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The Japaneese


lrlforfun

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OK Buick People; You heard it from Mitch. Just my theory now..........GM eventually will be taken over by the Japanese. If GM had what it took they would still be in trouble but not on the verge of going under.

The Japanese are the only people capable of turning GM around and making it profitable again. Our country will reap tremendous long term benefits from this.

Maybe I can start buying new GM cars with the same confidence as I have with my Accord. I would buy everything American made if the products were good.

Mitch

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Mitch,

I normally keep the hair on the back of my neck rather calm, but I take GREAT exception to your statement about "buy everything American if the products were good".

My daily driver is a Flint-made 1997 Buick LeSabre with over 265,000 miles! Many of those miles were racked up while towing a 5'X 8' utility trailer loaded with sound equipment, since I'm a professional disc jockey by trade.

This AMERICAN MADE vehicle has not been particularly pampered. Just routine maintenance and parts replacement as required due to high mileage. It stays outside during Michigan winters which, I might add, are just a tad rougher than those experienced in Hayward, CA. It has NEVER failed to start, even at 10 below zero!

The sound equipment is also 95% AMERICAN MADE. The only time I purchase otherwise is because it's simply not available. When performing a gig in front of several thousand people, nothing but the most dependable equipment is acceptable. Some of my AMERICAN MADE microphones are over 20 years old, have been used at hundreds of performances, and have NEVER failed! Same with the amps and speakers.

Mitch, I certainly hope you continue to enjoy your Accord.

Nothing personal, but if you should ever visit my home please do me a favor and DO NOT park it in my driveway!

I was AMERICAN MADE, and I firmly believe in buying AMERICAN MADE. Every time I'm forced to buy a Japanese or Chinese product I have a sick feeling in my stomach.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Bob Leets

Flint, MI

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Mitch

It is quite evident that you have bought into the myth that "if the foreigners built it , it MUST be good" At the present time Toyota ,Nissan and Honda have recalls on their cars and trucks.

GM is building cars that get better fuel economy than many of the foreign cars , but public perception is still tainted by the cars built in the early 70s by the big three

It is just now coming to light that the Chinese have been sending bad products here for years and are just now being called to task.

I still believe in "America First" and will do everything in my power to keep it that way.

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From the February 2009 issue of Consumer Reports, probably one of the most Asian-friendly pubs out there:

"Ford now offers several cars with reliability "on par with Japanese models" and says it is now "in front of the class."

Newer GM models also have performed well in Consumer Reports' testing, but the magazine said "the reliability of some still falls short."

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090106/AUTO01/901060332/1148/AUTO01

Translated, that means Ford and GM are probably better than the foreign makes once you filter out the anti-U.S. bias of Consumer Reports.

As for the cars, add mine to the list; 2000 Buick Park Avenue Ultra with 175,000 miles; uses NO oil between changes, NEVER left me stranded or failed to start, ever. And, I have SMOKED a '57 Chevy AND a '67 Mustang off the line without even turning the A/C off.

And, one more thing; the Japanese makes are having sales problems here and in other countries as well. This situation is NOT limited to the U.S.

Joe

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I think Mitch is just trying to provoke. This could be another mega thread. I'm into old cars. Occasional posts about the modern state of affairs is OK I guess but to what end?

Mitch, what we are seeing is a blip on the map of the automobile history. This matter will work itself out.

The one main concern I have is if the companies go bankrupt, then it would be awful hard to start a modern car company "from scratch".

Back at the turn of the century when we had no government intrusion, no mandates, oversight - a car company could be created in a garage (and many were). Many failed. Some grew slowly.

Now, Cerebus bought a car company so there will be people with enough money I guess- but starting from scratch is a whole different animal.

We have historical precedence. Kaiser-Frazer and Tucker mainly. K-F had a the resources of Henry J. Kaiser behind them, government loans and guarantees and Willow Run. And they still struggled.

I believe that we should not let the companies fail but I am anti-union. I think the sweetheart deals like the health care for life and if you get laid off you still get paid - those days must be over.

