1934 dodge freewheeling transmission

[sfcnomad]

Does anyone know of a expert on the freewheeling Vacuum system? A diagram would also be helpful.

Thanks, Scott

[sfcnomad]

Sorry for the general request I am really looking for anyone who has any information, knowledge, experience with the 33,34,35 Dodge/Ply freewheeling Clutch. Any Body out there with information your reply is appreciated.

[Guest nofrills33]

Is this the same as the "vacuum clutch"? If not, I need info on both! Wish I could help, but I need the same info. Mine was disconnected at some point and I need to find out where all connections are/were so that I can double check to make sure everything is sealed up. I am assuming that it can be disconnected with no ill effects?

There is a unit (vacuum) on eBay, I was going to try and get in touch with seller to see if he has any information.

Will keep you posted- would appreciate the same.

[sfcnomad]

Yes we are talking about the same thing. The person selling the one on ebay lives about an hour from my home I too am trying to get in contact with him I will let you know what I find out.

will stay in touch

[Guest nofrills33]

Thanks-there must be something out there-it appears that a good number of the vehicles from( I'm guessing) '32-34 had this option.

[sfcnomad]

I agree, someone will be able to help I am sure. There is a man in Tacoma WA. that I have heard may have some information the only name that I know the Dodge folks call him is Roger Dodger. Any one know Roger? or have contact info.

[keiser31]

Roger "Dodger" Hartley...rah3601.wa@netzero.net

I also just went to GOOGLE and typed in "1932 Plymouth freewheeling" and got some idea of what it does and how it works. It was outlawed in many states because it was like "coasting" and on a down hill, the engine would turn at a different speed than the transmission, thus NOT slowing the car down and creating a hazardous amount of pressure on the brakes. That would be especially dangerous if the brakes were maladjusted and it could swerve one direction or the other causing it to possibly veer into another Dodge (and we wouldn't want to do THAT now, would we).

[Guest outlaw car man]

Got the diagram and information-

outlawhistory@comcast.net

[sfcnomad]

Thank you for Rogers contact information

The freewheeling doesn't sound like a good thing.

[keiser31]

It can be a gas saving thing.

[Guest nofrills33]

Thanks all-Rodger "Dodger" has been helping with advice for years with the DBC-should have thought of him...

Outlaw carman-what format is the info in? Can you scan or copy ? Send me a PM at: dawhite77@comcast.net

[Guest elmo39]

If i am right you are talking about the freewheeling over drive . it was not fitted to all cars but was an option . I would suggest you go on ebay and try and find a Auto Repair Manual that covers your year , if you cant find one, the 35 on one would do as the over drive unit was virtually unchanged through to 37-38 from 39 they used a semi electric system

[hchris]

We are talking about the vacuum assisted clutch here not the overdrive/freewheel unit ?

If so the vacuum unit fitted on the left side of the transmission was operated by a connection to the inlet manifold, similar in principle to a vacuum assist brake booster. In this case however Vacuum boost was coupled to the clutch linkage and moved the clutch in and out during a manual gear change rather than you depressing the clutch pedal by foot.

There was a dash mounted cable which was used to engage or disengage the unit, similar this time to those of you who have an overdrive unit installed.

So when engaged this unit would depress the clutch pedal for you as you lifted your foot off the gas pedal during gear changes and bring the pedal out as you applied the gas pedal to accelerate.

The problem was it could not differentiate between you lifting your foot off the gas pedal to change gear or simply lifting your foot to slow down, hence the clutch would disengage in either situation and suddenly just when you wanted engine compression to slow you down the clutch would pedal would depress.

A common expression for those using this device was to put the car into " angel gear "

Certainly not exclusive to Chrysler/Dodge etc. it was found on other makes but because of the inherent dangers was only seen around 1933 / 1934. Any good repair manual from that era will have detailed information on these items.

