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Poor GM quality


Guest Reatta1

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Guest Reatta1

Well, the poor quality of GM products finaly caught up to me! My 93 Regal, only 16 years old and 170k on the odometer, let me down the other day. Well, actualy, let my wife down. On her way to bible study Thursday morning the lousy thing blew a radiator hose!! Imagine that. Guess if GM's hoses won't last more than 16 years and 170k, I'm just going to have to go out and buy one of them Prius's that Dave is so fond of. Lousy GM products!!! **^#@%*^ wink.gif

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Guest sintid58

I don't care what anyone thinks, I will put the Quality and workmanship on my 2003 Le Sabre up to anything that comes out of JA PAN INC or Europe.

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One of my windshield wipers bit the dust on 'Big Red' in the rain in May 2008 on my 2006 GMC 2500HD, 4x4, Duramax Crew Cab, it was only 2.5 years old, with only 16K Miles! I guess they only are supposed to last a year or so anyway, I win, built "Flint TOUGH", might order an '09 depending what happens in the next 2 months, otherwise, it's mine for life/forever! cool.gif

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That reminds me the starter on my 65 Skylark crapped out just as I was on my way to a show. Only 40 years old at the time!!! G.M. sucks.

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What is it about full size vans??? I have a 2001 Chevy express with 61 + thousand on it. The Distributor draws mosture in the spring/ summer making it hard, and sometimes impossible to start. I knocked out the plug as per the updated in the replacment instructions with only marginal results..... The driver side electric window sometimes locks up in the down position and won't return with out some knocks upside the door, and just recently it left me along side of the road with a bad fuel pump. frown.gif No wonder GM is in trouble! These vehicles should go 100,000 miles before these kind of problems show up. Goes to show that they don't build them like the 89, 90 Suburbans with 350 CID and 4 speed automatics, or the 76 and 78 Nova's I had with 250 CID 6 cylinder motors and 3 speed automatic transmissions. I do belive the older vehicles were built with more reliability. Seems like I never have any luck with any full size van no matter what manufacturer it came from. Maybe I always ended up with a lemon? Up until recently it was the most important vehicle and needed to be reliable as it is handicaped accessable and was used to transport my two handicapped children. The children no longer live with me, so in the rank of vehicles the Van has been demoted. crazy.gif Dandy Dave!

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The older vehicles were not built with quite the emphasis on light weight and fuel economy. Stainless steel cables inside of thinner vinoplastic casings on the window regulators rather than solid metal "slabs" with those dang rollers that would "have problems" after 30 years or so of use, yet many of the newer designs didn't make it out of the basic warranty on the BACK doors of Tahoes. Sometimes it was the cables and other times it was the motor itself.

SOMETIMES, even the earlier designs would unplug themselves due to the fact they were not adequately secured to the inner door structure . . . and THAT happened on some 1980s Chevy pickups. Tighten things back up, plug it back in, and it had no other problems--period. Now, with pop rivets rather than bolts/nuts, that problem does not exist as it did.

I agree that GM (AND everybody else) built some bullet-proof vehicles that would do as well as many imports in long-term durability . . . just that few kept their GM cars long enough back then to find this out. Still, there were things that tended to motivate buyers to look elsewhere the next time around.

One hallmark of the USA auto industry was DIVERSITY of product and equipment levels thereof. If you wanted it, you could find somebody to build it pretty much as desired. Unlike the imports that had fewer build variations AND you had to wait for one to appear somewhere before you could buy it. "Get on a list" rather than place a "special order" for what you wanted.

Now, the USA brands have followed the import brands in their "fewer build variations" AND into a hole of sorts. Bland color schemes and little ornamentation, inside and OUT, have led us into a bigger hole of sorts. Few "stand-out" styled vehicles which reflect their rich brand heritage, it seems--even if the paint colors look good, the sheet metal they are on don't show them off very well. Fewer models and makes make each vehicle line more important to be "wins" rather than otherwise. The fruits of downsizing to "save money" have finally hit!

Yep, they don't build them like the used to.