I am conservative in my politics but maybe it is time for better health care ala Canada. This is part of the sweet heart deal of the union. Transfer that to the government.

I read where new union workers get $14 per hour. Come on!. I don't believe that. 1st of all, there is such a pool of laid off UAW workers that "new hires" is oxymoronic. Car companies would need to rehire all the laid off workers before untrained new hires could start. 2nd of all, the benefits are pretty good for new hires.

I know my total package of compensation is about double my hourly rate. I have a 401k - so should the Union (they should have to put some of their salary in) At my current rate our company "retirement calculator" estimated I could last about 4 years after age 67 retirement before my retirement "nest egg" would be depleted.

Under the current union contract, they get a pension, social security and health care for life for them and their spouse.

When you have health care for life, you live a more comfortable retirement. I will have to work part time until I am 75 probably.

I doubt I will ever buy Japanese. I own and drive a 2004 Pontiac Bonneville and my truck is 71 Chevy 3/4 ton. But GM needs to lower it's costs and quit burying it's head in the UAW sand. Close plants. Cut white collar salaries.

A lot of Japanese executives and white collar are humble and appreciative of their positions. They are smart and competitive. In America, I don't see it.

The current "muscle car" trend is a good example. Like the SUV's they catered to the baby boomers and soccer mom suburbanites. So did Toyota with the SUV's, but Toyota's line up is so broad there are appealing vehicles to a lot of groups.

As halo cars the "muscle cars" miss the mark - mainly the Challenger and Camaro. The Mustang is leaner and a bit more timely.

Chrysler had some niche cars - like the PT Cruiser (economical and fun but different) [infinitely customizeable] but also the less efficient cars like the Viper and that 'hot rod'.

I don't understand where the car guys went. The gasoline in their veins guys. Where is Bill Mitchell's son?

Why do they have to wait for the best talent to "bide their time"? Why not promote a 26 year old with talent to run GM Design. Harley was pretty young when Alfred Sloan tapped him to bring GM styling into the modern era.

BMW did it with Chris Bangle a few years ago and dragged BMW styling kicking and screaming into the new century.

Bryan

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Hear! Hear! My parents have owned GM Cars their whole lives and would never ever even drive anything else, plus the fact that at one time 3 of their 5 kids worked for GM, 2 of still do! They have had problems, but nothing, enough to make them change their minds. My Dad served in the Army in Japan and Korea in the early '50s, he would pass by a JJ (He called Japanese Junk) in the parking lot at IBM were he worked if they needed help even if their JJ would not take them home. But if it was a US built car he would help them out. I like, Bob and the Old Guy would rather not buy anything not made here, but like said sometimes you have no choice, my jeans are made in Mexico, my sneakers in China, but my cars are made in the USA, and not Canada or Mexico, my truck was made in Flint, MI, the company truck I am now driving was made in Shreveport, LA, with an engine made in Flint, MI, but it was designed by Isuzu, Japanese, and my co-workers and I can see the difference, and we don't like it, but that's the life we have been given! Until we (USA) get our act together and understand what our goverment and companies have done to us with Free Trade Agreements that don't match the rest of the world, we let them here, they don't let us sell there, I don't see much changing, $1.54 for regular last week, $1.84 Monday, $1.99 today, here we go again, just when light truck sales were picking up, who in the hell is in charge anyway???? Not the American Public, who used to rule the world, that's for sure. Enough RANT! Beer for everyone, oh no, they are owned by Europeans and South Africa now too! Guess we'll drink NY and Michigan Wine instead, duh! Or back to Bourban, Jack and Beam instead of Scotch made in Scotland and bottled in IL! EH! or Canadian Whiskey at least made in NA!

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Guest Skyking

Personally, I don't know how this thread got this far.................... mad.gif If I started it, it would have got scrapped first post!

Is this the way California people think?