[Guest imported_woodwheels]

Freewheel and vacuum clutch were two seperate items. Neither of them were a very good idea and the freewheel was a death trap for reasons explained in some of the above submissions. It is true that freewheel was outlawed in several mountain states because of the near impossible nature of shifting out of it at high speed. With no engine back pressure and and red hot brake drums it was a very frightening outcome on a long downhill mountain road. Any car with either or both options can be operated without these items and in my personal opinion should be for the good of this ancient iron and the safety of operation. The vacuum clutch was a notorious leaker and caused many a warped valve and or cracked valve seat. It is easy to disconnect and I believe should be put in a box and left there. Both items first appeared, at Chrysler, in 1932 and the vacuum clutch was last available in 1938. The freewheel was at Chrysler Corp on Plymouth, Dodge and DeSoto and last available on a 1934 Plymouth PE. It was a weak attempt at overdrive and should be disabled at the transmission housing controll lever on the drivers side of the unit. A few '33 Dodge and Plymouth transmissions were made without the freewheel unit to include the pick up. I would love to oun just one of them that is restoreable. The output shaft is particular to it and implssible to find.

Jim Cook

1933 DP technical advisor

Dodge Brothers Club

[nearchoclatetown]

Jim, I'm not familar with either of these options. Do you know about what percentage of the cars would have had these option?

[Guest nofrills33]

Jim,

Thanks...How would I know, absent dealer/original owner paperwork, if I have the "free-wheeling " option. I know the vacuum clutch had an actuator unit mounted on the engine and intake manifold and a dash mounted button to engage, but what about the "free wheeling? Any visual clues...I'd rather know now than the first time I go down a steep hill. What amI looking for at the" transmission control lever on the drivers side"?

Thanks-

[Guest imported_woodwheels]

The # of '33 Dodge and Plymouth cars that were made with these 2 options is probably very high, Chrysler documented #'s are not available to the best of my information. The controll lever is roughly in the middle of the casing top to bottom and front to rear. It is about 2" long and has 2 holes on it at the bottom, one for the controll knob at the dash and the other for the actuator cable to the vacuum clutch. There is a clear picture of this in all 1933 Dodge and Plymouth owners manuals between page page 35 and 36. This post is concerning a 34 transmission. Chrysler literature indicates that freewheeling was available on 34 Plymouth but not 34 Dodge. In 34 Dodge offered a true overdrive other sources say the freewheel was available to the 34 Dodge. Many will argue that Dodge did offer a 34 freewheel. It is imperative to remember that 33 and 34 transmissions will interchange, this info is confirmed in the 1946 Hollander. My point is that after 75 years of repairs one needs to understand that it is impossible to tell if you have the trans that came with the car or not much less whether it is a Dodge or Plymouth origin. Very early PC Plymouth units were slightly different and some 34 Deoto SE and some Chrysler CA and CB units will work. Case lengths varried and driveshaft lengths had to be watched.

Jim

[nearchoclatetown]

Thank you.

[Guest imported_RAH]

Guys,

I think there is a confusion here about 'freewheeling' and 'vaccuum automatic clutch'. These are two different things that happen to be controlled by the same knob in the center of the dash. The one with the little button in the middle of the knob. Pulling out first notch disables one of these features. Pulling all the way out disables both features. The '33 and '34 had these features. Both were discontinued in '35. Freewheeling is an overriding clutch inside the tranny. By the way, the commercial tranny does NOT have freewheeling and the boss for the lever was not drilled.

The vaccuum automatic clutch was a $9.50 accessory and not all cars were so fitted. As I understand it was relatively unreliable and depended on a properly operating engine with maximum vaccuum in the carb. and optimum idle RPMs. There was a enclosed pendulum that operated a valve controlling the vaccuum cylinder connected to the clutch lever. When coming up to an intersection that pendulum sensed the change in forward motion and caused the clutch to pull in. Revving up the engine to move forward decreased vaccuum and released the clutch. Suffice it to say I personally would not attempt to reinstall one that was removed. I have data sheet on both and could mail if desired. Leave a personal message with address.

[Guest nofrills33]

RAH, Thanks, I think I have all I need for right now. I was fairly sure they were two different items, not very reliable, and since mine was disconnected I have no intention of restoring and/or replacing.

Thanks to all who have contributed... it takes a village to raise a the "village idiot" properly! I am always amazed at the wealth of information out there that is so readily offered.

Thanks again!

[Phil 32DL6]

Thought I'd update this interesting thread with a few pics. First, the Freewheeling feature was proudly introduced in 1932 and came standard on the Dodge, anyway, and probably other Chrysler products as well. (In the middle of the depression, saving gas money trumped safety, I guess.) The Auto Clutch unit was an option, as noted above.