Regards,

NTX5467

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, the USA brands have followed the import brands in their "fewer build variations" AND into a hole of sorts. Bland color schemes and little ornamentation, inside and OUT, have led us into a bigger hole of sorts. Few "stand-out" styled vehicles which reflect their rich brand heritage, it seems--even if the paint colors look good, the sheet metal they are on don't show them off very well.</div></div>

Bravo, NTX!

My sentiments exactly. The colors are horrible, the chrome, nonexistant, the vehicles are just plain bland.

I bought my last GM pickup, an '05, in solid white. I had a friend doll it up with graphics. The pu is an attention getter most everywhere. I have people asking me which dealer I got it from. confused.gifsmile.gif

Now, with the downturn in the economy, I'm considering purchasing a replacement, but have you seen the new GM pickups? Who's idea was it to put those ugly fender accents on them? What size tires and wheels do they expect someone to purchase to make the appearance practical?

I can't stand it! I wrote Chevrolet when they built those "cat's eyes" front panels on their earlier pickups. What? They didn't fire that dumby? They let him go on and ruin the fenders as well?

Sorry to rant. I'll save for my money for a later date and purchase.

I don't buy ugly vehicles or marry ugly women! smile.gif

Wayne

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I agree. It seems that whoever chooses the colors for the new cars and trucks do their best to try to match the color of the pavement so that the cars will blend in. Stylingwise, I think most of the tail-lights and truck-lids are interchangable from one car to another.

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Guest palosfv3

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: supersix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree. It seems that whoever chooses the colors for the new cars and trucks do their best to try to match the color of the pavement so that the cars will blend in. Stylingwise, I think most of the tail-lights and truck-lids are interchangable from one car to another. </div></div>

Automotive colors are chosen following the latest fashion trends. Yes, guys they cater to the women and anyone thats in the paint industry knows women do all the color matching and coordinating. All one has to do is to look back at what was available in the era of choice to see the evidence. OEMs routinely have people at the spring fashion shows in Paris and NYC.

Todays cars share doors, deck lids and the like just like they did in the past. 55,56, 57 GM, Ford and Chrysler models shared doors, glass ,lids ,suspensions and floor pans.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palosfv3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Todays cars share doors, deck lids and the like just like they did in the past. 55,56, 57 GM, Ford and Chrysler models shared doors, glass ,lids ,suspensions and floor pans. </div></div>

I'm speaking of how the tail lights hug the sides of the trunklid on probably 50% of cars from ALL manufacturers. I didn't mean that they were actually interchangable. I was being facetious. The same is true of the front ends. Take a look at the ads in the newspaper. Probably 50% have the same grille shape with the wrap-around headlights. The same styling trend (the plastic, molded look) has also been adopted in other products, such as televisions and SLR cameras.

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Cars are simply products of their times and are all subject to the same prevailing aesthetics and technologies of their day.

I know this is going to sound like heresy but other than particularly special models I cannot reliably ID 30s-40s-50s cars from a distance. They all "look the same" to me. Or more succinctly, the cars of each era look similar to most the other cars in that era.

I can correctly ID just about any model from the 1980s to present to within a year or two from a hundred yards though.

Just depends on when you're from I guess.

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Guest Reatta1

Well Rawja, being an 'Old Timer', I can tell you this. When I was in my teens and early 20's I could tell you what make a car was from a block away just from the sound it made. Back in those days every make had a pretty distinct sound and the styling was different enough between makes that you could tell what make it was, visually, from quite a distance. Course my sight and hearing was a bunch better then too. And we are talking the 50's, so if you have any familiarity with cars of those years, well ------- you would know what I mean. smile.gif

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You guys have been hitting on some points that Detroit (and Tokyo) have been needing to hear for years.

Colors--They look like they were chosen by the National Funeral Directors Association. Or, they are a modified version of Henry Ford's idea; you can have any color you want as long as it is gray, silver, dove gray, dark gray, dark silver, midnight silver, dorian gray, gray fog, silver frost, or silver gray.