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Guest Reatta1

Gotta add my 2 pennies here too about GM cars. I have a 93 Buick Regal coupe that I bought with 32k on the odometer. It now has just shy of 170k. I have never done a tune up on it but always get it serviced at 3k mile imtervals. The only things I've ever had to replace on it were brakes, an alternator and serpentine belt. It still will give me 30+ to the gallon on the open road and run circles around all those Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans all the while purring like a kitten. The idea that GM builds poor quality cars is baloney. Our Park Avenue is approaching 100k and although it doesn't get quite as good gas mileage as the Regal, it still has been a very dependable car in the two years we've had it. Same story with my Reatta. Most comfortable road car I've EVER driven (and I've driven a LOT of different cars) and has never given me any trouble.

BUY AMERICAN

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Guest Dans 77 Limited

Sorry Mitch Im just not buyin it. Right now my every day fleet consists of a 16 year old Chevy Truck and a 02 Impala with over 100K on it. The truck is reliable as can be. It ALWAYS starts, it ALWAYS runs. Its a 93 and has belonged to me then my Dad then back to me again since I bought it originally in 1995. In that time we have spent less than a thousand dollars on repairs in this truck. I think its had 1 clutch and one hydraulic clutch reservoir. Oh and a battery ......... in 14 years. Not too shabby. The Impala still runs and rides like a brand new car. The paint still gleams , all the options still work (Same for the truck and its pretty loaded for a 93 truck) The impala doesnt squeak or rattle. Upkeep on the Impala has been at a reasonable cost for as many miles and as much abuse that has been put on that car. Its been wrecked twice under my ownership and Ive walked away both times. After the second wreck the car still ran and I drove it for 2 months until I had to fix it for inspection.

In the past I owned 2 GMC wreckers that had well over 400K apiece on them. The best car I ever owned was a 77 Impala that had 116K on it the day I bought it. It had close to 200K on it 6 years later when I sold it to someone I used to know . He drove it for 2 years after that, then when it did finally die the 250K plus 305 V8 went into yet another car and as far as i know that car is still on the road. Just another bulletproof , indestructable AMERICAN car.

Youre NEVER going to convince me that the Japanese make a better product...... NEVER!

Dan

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I'm with all of you in standing up for the quality of American-built vehicles. My daily driver LeSabre is turning-over 200,000 miles without problems, and my wife's GMC Safari is close behind.

I usually steer clear of these topics because I hate participating in arguments, but I wish to point out that I'm certain that nothing that we say or nothing that GM builds will change Mitch's opinion.

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Guest Skyking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Centurion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm certain that nothing that we say or nothing that GM builds will change Mitch's opinion. </div></div>

Or the public's!!

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I think it is a drag that two American icons (that I imagine Roberta is talking about) Levis (Mexico) and Converse Chuck Taylors (China) have been outsourced.

People want cheap goods. Makers of these goods want to still make money. When was the last time YOU bought something merely because it was made in the USA regardless of price? I try to, but sometimes there aren't other options. A Snap On ratchet will do the same job as the Lowe's store brand (Chinese made) does, but there is a difference in quality... And a couple hundred bucks. Let your conscience guide you where your head tells your wallet not to.

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If no one would buy a IMPORT for 2 years the US auto industry would be booming.Why cant people get it through their skull that they are betraying the US with imports????????? Wen people lose their jobs they pay no taxes is that so hard to understand?????????

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Guest imported_Thriller

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BUICK RACER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beer for everyone, oh no, they are owned by Europeans and South Africa now too! Guess we'll drink NY and Michigan Wine instead, duh! Or back to Bourban, Jack and Beam instead of Scotch made in Scotland and bottled in IL! EH! or Canadian Whiskey at least made in NA! </div></div>

I'm with Roberta. So, if you ever come up this way, I'll have to see about getting you a tour of the Seagram's distillery in Gimli (less than an hour drive...produce Crown Royal, the best selling Canadian whiskey in the USA). Of course, that is now owned by Diageo, a multinational based in London - among others, Johnnie Walker is one of their brands too.

I was pretty excited this summer...Roberta drove me around Flint a bit - I saw the plant where my truck was built and the plant where the engine in the Rainier was built. We've been happy with these vehicles. We were generally happy with the Montanas as well, but those electric doors were finicky and an intermittent problem that doesn't set a code gets these new-fangled "mechanics" out of sorts.

