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1923 Packard Six brake lining relief.


W_Higgins

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I'm hoping someone with Packard literature or documentation that I don't have can answer this question -- was there a relief of about four-to-five inches cut into the service brake lining at the rear anchor side (180 degrees from the split side)?

I have a customer who had his brakes relined prior to my working on the car. He said until they were relined they never squealed. The shop doing the work ruined the lining with goo in an effort to rid the car of the noise. He brought it to me and I cleaned and relined everything to get back to square one. Some things have worked to reduce the noise, but it's still not gone. I was reading my Lincoln Model L service bulletins last night and Lincoln's with this same design of external contracting service brake were made with this relief and I thought perhaps it's a detail that was lost on the Packard when the work was first performed.

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I dont know anything about the cut relief, but it's possible that the previous (non-squeeky) linings used a different material and that is why they didnt squeek as much as new linings. There are different types of lining materials with different friction co-efficents. Lots of the original linings used asbestos.

Just something to think about.

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I have had a 1923 Packard six for about 25 years now and I have relined the rear external contracting brakes twice in that time without the squealing problem you are having. I just checked my linings and they are the full length of the outer metal band. The only information in the parts book for this model is :

"1 3/4" x 1/4" use prior to rear axle No. U16764

2" x 1/4" after rear axle no. U16763(prior to vehicle No 50525)"

Mine has 2" wide linings and of course it is simply a matter of matching the lining width to the band width, no help!

I have another book that gives lining sizes and lengths for most cars but it starts at the 1924 - 4 wheel brake Packards, again no help.

I would have thought that using hard linings would be the most likely course but you say you have the softest linings.

I would like to help you to solve this problem so if there is any detail you would like me to check on mine just let me know. David Australia

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Thanks for the reply, David. It's been awhile since I've had the bands off, but I think they were of the 2-1/4 variation.

My old time brake man recommended the soft lining, and I've used the very same lining when redoing other large external contracting brake cars with no problems. The owner purchased another set of wheels with drums, but I've not yet had a chance to compare thicknesses. It may be the current drums are a little bell shaped and the irregular contact is making the drums sing. Hate to turn them, though. Not much there to take off to begin with and having turned a set of these before it is kind of difficult. This set is not the worst I've seen.

I'll keep you posted as things progress. Thanks for the offer of help. Below I've included the text from the Lincoln service bulletins I mentioned above. It was interesting for me to stumble across this as it was something I was considering doing even before I read it.

P1140063-vi.jpg

P1140066-vi.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I doubt that contracting band brakes were designed or dimensioned to allow for much wear on the drums. And the drum material, steel,is not ideal for braking. You will recall that the braking performance of the V16 Cadillac was substantially improved when they changed from steel drums to cast iron. But you haven't got room to make strong cast iron drums for contracting band brakes.

However, what I have done on a number of jobs is rebuild worm steel drums with a metal-spray coating which provides similar braking efficiency to sg cast iron. I use a wire-feed gun coating of Metco Spraysteel LS, which is a machineable carbon steel with about 5% molybdenum content. It is work-hardening and very durable; but you have to machine it very slowly and carefully, lest it harden while you are machining. You can use modern lining materials with it. Years ago a friend with a little English 2cyl Perry talked me int rebuilding the brake drums, which I was reluctant to do because you could see daylight through them in places. He used modern cast iron for linings, but the drums have not worn. (He had promised he would use modern material for linings.) If you do rebuild drums with metal spray, it is probably smart to use slightly thinner linings, (as you dont have to rivet them now), and finish with more thickness of the drums for strength and rigidity.

The other smart trick is to cut 45 degree grooves in the lning surface about 2 inches apart, so the brakes shed water when it is wet. If you angle these so the rotationtends to shed most water towards the centreline of the car, then you will have less cleaning of the wheels.

Ivan Saxton

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I enjoyed your post, Mr. Saxton. Thanks for sharing your technique. I'm familiar with the process and have used Eutectic-Castolin powder spray in other applications, but never heard from anyone with experience using metal-spray on brake drums. I'll keep it in mind as we examine our options.

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Please be sure to use a wire-feed system coating, either electric arc Metco which feeds two wires, and the molten droplets are propelled onto the work by compressed air; or oxy-acetylene gun like Metco 12E, where the wire is fed through the flame by an air turbine, and the air also propells the molten spray as with the arc system. The powder feed systems put a lot more heat into the job, and with a brake drum you will induce all sort of stress and distortion you could imagine. I can give . To give you an idea what you can do with this lower temperature process, (but being careful), I made a batch of blackwood walking sticks with "silver" tops for a local stage production of My Fair Lady. This was aluminium sprayed direct on the wood spinning in the lathe, and then taped and polished. I was able to avoid charring the adjacent wood. A couple of years ago I made a few for corporate gifts for the BawBaw Shire Council. The Victoria State Governor paid money into the system so the one given to him became his property. I was informed that one presented to a delegation from Brunei was selected by the Sultan. You can do useful and delicate work with metal spray.

I would emphasise that the coating you need is Metco Spraysteel LS, with significant molybdenum content. It works well; and you should have ready access to someone with the equipment and expertise to do it for you. I am unfortunately too far away to help you. Ivan Saxton

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