63's: How many still on the road?

[Guest buickriv63]

40 000 '63 Rivieras were made, but how many of them survived to this day? Any estimations? I suppose the procentage of survivors fairly high because those expensive "luxury-cars" were generally better maintained compared to cheaper models.

[Guest BJM]

At least 10%. More likely 5,000 to 6,000.

BUT, be cautioned - as this is in all shapes. Many many of these are in salvage yards (and 64's) and very few are getting restored today. Somewhat complex, with expensive parts, these cars usually take BUICK lover to do one. Otherwise, people start on them, then offer them for sale 1-2 years later and the cycle continues.

[jimtash]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BJM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At least 10%. More likely 5,000 to 6,000.

BUT, be cautioned - as this is in all shapes. Many many of these are in salvage yards (and 64's) and very few are getting restored today. Somewhat complex, with expensive parts, these cars usually take BUICK lover to do one. Otherwise, people start on them, then offer them for sale 1-2 years later and the cycle continues. </div></div>

'63 owner here and mine wasn't restored by me. I bought mine pretty much good to go with the original interior still intact and a respray. I've had to tackle some minor issues but nothing like a complete restoration would entail. The only major undertaking I intend to do is add factory A/C and that's it. Otherwise, I'm going to enjoy it.

In no way am I ever going to restore a car from the ground up. The money spent would be better put towards a car that is already finished IMO. Sure the initial money might be more but I figure the time and aggravation saved is more than worth it. And in today's market, there are some descent cars out there for not that much money. Probably even cheaper than taking on a restoration if everything is taken into consideration.

I still think a lot of these cars should be saved though. I'm not the person to do it and I know that as I'm limited by money and space. I just wish others who start these projects would realize it as well and let them go to owners that can do the job right. It saves the cars and parts in the long run as they aren't put on hold or left out to rust away.

[Guest buickriv63]

I bought my car also in fairly good condition: brakes done, re-sprayed etc. I'm more of those guys who enjoy the driving most... But still I'm amazed about the figures: only 5000-6000 '63 Rivieras left (estimation). Is this car getting rare?

[Guest BJM]

Pasi,

I'm no expert, but am a careful researcher of numbers. I came up with a formula several years ago and spent about 2 years in formulating my model. Cars from the 60's, you can figure about 5 to 10% of production remain. For just about any make and model, 10% left in ANY condition is a good round number. Take about 5% off for each decade after 20 years.

In this scenario, 4000 63 Rivieras remained around 1983. I think this number is low for this model, because it was recognized as a "classic" and modern masterpiece. It remained a desirable 2nd car because the styling - well - the styling still looks good so you can imagine in the 70's these remained around.

After this initial 20 year period, 20% of the 10% figure end up going to the salvage yard, eventually crushed, every 10 years. For this example, 800 more cars go to the salvage yard for the next 10 years. Many of these are parted and crushed.

Eventually a model like the 63 Riviera, now considered "collectible" bottoms out. A few still get crushed. I have seen or known about 3 getting crushed in the last 2 years in Iowa. They were in poor shape. 3 time 50 states = 150 cars right there, and this is Iowa, so in states like California, New York, etc, even more might have gone.

The 2 posts above highlight the problem. (And that's no indictment on those 2 collectors - in their own way they are preserving known good examples) but the trend will continue. In 2013 the landmark 63 Riviera will be 50 years old. In the next 4 years I would say maybe 10 63 Rivieras will receive high point restorations. (NOT BCA seniors but 350-375 point restorations)

I could be totally off base and I hope I am, but the trend is to do convertibles, muscle cars, sports cars, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc NOT 63-73 Buick Rivieras.

Cheers

[Guest musclecarfan65]

good question ... especially when you think of cars outside north america. i assume it will be impossible to get real figures. here in germany e.g. old foreign cars get their own individual official registration number ... without any connection between brands, car type etc. this means that i can not even request the exact numbers of 1965 buick riviera because our bureaucrats can not search for specific cars in their system (at least that's what they answered to me).

[lrlforfun]

OK Buick People: I personally have parted out the following Rivieras in my 57 Years.......

63 white custom w/leather and pw otherwise poverty. It was a running driving car that was 10 years old. It was just rough. I got it for $100. and I was fixing up a fully loaded black w/white leather. Sent to the crusher.

64 In 1977. Black on black, custom, loaded. Hit extremely hard in the back. I used everything on my 65 GS that was falling apart. Sold back to the wrecking yard.

