1991 3800 Buick -- OBD-1 Code 41

December 7, 2008

My 89 year old Dad has a 1991 LeSabre Custom with about 130,000 miles on it that ran fairly well.(It will probably be a parts car for the 1989 Reatta some day soon as Dad is out shopping for a new car!).

I put a shot of Lucas injector cleaner in the gas tank and accelerated and braked hard a few times while driving around the block to mix the cleaner and gas. The total ride was about 1/2 a mile and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">no</span></span> rubber was burned...I swear!

This has caused the check engine light to come on and it will not clear. The OBD-1 code -41- has appeared and is listed for three problems; 1) C³I Cam Sensor Signal error, 2) Ignition control error, and 3) MEM-CAL error.

Any suggestions which one(s)of these potential problems to go after?

The car is still running fairly well except for the check engine light. I was supprised that it has a Motorola Coil pack. I have a recycled Delco coil pack, so that will probably be the next step.

padgett · December 7, 2008

Most common cause of a persistant 041 is that the magnet (interrupter) has fallen off of the cam sprocket.

See http://padgett.ws/cars/cammag.htm for details.

December 7, 2008

Thanks Padgett,

Great article, thanks for the information. Have you ever replaced the cam magnetic?

The J B weld recommended to bond the new modified magnetic is great epoxy. I'll check it out and get back to you if I try the proceedure.

Jim · December 7, 2008

I have replaced several cam sensor magnets with the JB method and it worked every time. One of the times I had to do it was also my fault. The magnets are held to the timing gear in a four pronged plastic holder. The magnets deteriorate and so does the plastic holder. I wound the engine up going through the gears one time and the high rpm threw the magnet off. I never rev up high mileage 3800s any more.

'47 Frazer, 82 Trans Am-------

I have several Reatta parts cars but also own 4 Henry Js, a '63 LeMans convertible and a '65 GTO convertible.

Ronnie · December 7, 2008

The Henry J makes a really cool drag car.

December 7, 2008

I had a 66 GTO.

What is the blue car you have on your postings? I used to have a 54 Plymouth that looked similar.

And forget the Henry J drag cars, there was a fellow in California that was making Darrins out of them (America's first fiberglass two seater sports car)

December 11, 2008

It was the magnet.

Glued in a new one and car is running well.

Thanks to all for the tech help

padgett · December 11, 2008

It probably made sense for two reasons: Simple to install and 50,000 mile/5 year warrenty. We did not start seeing these until about 10 years after production.

December 11, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scott209</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With GM ready to get its slice of the $15 billion bailout, I always think about code 041. Does a company deserve to survive when it uses a piece of plastic to hold a magnet deep within an engine? How much extra would it have cost GM to make the thing out of metal and save us weekend mechanics all this hassle of repairing it. </div></div>

I do agree with you somewhat.. Idealy there should be a little more concern for quality control but obviously it has done it's job, Ive got 196k on mine and hae not had this problem yet.... And if it got the job done then I say good job GM for using plastic pieces.

October 5, 2012

Hello, I also have a 91 lesabre 3800 motor and have a code 41, does this method with the jb weld work and solve the problem? Thanks

padgett · October 5, 2012

Generally, if the magnet has falen off (need to check visually) I have not heard of any failures using my method. If magnet has not fallen off then could be the sensor or wiring.

Usually it happens when an engine experiences over 4000 rpm operation.

Suppose if the magnet is in still place, you could always clean and add a fillet of JBWeld to strengthen but I've never done that.

October 5, 2012

I recently have had success with the JB Weld magnet replacement.

The comments on GM quality, strike a nerve with me. When looking at the quality of materials used in the Reatta, I understand why some say GM should have been swept aside. Admittedly, they seemed to have realized their shortcomings, as my friend's late 90's Bonnevilles have a much higher grade of materials, particularly the interior. I find myself constantly comparing my 91 Reatta with my 90 Toyota Celica GT, a car that cost around $13,000 LESS, but is far more reliable and constructed of far, far better materials--again, particularly the interior. My Toyota is still fully functional, in nice condition, yet has nearly 100,000 more miles than the Buick. Of course, the Toyota does not have the responsiveness or the classic styling of the Reatta--the styling is what attracted me to the Buick, as well as knowing the 3800 is a good engine generally, yet with typical engine management issues/problems associated with GM quality (or lack thereof). A friend, who owns nothing but GM cars (though usually pre-emission cars), calls it The Beretta Effect--mass produced, cheap materials, maximize profit, and hope it makes it past the warranty period. He told me he saw The Beretta Effect at work in my Reatta, as it is constructed of similar materials. All that said, I still like driving the Buick over the Toyota, except when going to the gas station.

