Whats the deal with modified cars at Hershey

[junkyardjeff]

I have been hearing stories about the workers at the show having a major cow when someone tries to bring a modified car into the Hershey show or swapmeet area,I have never been there and if I do attend I might drive my slightly modified stock looking 37 chevy p/u but it would most likely be parked in the spectator parking and I would not want a worker taking revenge on it in the parking lot. Since this is a ACCA site I figured I would try to find out what the policy is for the show. Jeff

[Shop Rat]

First to show a vehicle at an AACA National show the owner must be a member of the AACA. Some AACA Regions/Chapters have local shows and they can let whatever vehicles in that they want to. Many hold open shows as fundraisers for their club.

But for AACA National shows the vehicles must be either original or restored back to as they came from the factory. Vehicles that would be considered modified, street rods, hot rods etc. are not accepted for juding.

Same for vehicles in the car corral or flea market spaces if they are for sale.

Spectators are free to drive whatever they want to bring to see the cars in the show. I can't imagine where you would get the idea that anyone would "take revenge" on your vehicle. There are folks here that have non-original vehicles as well as original/restored vehicles. They accept that those vehicles can't be shown or sold at AACA National events.

[junkyardjeff]

Would I be allowed to bring in my modified 37 chevy p/u if I was using it to haul the parts I was selling,I heard stories on another site and wanted to know what the deal was and if I showed up with my truck I dont want a angry restorer coming after my truck. Jeff

[R W Burgess]

In the Hershey Flea Market area, 2007! You can drive whatever you want to Hershey, even in the flea market if you're a vendor.

Wayne

Only slightly modified!

[MCHinson]

Jeff, To be a vendor at a National AACA meet, you have to be an AACA member. If you are vending at a National Meet, you can haul your parts in whatever you want to haul them in. You certainly don't have to worry about an "angry restorer" doing anything to your vehicle. What other site has "stories" leading you to believe any such nonsense?

[Matt Harwood]

First you really need to get over the idea that anyone is going to "attack" your modified truck (be ready for more than a few AACA members to be offended by the suggestion). Modified vehicles aren't targets at AACA meets any more than they are at any other show. Would you attack my authentically restored '41 Century if it showed up at a Goodguys event? Of course not. You run a greater risk of vandalism parking it in a regular parking lot. What other site told you that restorers "come after" modified vehicles? Sometimes members of this board, myself included, try to [passionately] talk guys out of putting small block Chevys in their old cars, but the cars themselves in any form are in no danger from anyone. We're all car people and respect craftsmanship in all its automotive forms.

As Susan said, bringing your truck is fine as long as you're not showing it as part of the show or selling it in the car corral or swap meet areas. If you're selling parts out of the back of it, no problem.

The AACA is dedicated to the preservation of antique cars in their original state. I don't know why owners of modified cars often feel excluded--this isn't the right club for those cars. I don't feel badly when the Ford Club of America doesn't want my '41 Buick showing up. It's just not the right venue, that's all.

<span style="font-style: italic">Edit:</span> I just re-read this and it sounds a little harsh. I certainly didn't mean it that way. Bottom line: your car is in no danger, but there are probably clubs that can better accommodate your choice of vehicle. You're more than welcome to visit and sell your items at the Hershey show.

[West Peterson]

Well said.

... and I would also like to know what website forum is bashing AACA.

[MCHinson]

Google is great! Found it. I have not had time to read it all, but I have noticed that there are both pro and con points mentioned in the discussion. Let's all keep calm about it. But, here it is is you want to read the discussion that is obviously the catalyst for this post...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?s=4d5e324d32a2b8a35553edd6a2e25a94&t=300319

[Matt Harwood]

I gotta call BS on that post on the other board. Maybe he got turned away, but I find that story incredibly hard to believe as-is. He was chased out by a guy throwing epithets at him? The guy was actively rounding up the dozens of street rods that somehow sneaked into the show and tossing them out? There's a <span style="font-weight: bold">policy</span> to <span style="font-style: italic">"treat people with street rods as the enemy?"</span> They made him pay a fine for trying to get a street rod into the show? The guy followed him around yelling that he was a rodder (the image in my mind is Michael Richards' infamous rant: "He's a rodder! He's a rodder!"). They had him physically escorted out? Nobody else saw this if it was so spectacularly stupid? WTF?