65 In 2007. Turquoise w/white standard pw and a/c. I reluctantly paid $600. for it knowing I was to part it. This one had no motor and very rusty 1/4 panels, package shelf, trunk and back window. I have several 65's and it was a painful but financially sound decision. The rusted shell was all that was left on this one! It went to Pick your *^&$.

64 Silver w/silver all poverty. Came with another one (next paragraph). Motor laying by it's side in the rain since 1983, trunk, 1/4 panels, package shelf, floor pans, trunk swiss cheese. It laid in the forest and the rats had completely filled the trunk up with acorns and debris which decomposed leaving delightful potting soil. I have harvested a ton of goodies from this one. It's on the ranch.

64 White/black standard, a/c, pw. Pretty rough yet I think I need to leave this one complete. It's got it's share of rust but it's straight and the drive train is all there. The rest of it is surprisingly complete. I'm leaving it alone. It's on the ranch.

64 beige w/saddle custom, a/c. Straight, unmolested. It was taken out of daily service in 1980 and sat in Sebastapool, Ca. a very rainy area. It green housed and the interior suffered. Trunk and left 1/4 panel are unhappy. Because it's such a boarder line case I am leaving it alone too. It's at the ranch.

So you see there is an accounting for a half a dozen. I wonder how a professional statistician would come up with accurate numbers? Mitch

[Guest buickriv63]

To NIMROD:

Yes, that's a whole different issue: how many '63 Rivieras there are outside US. I suppose officially imported early Rivieras are extremely rare here in Europe. My car too was imported here in Finland as a used car (1990).

[steelman]

As a follow up to lrlforfun, I happened across an even dozen right before Christmas. One '63, 5 64's and 6 65's, including one rough GS. All have been parked in a field since about 1976 (newest tag on them) and have not been touched. Most are complete, but being stored outside for thirty years is starting to take it's toll. Took two days to track down the owner, but he wouldn't even talk to me about these. NOT FOR SALE! DON'T CALL AGAIN! was the sum of our conversation. Breaks my pea-pickin' heart. But I haven't given up yet.

Steve Owens

'63 lo and slo

Oklahoma City (my cars)

Las Vegas (me)

[tim63riv]

Steve,

I've never been able to understand people like that, they aren't going to EVER do anything with the cars, yet they won't sell to anyone who would save them. They'll kick the bucket and the heirs will sell for scrap and everyone will loose out. Makes me sick!

Take Care,

Tim

[lrlforfun]

OK Steve: I think I spoke to a guy about 10 or so years ago about these Rivieras. I think they were somewhere in Texas. All very rough.

If my memory serves me correctly the person I spoke with was not the owner but a middle sort of guy. I also recall that these 11 or 12 cars were as rough or maybe rougher than mine described in my previous thread. And that was 10 years ago!

A lot of people think these cars are gold never to find out that they are worth only a little better than average scrap.

Mitch.

[Guest BJM]

Tim,

Correct - the heirs are just waiting to scrap these cars. A person would have to be in near constant contact with the heirs and money talks, but we may not be there at that exact moment.

There have been posts about this subject on all AACA forums - cars there one day, gone the next because an ornary owner passes.

It's hard - but if I had this fellow's address and name, I believe I can get him to respond - favorably. If someone wants to get me his name and address, I will give it a shot. (PM me)

It might sound like bragging, it's not - I am a professional writer by trade and I also recognize that "instant" personal contact communications, such as a knock on a front door - creates uncomfortable reactions. When a person is asked to make a decision based on a brief personal contact such as the knock at the door, many times they react protectively.

I have had a lot of success over the years - writing letters to folks who I want something from - they appreciate the format, the personal attention and usually the story behind it. So get me the address and we will see if we can "save" these cars or some of them. Just an offer.

[wildcat1562]

here is the one i rebuilt for my uncle

Greg

[Guest musclecarfan65]

i remember the closing phrase of the TV series the american muscle car: "and remember ... don't crush 'em ... restore them." what a pity that some of the great old cars will be not existing anymore in the future ... due to global economic crisis the government pays 2500euros for each crushed car which is older than 9 years so that people start to buy new cars ... crazy.

[Guest sergiu]

Theese evaluations are valid for the '65 model too ? I always thought that about half of the cars made in those years still exist. Guess I was way too optimistic...

I just bought one and it should leave the US any day now, directed to Rome,Italy. I'm glad I did it because it was love at first sight. I'll treat it like a baby.