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*Part Question*High Pessure Pump and Motor Assembly- 1988 Reatta


M-Tri

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Hi everyone. I just bought an '88 Reatta that seems to run great with everything except the brakes. I believe all it needs is a <span style="font-weight: bold">High Pressure Pump and Motor Assembly</span>. Does anyone know the best place to pick this up used or new?

any help is appreciated. thank you smile.gif

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I bought it in Florida

I think I got a good deal. I know it's a pretty rare car, so I want to make sure I can find the part before I bring it to a mechanic and have it sit in his garage while he runs through his contacts, haha.

thanks a lot for the help everyone. I'll be doing some reading. Reatta.net is a great resource and I really appreciate the link!

Any more info or advice would be greatly appreciated. I need to get this on the road ASAP

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One thing you will find is that the most common cause of the motor not running is the relay on the firewall, followed by the pressure switch followed by a blown fuse or wiring issue. The motor historically does not fail often unless abused.

If the motor is not running then it will be difficult to do the tests (you even need pressure for test 7 to work) but both the red and yellow lights should be on.

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M-Tri-

What everyone is trying to tell you albeit indirectly is they have doubts about your diagnosis of needing a new pump.

Take their advice and take the brake tests and post your results.

If in the end you do indeed need a new pump, it is an easy change-out with the simplest of hand tools and shouldn't take you more than 1/2 an hour if you were to attempt it yourself.

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Guest Bobby Valines

M-Tri just wanted to give you the heads up. Its important to use proper sentences and English here so that we can understand each other easily, after you have been here awhile you will understand why. Give us as much information as you can about everything you can think of don't think we will assume things the more information you can give us the better. Fill out your profile with your year and miles, city and state, someone here might live close to you. You will find the people here are the greatest and would like nothing more than to help each other to have the best running car on the block. Enjoy your reatta and welcome to our reatta forum. Hope you have as much fun here as I do.

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Hi M-Tri and welcome to the forum! Please do as others have suggested and take the brake test. Then report your results back to the forum.

If you are certain your pump motor will not run, take Barney's advice and jump straight to the motor with 12 volts to determine if the problem is in the motor or in the switches and relays that control voltage to the motor.

You might find some interesting reading on my website Reatta Owners Journal. It is a great place for new Reatta owners to visit. It has lots of information about repairing the Reattas

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rawja</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M-Tri-

What everyone is trying to tell you albeit indirectly is they have doubts about your diagnosis of needing a new pump.

Take their advice and take the brake tests and post your results.

If in the end you do indeed need a new pump, it is an easy change-out with the simplest of hand tools and shouldn't take you more than 1/2 an hour if you were to attempt it yourself.

</div></div>

Well I still actually haven't picked the car up yet. I payed for it a couple days ago and got the title. The car itself is still in Daytona about 20 miles away. I was planning to get it insured and have it towed to a mechanic's shop over there after I got an idea of what the part should cost me, and where I can get it. Then I was going to drive it back to my place.

Right now I'm basically going on a test drive and the info I got from the previous owner. He seemed very straight forward with me, and really seemed to put a lot of love into this car. When I test drove it the car felt and looked phenomenal except the brakes. I had to really jam on the brakes to even get a slow stop, and it felt like stepping on a brick in the dirt. The owner told me it was because it needed the part listed above, but I don't know if he ever actually gave it the brake test you're all referring to.

I think now instead of getting the car taken to a mechanic (which I can't afford) I'll just get it towed to my house and give it the tests.

I feel kind of stupid asking this, but would you still recommend I do these tests myself even though I have very little experience under the hood of a car, and was never particularly good with mechanics?

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From your description, the tests will not help because you are not getting any boost in the first place and most rely on having at least some.

Without boost you have a manual backup system that is on the front wheels only, why you push so hard for little braking.

Most likely it is not the motor, there is a fuse, relay, and pressure switch that are more likely to fail than the motor (unless abused). Section 5E in the service manual covers brakes and the ABS starts on 5E1 in the 89 service manual. Fig 5E5 shows the relay and fuse, 5E11 the pressure switch and motor. This section describes the physical components.

The electrical description is in section 8A-44. You (or your mechanic) should read through and become familiar with these sections before starting work. The Teves is subtly different from any other braking system.

If you do not have a service manual, it can be downloaded from http://reatta.net/docs.html (89 will work for 88) - you will need to register. I cannot emphasize enough that you need the manual to keep a Reatta healthy, some of the systems even after twenty years are not common..

Just to throw a motor at it is likely to either not fix the problem or to only work temporarily. You really need to follow the proper diagnostic procedures.

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It is obvious you have not even taken the time to go to Reatta.net and look at the brake test. I recommend you come back here when you have a car, some time, and a real desire to troubleshoot your car.

I can't speak for the other people here but I find it extremely hard to troubleshoot inaccessible cars with no hard data on what the problem might be. It is like throwing out a "what if" type question. You will get a dozen answers but none of them can possibly be correct without real data to analyze.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Don't take this to mean leave the forum. I mean for you to come back with more information so we can help you.</span>

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Brakes are the number one problem with these cars. Too many shops will start replacing parts without much diagnosis. It is much cheaper to spend the time to diagnose the problem rather than replacing parts. If you print out the brake test and take it with you, you can do the test in the P O's driveway. Post your results here and we can guide you along.

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I would not say "problem" so much as "concern", other than sensors (mostly front since turn with wheel) and accumulators (normal wear item), so long as you flush occasionally, they are quite reliable. Suspect it is more "fear of the unkown".

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is obvious you have not even taken the time to go to Reatta.net and look at the brake test. I recommend you come back here when you have a car, some time, and a real desire to troubleshoot your car.