My 32DL6 has the option. It was still hooked up when I got it, but was non-functional. I decided to leave it on, but, rather than try to restore it, I found an easy, hard to spot method of disabling it without risking a vacuum leak.

The first photo shows the complete set up. (1) is the Clutch Control Cylinder. (2) Is the linkage to the clutch unit. (3) Are various vacuum lines and linkages. (4) Is the Clutch Control Operating Valve. (5) Is a flanged port on the intake manifold.

The other three photos show how I fashioned a simple plate to seal off the port on the intake manifold.

BTW...the 1943 issue of Dyke's has a very comprehensive section on this dubious feature beginning on page 2 of Addenda, Section 1.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

The operation of the vacuum servo clutch was controlled by a cable connected to the gas pedal which was connected to a valve on the clutch vacuum line. Dropping the gas pedal to idle opened the vacuum line to the intake manifold and the clutch disengaged. Pressing down on the gas pedal from idle closed the vacuum line and the clutch return spring reengaged the clutch to the flywheel.

The pendulum was hooked up 'backwards' to the above operation to stop the clutch from 'hunting' during jerky brake application or jerky gas pedal operation. It's operation smoothed out the servo clutch movement to keep the car from 'galloping' down the road.

The clutch operation was at the extreme end of the pull out knob's extension on the dash. As far as I know all knobs were embossed 'FREEWHEELING'. The clutch system did not work unless the freewheeling was first engaged. Both freewheeling and the vacuum servo clutch were,by necessity, engaged at the same time. (The freewheeling disengaged the driveline a split second before the vacuum servo clutch mechanism released the flywheel to keep the car from being 'dragged' down by the slowing down engine.)

Freewheeling,as mentioned, is engaged at the first notch. Then the vacuum servo clutch was engaged as the knob was pulled all the way out.

I would not remove anything from the car. I would leave it as found. Gloss black I believe in all years it was installed. You only need leave the 'freewheeling' knob all the way 'in' to the dash and neither devices will work. The transmission and clutch will work as 'normal'.

However with that said, the freewheeling makes for clutchless shifts after moving off in 1st. Shifting back and forth between 3rd and 2nd is also clutchless if the freewheeling is left engaged. I agree though, having driven in the hills of Pennsylvania and up Mulholland Drive above Hollywood, I would disengage the freewheeling unless I was assured I was on going to be on

reasonably flat ground.

But again I would not modify the car and it's provenance. It could turn out be expensive down the road.

[Phil 32DL6]

I totally agree with KLC on the Auto Clutch. Bad idea!

However, 43 years ago I spent many enjoyable miles using the Freewheeling feature on my original DL6. And in hilly Syracuse, NY, too!

Would I do so now? Nope? My newest DL6 is so smooooth when double clutching that Freewheeling is moot.

My dash button is permanently pulled all the way out!

[Phil 32DL6]

As far as I know all knobs were embossed 'FREEWHEELING'.Freewheeling,as mentioned, is engaged at the first notch. Then the vacuum servo clutch was engaged as the knob was pulled all the way out.

Since the Auto Clutch wasn't functioning when my "new baby" arrived, I can't say absolutely for sure WHAT button position activated this feature. I've never sensed (or read about) any "notches" when operating the dash control button.

According to the 1932 Owner's Manual (which BTW doesn't mention the Auto Clutch option at all), pulling the dash control button all the way OUT eliminated the Freewheeling function altogether and put the transmission into "positive gear control." In other words, regular standard transmission functioning.

My understanding is that Freewheeling was standard on all 1932 Dodge models and that the dash button turned this function "on" (in position) or "off" (out position), and that, if you opted for the optional Auto Clutch, then that was turned on or off along with Freewheeling...in other words they worked in sync.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

It's a possibility some cars operated the features by pushing the knob in all the way but any I've seen were activated by pulling out the knob. The 'notches' are indents in the side of the control stem and there is a ball bearing with a spring behind it in the 'neck' of the dash mounting. The ball snaps into the notches as they pass it and create a positive stop for the particular feature. Any I've seen freewheeling at the 1st notch and vacuum servo clutch/freewheeling at the 2nd notch. I believe some CPDD cars had paper stickers on their dash knobs to indicate their use and those stickers went bye-bye a long time ago.

