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stude8

Where is this 1904 Peerless Green Dragon?

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the picture on the left is the first Green Dragon that Moorers raced in the Gordon Bennett race in Ireland in 1903. It was brought back to the factory and changes were made: radiator between the frame horns, aerodynamic hood, new wheels and tires. It still had the 40 HP T head engine with cylinders cast individualy. This is the car Barney Oldfield crashed in St. Louis and the car was destroyed on August 28, 1904. The car on the right is the next Green Dragon with the 60 HP 4 cylinder overhead valve engine, cylinders cast in pairs. Note the underslung frame and pointed radiator. This car was completed and raced on October 15, 1904. Barney raced this Dragon through 1905. In the winter 1905-1906 the next Green Dragon was built with the 90HP overhead valve engine. Barney won a few races with this car but in June 1906 Peerless didn't renew the contract with Barney and sold two race cars to him, the 90 HP Green Dragon and a 60 HP Blue Streak. We have no record of what happened to the 60 HP Green Dragon. It had crashed several times and may have been reworked into the 90 HP Dragon. I hope this will clearify some of the questions.

RHL

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I stand corrected. The first Green Dragon, 4 cylinder, 6 inch bore & 6 inch stroke is not a 7 or 17 liter engine. It calculates out to be 11.04 liter.

Diameter squared X length X .0034 = gallons .73 per cylinder X 4 = 2.92 gallons = 11.68 Qts

1 quart = .946 liter X 11.68 = 11.04 liter.

I had to go back to my old school books to figure this one out.

RHL

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It takes a good man to stand corrected, with all that math you don't need to apologize for any errors. Stude8

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For fans of 1904 Peerlesses. I recently got some new data about the car at the start of this post. It will take me awhile to put together, but it suggests it originally was a factory race car...was converted to a passenger car...then re-bodied as a race car.

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)

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That would be interesting. I have pictures and articles on most all of the Peerless race cars and it should be easy to cross reference. The Green Dragons were special built from the frame up for racing. It would have been difficult to convert one from racing to a standard model. There was the standard model 12, 1905 that had the Green Dragon engine and a couple of these were raced and called the Peerless Blue Streak and not Green Dragons. I believe the Lieberman Peerless could have been one of these if they can document that. The Crawford museum also has a 1905 Model 12 with the overhead valve engine with standard body.

I would like to see the history. RHL

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Some data coming in:

60 HP engine. 6 x 6 B&S. About 680 c.i.d. Overhead valve, hemi-type cross-draft set-up. Cast iron rear end carrier drilled for lightening. 4-speed transmission. No engine or chassis serial numbers, because it wasn't a production car.

The hands it may have passed through: Barney Oldfield(Peerless factory racing team member, America's first national sports hero)>Bill Long(boyhood friend of Oldfield, owner for 60 years)>Geoffry Pattenson(dealer)>Donald G. Meyer>(collector, dealer, vintage racer)>Arthur Lieberman(Chicago collector)...

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)

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Here are some more pictures of the Green Dragon with Barney Oldfield driving.

Grandpa

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post-52807-14313888904_thumb.jpeg

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Thanks, Grandpa for the pictures. Think of how futuristic that car must have looked in 1904. Kind of like a Bugatti Veyron today.

Green Dragon, I first heard of a pre-1973 background for this car when I found a video of the car from an Ormond Beach/Daytona Beach commemmorative event 5 or 10 years ago. A TV reporter was interviewing the driver of the race-bodied Peerless and asked what kind of car it was. He said it's a Peerless race car once driven by Barney Oldfield. The reporter then asked:"Who is Barney Oldfield?". The driver said something like:" If you don't know who he was you shouldn't be at this event!" and went on to say the car was found in an aircraft hanger in Ohio.

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)

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Great pictures Grandpa,

Are there any notations on the pictures? It is hard to say if this car is the 1905 60 HP or the 1906 90 HP Green dragon. They both looked similar. I would think that this would be the 60 HP that Barney set all the records with. This is the car that replaced the Dragon that Barney crashed at St.Louis.

RHL

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Hi The Green Dragon,

The above pictures that I posted are marked as 1905 in Chicago.

Grandpa

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On 2/7/2009 at 2:45 PM, stude8 said:

I questioned some Chicago area contacts and am told the owner of the 1904 Peerless in photos I posted from 1982 at that time was an Art Lieberman of Chicago.

I'd hate to think the theory here is the car in my photos was used to create a clone of the real Peerless Green Dragon racer?

Stude8

To answer any questions out there. Arthur Lieberman was the owner of the 1904 Peerless. It was sold in the early 1990's, I am his grandson, as for the car's whereabouts, I am not sure, If anyone does know I would be interested in finding out.  

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Hlieberman,

Thanks for looking at one of the older Peerlesss Forum threads.

 

 I maintain the Known Peerless Automobiles In Existence record. Whereabouts is easy: it's in Salt Lake City at the Price Museum of Speed. John Price is the owner. He was born in Germany, left in 1939, is involved in construction and real estate development, and was Ambassador to The Court of St. James about 2007. While he was U.S. Ambassador to Britain, he ran the Peerless in the London-to-Brighton Run, which I believe your grandfather did as well. They have a wonderful website: www.pricemuseumofspeed.org , with a recent photo of the Peerless. Also, look at Post #18 on this thread.

 

Jeff

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)

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