When I have time, I try to buy local, then Canadian, then North American in that order. I don't always have time and many times there is a limited selection. C'est la vie.

As for ownership, I suppose in the long term, he who has the money wins. I have mutual funds, so I am quite possibly a marginal owner of some of these companies. The question is whether someone with the money steps forward and, if so, what do they do with running the company. If they let people who can put out a high quality product at a reasonable price run the show, and perhaps inject some interesting styling at the same time, things may go well.

As it is, GM is effectively a multinational corporation on its own. Is anything they do entirely American? Some of the vehicles for the American market are built in Mexico...I'm sure some of the parts / assemblies are sourced from outside USA as well.

Perhaps the thing is to put a gag on all automotive journalists (except those talking about old iron) for a year or two...let quality and word of mouth spread and perhaps some of the "American junk / Asian good" mentality will fade. I don't know.

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OK Buick People: Meet Mitch...a few facts

My Father was a WW2 Vet and everything in our house was American. When his German buddy drove his new '66 MB in the driveway I could literally see the smoke coming out of his ears.

I personally liked the Buicks my family had, thus my obsession with my Buick collection (84 at present). I wasn't interested in pony cars or Caddies or Oldsmobiles...Just Lesabres Wildcats and first series Rivieras. Why? Because they appealed to me. I couldn't care less if they were good or bad.

I was a used car dealer for many years. Because I had a thing for American cars I looked for them for stock. They got progressively worse year after.

When I was lucky enough to get a deal on a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazdas or Mitsu I knew it was double money in the bank. First, I didn't have to spend NEARLY the money to recon them and second, they would sell much faster for a lot more money.

I'm sure that several people who participate in this forum can give testimonials about how good their GM cars are. I can only give my experience which isn't the greatest.

Am I baiting you? Somewhat, YES.

I AM DONE. Mitch

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Guest DELTAWINGFLYER

Mitch is the mouse snoring again? ,you sure know how to hit the soft spot when you want too ,

just to clarify on the post about free Canadian health care,

Its only some what free if you dont mined dying waiting to be treated ,if you want to actually live you go to the USA and pay the full meal deal to have the work done,

never assume anything ...

Mitch whats next ?

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Wait Bob (Skyking)

What if production costs are reduced and value and desire return? Undercut the Japanese products (whether made in USA or not) and stand behind a smart looking product - and I don't see why 'new' buyers wouldn't look at the 3 American makes.

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Sorry Mitch, I need to get my two cents in too. I've had three Suburbans; a current Silverado; an '03 Century that I bought for my Mother; and three Corvettes. All BULLETPROOF. My Mother's century is more comfortable than my '99 CL500 Benz on long trips. Both my business partner and brother have Honda vans that both needed transmissions at 70k miles. The long and short is that American cars are well built; cheaper to maintain and can take tons of punishment, having 1st hand experience road racing a Corvette. The BEST sports car for the money is a Corvette, period. The best trucks are American. The best engines for the money are American. The best transmissions are American. Our robotics are in car plants all around world. American car company issues have more to do with economics than quality.

Japanese don't run things any better than anyone else. What they don't have is legacy costs and if you remember, everything Japanese was subsidized by their government so they could sell their stuff here. What they are good at is copying.

Let's see, German cars are supposed to be the best engineered. Well, I might agree. I love them. Ever own one? I have had many. They are maintenance nightmares. One of the guys that worked for me had a Lumina with 450,000 miles and all he did was add Slick 50 to the oil. Try that in your Honda or Benz.

I took your bait...and I'm sorry for the rant...but...don't give me this crap that Japanese can run things better or their cars are better. Now, if you're just trying to provoke, well you succeeded.

Gary

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrlforfun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK Buick People: Meet Mitch...a few facts

Am I baiting you? Somewhat, YES.

I AM DONE. Mitch </div></div>

How many more times can this same topic be hashed out? Thank you Mitch, for being done. And here is a ficticious ( but dead spot on) cartoon on what you can expect in the future, by doing your part to ensure the demise of American built products.