I have an article in a mag about the attributes of using freewheeling and saving gas versus not using it. The testing says that no saving could be found mainly because of the action of the accelerator pump. Each time the gas pedal was released to 'engage' freewheeling and save gas by coasting, this saving was lost when the gas pedal was pushed down again and the accelerator pump on the carb squirted gas down the carb throat. The pump action cancelling out any savings in gasoline during coasting at idle.

The freewheeling is definitely engaged first before the vacuum servo clutch. It has to be otherwise the car would 'hump and thump' everytime the gas pedal was released and the clutch went to release and the engine revs dropped before the actual clutch release from the flywheel-'engine braking'. Also if the transmission is not disconnected from the rear axle, the car would have to come to a dead stop to shift gears because any road movement would keep the tranny turning over and these are non-syncro transmissions. Freewheeling not only smooths out the whole operation but allows shifting at any speed,even rolling stops.

By having freewheeling AND the vacuum servo clutch in operation at the same time literally isolates the transmission from the car and shifting gears is only a matter of moving the stick as the gears in the transmission are standing still no matter if the car is moving or not.

Freewheeling is not a clutch. It is a set of roller bearings in grooves in a casing attached to the rear of the tranny. Centrifugal force (really thrust) keeps the bearings engaged with the outside casing and keeps the wheels turning. The moment the gas pedal is released, thrust dissappears and the bearings fall away and drive to the rear wheels stops i. e. freewheeling. It's virtually the same device as 'coaster brakes' on a bicycle except you can turn it off and on.

As previously mentioned the pedulum works in a negative feedback mode to cancel any 'humping and jumping' caused by a lead foot/agressive driver.

The system works excellent and was installed as standard equipment on thousands of CPDD cars and then as an option later.

I've heard of freewheeling being banned in some States but I've never seen it in writing. Old wive's tale? Anybody out there have it in writing as a highway traffic law amendment?

Edited August 1, 2011 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

The freewheeling acted as an automatic clutch. You could lift off the gas, the engine would freewheel, shift gears without the clutch, step on the gas and away you go.

It was not meant to be used in hilly country or real heavy traffic. There was a lockout switch or handle to change to conventional drive.

[Phil 32DL6]

I can only speak for sure as to how it works on both of my 32DL6s. Here's a closeup showing that you push the dash control button all the way in to use Freewheeling, and pull it all the way out for Positive Gear Control (conventional driving). That's how it's described in the owner's manual, too.

Dyke's says the same thing in their general coverage of Chrysler auto clutches, so I would guess other makes and years were the same?

The second photo shows that there is an indented ring around the control shaft which the spring loaded ball-bearing clicks into as the button is pulled almost all the way out, but right now it's not serving any noticeable function. I was under the impression that BOTH features were switched on together when the button was all the way in, but maybe that intermediate position was to activate the Auto Clutch & Freewheeling features together and all the way in is only Freewheeling?? Or, maybe that clicked position was to make sure that the button wouldn't get easily pushed in accidentally, turning on Freewheeling by mistake? It would be interesting to find out what's what.

[Dodge1934]

I have a 34 dodge. I have 2 auto clutches .. I have an extra tranny but don`t think the extra is a free wheeling type... my extra autoclutch is 1932.. I ham in the middle of restoring the one for mine and while I am going to install it I`m will not make it functional... it is all about the look

[Dodge1934]

I also have two free wheeling knobs.. the original in my 34 dodge has an extra button.

the extra knob doesnot have a button but is slightly different than the one pictured a couple of notes ago

[Guest imported_woodwheels]

I apologize for being so tardy with this response re; freewheeling and vacuum clutch. There are 2 responses in this series that are signed by me but were not posted by me. I assume they were posted by a DBC member that had good intentions. I wrote an article in the DBC news that addresses the questions raised in these 3-4 pages of correspondence. In Vol 27 No3 March/April 2009 of the DBC I authored an article on these subjects that address the questions presented. I am more than willing to answer any questions that may still be unresolved, within my ability.