He also drove past these signs to get to where he claimed he was:

I'm sorry if it was not what he expected and maybe the AACA guy at the gate really was a jerk. But I seriously doubt it was as horrific as this fellow claims it was. As others point out, it IS the AACA's party, and they make the rules. Like I said, I don't get upset if a club that's not appropriate for my car doesn't want me to show my car at their events. Why is this such a sore point with so many people? There's certainly no shortage of clubs and events if you want to show your car, whatever it may be. Otherwise, Hershey's doors are open to everyone.

Hyperbole.

[Ron Green]

I did see this in the car corral on Friday and it was covered up. I believe there was a motorcycle with it. I commented to my brother I wonder how it got in? I also remember the announcement over the PA system that the vehicle had to be removed immediately. I also didn't witness any scooter wheeling, golf cart riding AACA members chasing him down "<span style="font-style: italic">throwing epithets</span>" in his direction.

His quote of: "<span style="font-style: italic">I have been attending Hershey for decades and </span><span style="font-style: italic">have always seen a presence of cars in both those</span><span style="font-style: italic"> categories</span>." obviously shows he knows not what he speaks of.

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But for AACA National shows the vehicles must be either original or restored back to as they came from the factory. Vehicles that would be considered modified, street rods, hot rods etc. are not accepted for juding.

Same for vehicles in the car corral or flea market spaces if they are for sale. </div></div>

Look, I understand the charter and rules of the AACA. No problem. I question how the above statement applies to the vintage race cars and associated parts that I always see at Hershey. Going even further down that slippery slope, how does a Hurst/Olds or Yenko Camaro fit in? Neither were built by an established automaker. How about the new Hertz Shelby Mustangs that were for sale at Hershey?

[ted sweet]

i guess the next question is whats a modified car? my 74 cuda is stock except for an aftermarket carb and igntion. would it be removed?

[Matt Harwood]

Maybe it's like that judge who said, "I can't define what porno is, but I know it when I see it."

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ted sweet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i guess the next question is whats a modified car? my 74 cuda is stock except for an aftermarket carb and igntion. would it be removed? </div></div>

Well, it's not stock:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AACA is dedicated to the preservation of antique cars in their original state. </div></div>

I'll be honest, I'm less concerned about an aftermarket carb than I am about cloned musclecars that WERE offered for sale at Hershey in the Car Corral.

[Guest Stonefish]

This is some interesting talk here...

The terms modified and over restored (borrowed from another thread): Are they different? If you upgrade your interior from vinyl to leather...is that modified or over restored??

I'm sure we've all seen some modified cars get some awards...I know I've seen some.

[Restorer32]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and smells like a duck, it's a duck. I think everyone here can distinguish between a street rod and an AACA eligible vehicle and it's a bit ridiculous in my opinion to argue whether or not a vehicle with leather in place of vinyl or epoxy in place of lacquer qualifies a vehicle as "modified". We all know what the rule is intended to do. AACA can never be 100% successful in keeping the show field, flea market and corral "pure" but in my opinion it does a pretty good job. There are any number of street rod "Nats" for those favoring such vehicles. There is only one Hershey.

[Restorer32]

If you really want to stir things up, try taking an early restored car to a street rod event. On a lark we drove a 1915 Milburn Electric to a local cruise in. As luck would have it a newspaper reporter chose our car as the centerpoint of his article on the show. Such a fuss ensued, even bringing out letters to the editor complaining that the reporter ignored the rods in favor of the one original vehicle in attendance. Can't say we were hounded out of the show though and I doubt there was such behavior at Hershey.

[Guest Stonefish]

I only state it because I've heard such talk about award winning cars. I'm not talking street rods in the car corral...I'm talking cars on the show field, supposedly in their "from the factory" condition that are wrong. And the excuse given is..."Well, it is over restored". You are right...if it walks like a duck, quack like a duck and smells like a duck...it is a duck...a duck that is awarded on an AACA showfield.