My daily driver will always be a Toyota or Honda, preferably one built in Japan, like my Celica, since dependability is paramount. Toyota quality has slipped since being built in the USA, and incorporating too much of the American manufacturing mentality/philosophy. My toys are selected based on aesthetics, with preference to pre-1972 FoMoCo and Pontiac vehicles.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

October 7, 2012

Hello again, will it work on a 91 "c"engine?, thanks for the help

October 7, 2012

Hello again, will it work on a 91 "c"engine?, thanks for the help

Yes

padgett · October 7, 2012

My daily driver is the white 'vert. Once sorted I have had no issues and got 27 mpg going to the Silver Springs Oktoberfest today. Only issue was that I misplaced my sunblock.

89REATTAJIM · October 7, 2012

My daily driver is the white 'vert. Once sorted I have had no issues and got 27 mpg going to the Silver Springs Oktoberfest today. Only issue was that I misplaced my sunblock.

Hunter would have been glad to share his sunblock with "Mr Padgett". Good seeing you again.... Jim

October 8, 2012

Hello, i tried the jb weld method and have found success. After driving it ran good. checked the test connection and code 41 still shows up on the memory. will this clear after a few driving cycles or do you think its leaning towards a computer issue? Thanks

DAVES89 · October 8, 2012

I would think that it would clear if you disconnected the battery fo a bit of time. Glad it worked for you.

October 9, 2012

Yes, you where right, since you've been a big help, i wanted to get your opinion on this: i have codes stored in my cars computer telling me problems, for example: one scan showed the following: 12,26,27,28,29,41, second scan showed this: 12,24,26,27,28,29,31,41. The last scan was after the disconnection of the battery and a short test drive: 12,24,26,28,31. code 41 was cleared. Why do you think there is such a fluctuation in these trouble codes, do you think that there are spoiled connections and or ground wires? thanks for you time and help

padgett · October 9, 2012

Should be able to clear codes with the diagnostics. No need to disconnect the battery.

DAVES89 · October 9, 2012

If your codes are like the Reattas then you have ABS brake sensor issues. I would start there.

Machiner 55 · October 9, 2012

Yes, you where right, since you've been a big help, i wanted to get your opinion on this: i have codes stored in my cars computer telling me problems, for example: one scan showed the following: 12,26,27,28,29,41, second scan showed this: 12,24,26,27,28,29,31,41. The last scan was after the disconnection of the battery and a short test drive: 12,24,26,28,31. code 41 was cleared. Why do you think there is such a fluctuation in these trouble codes, do you think that there are spoiled connections and or ground wires? thanks for you time and help

Hello,

Long ago I bought an ’89 Reatta as a parts car. It had it’s share of problems but, it turns out, it was in better shape than the Reatta I had. Among the problems disclosed by the seller, the one that wasn’t mentioned was odd and random trouble codes. Like you, it seemed that each time I checked the ECM codes they’d change. Long story short, I ended up changing out the ECM.

I’d also like to comment on another poster statement about not having trouble with aftermarket ECM’s. In this case I had to return the first ECM purchased for an exchange as the first one obtained had an issue that, at this time, escapes me. So, failed or corrupt ECMs do make it out in the wild. But, once the second one was installed, all was right with the world once again.

In addition, this is where I came to believe that jumping a car battery while the key is in the “ON“ position may “fry” the car’s “brain”. The seller told me that they tried to get the car started prior to my arrival on the day of purchase but were unable to get it running. When I got in the car to steer, while others pushed the car onto the tow dolly, I noticed that the key was already in the “ON” position. I may be adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5 but, then again, maybe not.

I have no idea if this is your problem. Just something to consider.

John F.

wws944 · October 10, 2012

...
In addition, this is where I came to believe that jumping a car battery while the key is in the “ON“ position may “fry” the car’s “brain”...

Not to mention the diodes in the alternator from massive current inrush. Always hook up jumper cables up with the engine turned off.

October 13, 2012

Hello again,

quick question, before I change an ecm, what would cause the ses light to come on stay on for a while, and go off?, obd1 problems: 2 quad module circuits, 26 28 or the vehicle speed sensor or the park neutral safety switch? Thank you

1991 buick lesabre

Ronnie · October 13, 2012

The code 26 is likely the cause. The code 28 is a third gear switch inside the transmission. It won't turn on the SES light. I have a code 28 show up from time to time with no light.

89Maui, a member of this forum and the ROJ forum, has written a great tutorial on troubleshooting the code 26. Click the link below.

Code E026 Troubleshooting - Reatta Owners Journal

Ronnie · October 13, 2012

I think 89Maui's problem was similar to yours and his problem turned out to be the TCC not sending the proper signal to the ECM. He will jump in here later and fill in the details.

October 13, 2012

are yo9u sure that the vehicle speed sensor and the neutral safety switch wont turn on a intermittent check light?

Ronnie · October 13, 2012

are yo9u sure that the vehicle speed sensor and the neutral safety switch wont turn on a intermittent check light?

No

1991 3800 Buick -- OBD-1 Code 41

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