Shapes -- yeah, yeah, we ALL know they are tweaked to get that last one-tenth of a mile per gallon out of the car, but now EVERYONE has cars that get 30 MPG or better, except for one little problem. You can't get them off the dealer's lots. So, now, they all get the same mileage--zero--while they are sitting unsold.

Chrome -- when did chrome get to be a dirty word? Not too long ago, if you saw a car with no chrome, you knew it was a taxi, rental car or unmarked police car. And, those terms were NOT complimentary. Anyone who bought a Ford Custom or a Chevy Biscayne was either buying it for business use or just wanted the cheapest new car they could get. Now, six airbags is considered more important than flash; of course, as mentioned above, once you take off the ornamentation and accent chrome, you get bland cars that don't sell. Maybe it should be the Toyota Biscayne instead of the Toyota Camry?

Oh wells, the people in Detroit aren't targeting to selling cars to anyone over 45 these days anyway.

Joe

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reatta Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .....gray, silver, dove gray, dark gray, dark silver, midnight silver, dorian gray, gray fog, silver frost, or silver gray. </div></div>

Joe, I think you might have missed "Pavement Gray," and to liven things up, "Brown-Gray", and "Purple-Brown".

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Larry,

Yeah, I love 'pavement gray.' Especially at dusk or sunrise, when a car is headed toward you out of a shadow....

Talk about stealth.....

Maybe I should also add "72 month gray" and "84 month gray" since that is how long some people are financing these boring gray boxes.....

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Guest imported_Thriller

You forgot pewter (GM colour). When I was at the lot in the spring of 2000, my sales guy told me how it changed colour somewhat depending how the light hit it and that it was the most popular truck colour. My response to that was that I didn't particularly like the colour (I don't mind silvers and some grays, but that pewter didn't turn my crank - it was almost brown) and that I'd rather have a unique colour that stood out a bit more.

In the end I got to order my truck...I went with the green, with the model that had some chrome and chromed steel wheels. It arrived...one of the other sales guys wanted me to get it off the lot in a hurry - he'd ordered one the same colour with alloy wheels for another customer and he didn't want his customer to see my truck, which looked sharper.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never understood the "pewter" color...definitely more gold/brown than any pewter I've ever seen. </div></div>

Maybe you folks have never seen well tarnished pewter? I think there is an old cup around my mother's house somewhere that my father found on the farm in an old stone wall many years ago. My grandfather, who delt in antiques for many years, said it was from the Revolution era and that it was pewter. We just left it alone and never polished it, and it is quite brown. Dandy Dave!

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Dave highlighted something that I don't think anyone has understood since the days of Harley Earl and his former students of style all retired from GM.

Who wants to buy a $30,000 truck or car that is the same color as a 200-year old antique?

Derek mentioned ordering a truck the way he wanted it in HIS preferred color. When it arrived, the sales rep wanted it gone because it LOOKED BETTER than at least one other truck????? The crazy thing is, this dealer had TWO customers special order trucks in that color. WHY weren't there other trucks on the lot in that color?

I will give several of the Chevy dealers here in San Antonio credit for the way they ordered some trucks a few years ago. They special-ordered several trucks in a burnt-orange metallic color. It didn't show up on the Web site or in the catalogue; it was probably a special paint for a commercial company. But, the dealers ordered it because it was a very, very close match for...ta da!...the University of Texas Longhorns! (You know, the team that beat BOTH of the teams in the so-called BCS championship game?)

So, there IS proof that GM can paint cars and trucks in an interesting, popular color...even if it is by accident.

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Yep.

Past interior colors: dark blue, light blue, medium blue, black, red, burgundy, off-white, pearl white, white with black carpet, white with color-coordinated carpet, tan, brown, light green, dark green, medium green, two-tone tan/brown, two-tone gray/silver, two-tone gray/black, special anniversary colors and packages (blue and tan, for example)

Today: 90% of cars: japanese plastic gray, 5% of cars, tan, 5%, black or dark grey.

Those were the days........