I can't speak for the other people here but I find it extremely hard to troubleshoot inaccessible cars with no hard data on what the problem might be. It is like throwing out a "what if" type question. You will get a dozen answers but none of them can possibly be correct without real data to analyze.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Don't take this to mean leave the forum. I mean for you to come back with more information so we can help you.</span> </div></div>

I apologize. this has been an extremely hectic week for me. I am competing in a major grappling event this weekend and most of my focus has been on that, but I promise I am serious and really do appreciate all the help you guys have offered. I will be back with more info after I do the brake test.

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Okay, I did the reading and am trying the tests to the best of my ability.

First I did the troubleshooting by driving at 30mph and slamming on the brakes like an emergency stop. The car stopped but there was no lock, chatter, or anything like that.

I also noticed that the "Pressure Switch Connector" and the "Pump Motor Connector" were both disconnected by the Previous owner (presumably under direction of the mechanic at the Buick Dealership he brought it to). When I reattached these I re-ran the troubleshooting test above and the results were identical. The only thing that changed was that the RED brake light was now on in addition to the YELLOW ABS light.

Now I had some trouble doing the tests, but it could be because of my lack of experience with mechanics.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Test 1-</span> First off I can not here any pump running. Maybe I'm not sure what I'm listening for though. Is the sound very subtle and constant?

Second, the RED and YELLOW lights both turn on almost immediately when I start the car before I can even pump the pedal; however, after about 20-25 pumps the "ABS Low Pressure Brakes screen" comes up on the touch screen computer.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Test 2-</span> It does seem to get harder after about 60-70 pumps, but I think that may just be my leg getting tired. It did not get hard enough to stop me from continuing the way the EMERGENCY BRAKE does though. Am I just not pumping enough times?

Now because I can't really identify the sound of the PUMP it's difficult for me to continue with the tests. If anyone could describe exactly what I'm listening for, or offer some advice it would be greatly appreciated. I'm sorry for being the moron with a million questions and not a single clue, but I am trying.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: padgett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From your description, the tests will not help because you are not getting any boost in the first place and most rely on having at least some.

Without boost you have a manual backup system that is on the front wheels only, why you push so hard for little braking.

Most likely it is not the motor, there is a fuse, relay, and pressure switch that are more likely to fail than the motor (unless abused). Section 5E in the service manual covers brakes and the ABS starts on 5E1 in the 89 service manual. Fig 5E5 shows the relay and fuse, 5E11 the pressure switch and motor. This section describes the physical components.

The electrical description is in section 8A-44. You (or your mechanic) should read through and become familiar with these sections before starting work. The Teves is subtly different from any other braking system.

If you do not have a service manual, it can be downloaded from http://reatta.net/docs.html (89 will work for 88) - you will need to register. I cannot emphasize enough that you need the manual to keep a Reatta healthy, some of the systems even after twenty years are not common..

Just to throw a motor at it is likely to either not fix the problem or to only work temporarily. You really need to follow the proper diagnostic procedures.

</div></div>

I do have a manual that the previous owner gave me with the car. it's the big 1988 Buick Service Manual for the Reatta and the Riviera.

again, I hate to sound stupid, but what's the best way to hook up a charger directly to the pump to test it?

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Okay, I did the reading and am trying the tests to the best of my ability.

<span style="color: #3333FF">You can fix this problem if you will take it one step at a time in a logical manner. You must stay focused and follow instructions one at a time.</span>

I also noticed that the "Pressure Switch Connector" and the "Pump Motor Connector" were both disconnected by the Previous owner (presumably under direction of the mechanic at the Buick Dealership he brought it to). When I reattached these I re-ran the troubleshooting test above and the results were identical. The only thing that changed was that the RED brake light was now on in addition to the YELLOW ABS light.

<span style="color: #FF0000">The only reason I know a mechanic at a dealership would recommend disconnecting the pressure switch would be to decieve buyers by hiding the warning lights. Never take your car to that dealership.</span>

Now I had some trouble doing the tests, but it could be because of my lack of experience with mechanics.

Test 1- First off I can not here any pump running. Maybe I'm not sure what I'm listening for though. Is the sound very subtle and constant?

<span style="color: #3333FF">If you stand beside the car you should be able to hear the pump run. It is not very loud but it is not hard to hear. If you don't hear it running. Assuming the pump is not running, you should test the pump motor. Disconnect the wires connector from the pump. Apply 12 volts directly to terminal 854 on the pump with a wire from the positive side of the battery. Apply 12 volts to the motor side of the connector, NOT the wiring side. You will need to ground terminal 150 to the negative post on the battery. (see connector photo below) Report your results here and we will continue troubleshooting the problem.</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Careful! Don't short the hot (12volt Positive) wire to any ground. The wire will melt!</span>

post-52331-143138048595_thumb.jpg

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Also, do not run very long this way since the pressure switch is not there to limit the pressure. If the motor does start running (and you should feel the vibration in a second or two), that is enough.

In the meantime, study page 5E1-80 in the 88 manual, this is the wiring diagram of the pump and if it does run when connected directly, but not with the key on, shows what to check. The "relay bracket" all of the parts on the left mention is under the hood above the HVAC blower motor.

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  • 4 weeks later...

okay, sorry I managed to get a day to run these tests with a friend of mine who is a mechanic.

the pump did make noise when he hooked it up to a direct charge, the relay clicked when the hit that also, and all the fuses look good, but then he noticed that the pump and motor assembly is visibly damaged. here's a picture:

NewImage.jpg

part of it is fractured and coming off at the joint. do you think replacing this part would solve my problem?

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