Copied from E-mail, Author unknown.

John Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA ) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN TAIWAN ). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA ),designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE ), and his tennis shoes (MADE IN VIETNAM).

After cooking his breakfast in his electric skillet (MADE IN HONG KONG , and having his cup of coffee (MADE IN ECUADOR ), he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO ) to see how much he could spend today.

After setting his watch (MADE IN SWITZERLAND )to the radio (MADE IN JAPAN), he got in his sports car (MADE IN GERMANY ). Filled it with gas (FROM SAUDI ARABIA) and continued his search for a good paying

AMERICAN JOB.

At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day of job searching, he went home and checked his computer (MADE IN MALAYSIA )

for any new potential jobs. John then decided to relax for a while.

So he put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL ), and his robe (MADE IN INDONESIA). He poured himself a nice tall glass (MADE IN ITALY )

of wine (MADE IN FRANCE ). Turned on his BIG SCREEN TV (MADE IN KOREA ), and the Ceiling Fan (MADE IN BURMA ), and settled into his Leather Couch (MADE IN ARGENTINA )

And then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.

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WOW. What a post!! A collection of 84 Buicks. Money made selling foreign name plate cars. Not sure what this says, but interesting.

But I am like most of the rest of the posts. American all the way. The quality outweighs the price.

I believe what the big three need to do is make something distinctive again. Remember when a Buick looked like nothing else? A Chrysler? A mercury? Remember the New Coke fiasco? We americans like something different. Folks dont have to ask what it is. Dreaming perhaps, but good dreams.

Will not be holding my breath, though.

One last comment. I am glad to see this post stayed civil. Good job.

Ben

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Guest imported_Thriller

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DELTAWINGFLYER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mitch is the mouse snoring again? ,you sure know how to hit the soft spot when you want too ,

just to clarify on the post about free Canadian health care,

Its only some what free if you dont mined dying waiting to be treated ,if you want to actually live you go to the USA and pay the full meal deal to have the work done,

never assume anything ...

</div></div>

Happens anywhere, particularly if you don't have the money in locations where it is user pay. Results keep showing that Canadian health care has lower per capita costs with better outcomes than in the USA...sorry to rain on your parade. Exceptions happen. Unfortunately, the media sensationalizes the exceptions.

Take the exploding Pinto...how many were produced, particularly as a percentage of Ford products and what percentage of them exploded? Yet, 30 years later people still talk about it. Design flaw, yes...catastrophic to Ford...seems not to be the case.

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That particular thread was upsetting to me. Not because of peoples opinions, but because I didn't understand then, nor do I understand now, the full ramifications of giving the Auto Makers the bailout. Thus I tried not to even look at the thread let alone post an opinion.

But I can say I have always been pro GM, mostly Buick. Look at the list of cars below.

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Guest Skyking

The thing that bothers me is why everyone you talk to is so upset about congress giving the <span style="font-weight: bold">loan </span> money. Why aren't these same people upset that congress has been funding many countries outside our borders for years with no payback or strings. Didn't that bother them in the least??????? This puzzles me. I guess the news media really rattles the cages.

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For those of you wanting something more exciting from GM, take a look at this:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f63/naias-09-2010-buick-lacrosse-73739/

More discussions about it in another post.

As for the "GM on life support" posts, I can only speak for myself. I'm pro-GM first, and then pro-US second, which means I would always consider a Ford or Chrysler product over foreign.

What I was (and still am) opposed to about the bailout is the likely prospect of the UAW not changing its ways. I see the UAW chokehold on GM as a threat to GM, and therefore anything that helps the union maintain the status quo is NOT good for GM in the long run.

As for any criticism about GM products, I see this as a family matter. Most of us want GM to make cutting edge-styled products with world-class quality. They seem to have the quality aspect nailed down, but the styling has been cookie-cutter bland, to say the least, for several years.

History dictates it will take great styling to get people to overcome the media hysteria bias against anything with wheels made in America. If styling will get them in the car, great quality will keep them buying the same make over and over agin.