The issues with dial up access and a terrible phone line to my residence and the AACA needs for updates to user name and pass word make using this form a pain to say the least. I am not imported. AACA fed me this ID after 10 years of using woodwheels as an ID. Yes I am an old goof that uses the internet to the best of his ability but I do not appreciate being treated like an illeterate by these technologies. I have shyed away from using this valuable source of Dodge imformation because I found logging on to be most frustrating in the last year or so. Do others also find it so?

Drive that DB;

Jim Cook

1933 DP technical advisor

Dodge Brothers Club

[Phil 32DL6]

...I found logging on to be most frustrating in the last year or so. Do others also find it so?

Jim...Next time you log in, see if there's a check box that says "remember me on this computer," or "keep me logged in," or something like that. Checking that will automatically log you in each time you visit the Forums. But, it's possible you may not have that feature.

[F&J]

The issues with dial up access and a terrible phone line to my residence and the AACA needs for updates to user name and pass word make using this form a pain to say the least. I am not imported. AACA fed me this ID after 10 years of using woodwheels as an ID

The "imported" got added to "some" members names during the time that this website upgraded the server. It was a glitch, and not done on purpose. The tech people here can fix it if you bring it to their attention.

Maybe that is why you are having trouble signing in? Because the name is wrong? Just a wild guess.

[Guest martylum]

I'm not an expert on free wheeling but know that it went hand in hand with a vacuum operated clutch mechanism on early 30's cars including my 33 Chrysler CQ which has the same 8 cylinder engine as Dodges of that period.

The free wheeling feature is needed so the vacuum clutch feature will operate properly when decelerating. A good deal of good information on the system is available in the owners manual for a car with this feature.

I think some people wired off the free wheeling feature so it would not function and you would then always have engine braking on deceleration to help with braking on long steep downhill sections. A free wheeling transmission has a push-pull knob so you can choose whether to have this feature operational but You must have the free wheeling engaged for the vacuum clutch feature to function. A 32 dodge DK-8 I had in my shop had a broken control knob so the unit was wired in the off position.

As part of a vacuum clutch system there are mechanical-vacuum sensors on the engine at the throttle linkage and an electrical switch which operate to sense voltage output- all these devices tied to the vacuum clutch. Early hi-tech stuff.

If you are looking for specifics for your car with free wheeling, find an owners manual at a literature dealer.

Martin Lum

[Joe Cozza]

Jim...Next time you log in, see if there's a check box that says "remember me on this computer," or "keep me logged in," or something like that. Checking that will automatically log you in each time you visit the Forums. But, it's possible you may not have that feature.

Phil, Not to mess up this thead, but I have the same problem. I sign in and everything is fine. I could get off the forum and do other things online then go back and I'm still signed in, but if I get off the internet and then try to go back to the forum I have to sign back in.

Joe C.

[nearchoclatetown]

Joe and Phil, go to the AACA General section and look for forum questions. Ask one of the moderators there.

[hchris]

Have been following this thread with interest as I restore a 34 CB Chrysler fitted with vac clutch and freewheel.

Marty - I have not encountered anything electrical with this system, can you explain more ? :confused:

thanks

Chris

[Guest 1930]

Whenever I have ANY issues with anything on this forum I go to the very first post on this forum always at the top its called Dodge links, click on that, its author is Peter Gariepy, click on his name, send him a private message expaining the troubles you are having, I always get a response within twelve hours explaining how to fix it or better yet he fixes it for me so I dont have to do a thing. I dont think having dial up or bad phone lines helps but certaintely there are no issues that cant be prob. resolved within hours if someone were to contact the right person and let them see if they can help you.

[Guest martylum]

Chris with the 34 Chrysler---I went through my 33 CQ owners manual wiring diagram to refresh my memory & find that the electrical switch which is mounted with the the vacuum clutch linkage at the throttle is tied to the Startix type of starter mechanism. This mechanism enabled you to start the car by depressing the gas pedal but some of the electrical elements are missing so i installed a push button on the dash. TShe 33 CQ has close ties to Dodge as it too has a Budd body-it might be rightly called a rebadged Dodge.

Martin Lum

[hchris]

Martin thanks for that, I was wondering if there was something missing from my installation but it would seem not. There`s not a lot of this era to compare with down here.

chris

[knobless]

http://forums.aaca.org/members/knobless/albums/1933-ply-pd-auto-clutch/

A few pictures on my 33 PD w/Autoclutch