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Guest Reatta1

Just a thought on your color scheme comments. We wouldn't want to overwhelm the fabric manufacturers with all those choices. And the upholsterers would go crazy trying to put all those combinations together. They are trying to reduce the cost of production so how do we dare demand our own choice in color schemes? And who would want to pay that added cost? And what would that extra coxt be? What could we be thinking? Oh my! I can't deal with all this. I think I need to go to my Zen class. confused.gifwink.gif

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Guest Skyking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 'Reatta1'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Rawja, being an 'Old Timer', I can tell you this. When I was in my teens and early 20's I could tell you what make a car was from a block away just from the sound it made. Back in those days every make had a pretty distinct sound and the styling was different enough between makes that you could tell what make it was, visually, from quite a distance. Course my sight and hearing was a bunch better then too. And we are talking the 50's, so if you have any familiarity with cars of those years, well ------- you would know what I mean. smile.gif </div></div>

If you think about it, you could do the same with hubcaps too. Put 100 hubcaps in a row from the 50's and you could probably identify 90 of them. Try that with todays wheels. You couldn't guess 2 out of 100.

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Reatta1, yes, those manufacturers only have us in mind cutting down the options on paint and interior colors, and with all that decreased labor on their part, I, like everyone, have noticed how much cars have decreased in price over the last 20-30 years.. they're just giving them away now!!!!! crazy.gif..B

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I've said, for at least 10 years, that the auto companies are getting our mindset to accept 1 or 2 different colors. When they have reached this, they can start using a plastic composite body which they won't have to paint. Sort of a mudbrown-gray color and everyone will love it. A "far-fetched exaggeration" that it started out to be?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think about it, you could do the same with hubcaps too. Put 100 hubcaps in a row from the 50's and you could probably identify 90 of them. Try that with todays wheels. You couldn't guess 2 out of 100. </div></div>

Modern hub caps...Oh yeah you can buy those at Walmart. One size fits all....well almost... laugh.gif Dandy Dave!

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The funny thing about business is that you suceed when you offer something your competitor doesn't. So, in an age when most car companies offer tan and gray interiors, it would seem to be a no-brainer to offer more choices and trump your competitors.

Of course, most of us in this forum remember the tri-color interiors of the Impalas, Roadmasters, Invictas, Bonnevilles and other high-end prestige cars of the late 50's to mid-60's. Granted, the high-end convertible and GS or SS coupe brought people into the showroom, but they usually left with a more practical 4-door mid-trim sedan or wagon.

But then again, having a prestige car (convertible) to bring people into the showroom so you can sell them what they need is another concept lost to most makes these days.

Nowdays, everyone acts as if it is all about 12 air bags, 15 cupholders, a DVD player, a 4 or 5-star crash rating finaced for 0% interest with 30 MPG (22 MPG in a station wagon/SUV) and a 'green' rating, in any color as long as it is a shade of dark gray or silver....and foreign.

I guess styling doesn't matter to people today.....

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I saw a recent add for a Mercury (Montaineer?) that had two-tone black and white "bucket" seats. That looked sharp! Also, Mazda has a fabric right now that is eerily reminiscent of my 55's grey patterned cloth with black "horseshoe" fabric surrounding it. Also cool in my opinion. Two-tone seats are still around in foreign and domestic brands. I'd still rather have tan leather than blue velour. blush.gif

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Mike,

Thanks for the update. Hopefully, this means more choices are coming in car interiors.

As for your preference, the point is, it would be great if you (and everyone else) could CHOOSE if you want tan leather or blue velour. Or, tan velour or blue leather! The point is, the choices are being made FOR us.

And, of course, no one IS using velour--of any color. What most call cloth seat covers these days look and feel like recycled double-knit slacks from the 1970's era.

Joe

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A friend has been mixing and selling automotive paints for 40 years. He says that formulas for the current paints have much more black making the finished product look dull and dirty. Have an old car show at any auto dealer and at any distance the old cars really pop compared to the new cars due to the brighter colors and of course more chrome.

Willie

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Guest Reatta1

Doesn't anybody here remember how Henry Ford advertised the Model T? 'You can have it in any color, as long as it's black'. I guess now it's 'you can have it in any color, as long as it's some shade of grey'. Ho Hum sleep.gif

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