Simple solution, difficult execution.

Joe

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Guest Skyking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reatta Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you wanting something more exciting from GM, take a look at this:

</div></div>

Joe, to me a Dodge Charger is much better looking. I think it's my next car.

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I'd try to contribute to the discussion but I'm just too stupid for you people.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave,

It's OK; most "unenlightened neanderthals" understand you are jealous that many/most people in this forum are as smart or smarter than you, in spite of your efforts to prove your perceived superior intellect.

We don't mind your jealousy; we really don't. You really don't have to try so hard to just be one of the gang.

Happy new year.

Joe</div></div>

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Guest imported_Thriller

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reatta Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most of us want GM to make cutting edge-styled products with world-class quality. They seem to have the quality aspect nailed down, but the styling has been cookie-cutter bland, to say the least, for several years.

History dictates it will take great styling to get people to overcome the media hysteria bias against anything with wheels made in America. If styling will get them in the car, great quality will keep them buying the same make over and over agin.

Simple solution, difficult execution. </div></div>

They could start by making the last generation Riviera again. A 2 door is what many of us here have said we would like, it is traditional Buick in many respects, and the styling of that car still looks current ten years later.

Stevo - the LaCrosse (or Allure) is pretty much what I would consider a full size car...it definitely appears larger than a Malibu (longer at least)...it isn't as big as the Lucerne, but I know I'd be hard pressed to say much without seeing the two of them side by side. We had a loaner Allure just a little while ago...typical Buick quiet, and the trunk was massive. Note that this is effectively opinion - dimensions should be available, at least for the current LaCrosse, on the GM web site...I don't think the new one would be a significant departure.

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Guest Reatta1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd try to contribute to the discussion but I'm just too stupid for you people.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave,

It's OK; most "unenlightened neanderthals" understand you are jealous that many/most people in this forum are as smart or smarter than you, in spite of your efforts to prove your perceived superior intellect.

We don't mind your jealousy; we really don't. You really don't have to try so hard to just be one of the gang.

Happy new year.

Joe</div></div> </div></div>

Davce, Dave, Dave. We REALLY don't need to dredge up some of that garbage from the closed 'life support' thread. It serves no ones interests. Many wide ranging opinions were presented there and that is where they should stay. In a couple weeks we are getting the most liberal administration and congress this country has ever seen. We will then see what happens.

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Derek,

I thought it might be about the same as the current LaCrosse which I consider to be a mid size car. I did not know if the epsilon platform was longer. I think all in all it looks pretty good but there are things I do not like about the design. One is the small back end and the treatment of the rear lights.

I will probably change my mind when I see the actual car but I am reserving judgement.

stevo

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Derek,

I agree 100%; a next-generation Riv could definitely be a flagship car for Buick, and I have been asking for one for years.

Some say 2-doors don't sell, yet many foreign makes offer them, and used 2-door Monte Carlos and Rivieras are bringing more money on used car Web sites than their 4-door counterparts with similar options and mileage.

What's the holdup? Got me.....

Sure seems like if Cadillac can make a car on an under-utilized Corvette assembly line, there might be room for a Buick version in coupe and convertible versions. Hmmmmmmm....

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure seems like if Cadillac can make a car on an under-utilized Corvette assembly line, there might be room for a Buick version in coupe and convertible versions.</div></div>We all know how well the last expensive Buick two seater went over. wink.gif

Though I'd love to see it I have no doubt it would be an abject failure in the sales department at the price point they'd have to place it at.

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Roger,

Anything coming off that line is likely to have a V-8 in the 5.7 (350 cu. in.)

Lots more likely to get crossover (non-Buick) buyers in anything that has that kind of punch. And, on an established platform, they would be more likely to make it priced competitively.

What is it the GS guys are always saying..."Going Fast with Class"

Joe

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The Corvette's base price is just shy of fifty thou. A Buick version even if priced identically would have few takers IMO, and would likely cannibalize sales from the Corvette and the XLR, I mean just how many people constitute the market for American two-seaters?

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