Again...bring some consistency to the definitions and be consistent at a show.

[MCHinson]

Stonefish,

Modified is non-authentic restoration.

Over restored describes condition, primarily found as finer than original paint or bright work.

From the Judging guidelines...

There shall be no penalty or premium for

over-restoration. Over-restoration and nonauthentic restoration are not the same.

Paint with a finer finish and higher gloss than original paint would be considered

over-restoration. Chrome plating or varnishing a part which was originally painted

would be considered non-authentic restoration, and the vehicle would receive the appropriate point deduction on the judging form.

[Guest Stonefish]

Unfortunately…I've seen or know of to much of what you are calling; "modified" (Non-Authentic restoration) get awarded at AACA events and when it has been questioned to some pretty high levels one of the catch phrases applied is "it is over-restored".

[West Peterson]

To add to what Matt has said, I also don't think that AACA gets into numbers watching, and for good reason.

In other words, judges are NOT looking to make sure that ANY PARTICULAR CAR left the factory with red paint, white interior and the 233.5cid V5 engine. I could be wrong, as I'm not an AACA judge, but I think they're only interested in whether it COULD HAVE left the factory that way, and they want you to have documentation that leather (or whatever other option you want to pick) was a choice.

[MCHinson]

Ron,

I don't know you but as a Hershey resident this should be really easy for you...

I only know of one way to fix the problem that you see. Get involved! Go to judging school, ask questions, become a judge, attend CJE's, attend member rountables, write to the VP of Class Judging if you see something that you think is being done wrong. Let your concerns be known to those in charge. The way to fix problems is to get involved.

[javabug]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">His quote of: "<span style="font-style: italic">I have been attending Hershey for decades and </span><span style="font-style: italic">have always seen a presence of cars in both those</span><span style="font-style: italic"> categories</span>." obviously shows he knows not what he speaks of. </div></div>

Obviously not everybody actually spends time in the car corral. Each year there are multiple examples of cars that are quite obviously not "stock" in the car corral. That doesn't make it acceptable, but it is most definetly a reality.

[1937hd45]

This is my reply to the original post.............Hershey 2009 will be 40 in a row for me and 38 as a vendor, I am an AACA MEMBER..............I'm also Adicted to the HAMB website and have read all about the guy and the Model T Ford STREET ROD he tried to get into THE CAR CORRALL. I have NO PITY for a guy who CAN NOT READ the rules of an AACA meet or ANY meet for that matter. Modified cars ARE NOT allowed in AACA National meets as show cars (UNLESS they are CERTIFIED RACE CARS Class 24A). As far as I know anything that has license plates in the state the owner lives in can be driven to Hershey and he can sell CAR PARTS and services out of it in THE FLEA MARKET. HOWEVER said vehicle CAN NOT carry a FOR SALE sine on it. I have restored cars and own Hot Rods as well, and get along just fine with most people. The guy that started the discussion on the HAMB was way out of line, and isn't worth the time it took me to type this reply. If you know him tell him to try eBay or GoodGuys or the local paper to dump his ride.

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I think everyone here can distinguish between a street rod and an AACA eligible vehicle ...</div></div>

Really? So is a 1973 Nickey Nova, with a dealer-installed big block Chevy (that was never offered from the factory) a modified rod or an AACA eligible vehicle? It was sold though a legitimate dealership but it was not factory assembled. And if the answer is it's not eligible, how does that then compare with coach-built bodies on factory frames? That's not "modified"?

And I still go back to my original question, which is, are the vintage race cars and parts, usually found in the rows at the end of the stadium, "modified" or not?

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe_padavano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is a 1973 Nickey Nova, with a dealer-installed big block Chevy (that was never offered from the factory) a modified rod or an AACA eligible vehicle? It was sold though a legitimate dealership but it was not factory assembled. </div></div>

Yes. I think so. Plus there is a high-performance class in AACA. I know they accept the Yenkos, but before trying to enter something like this you should contact the Vice President of Class Judging.

AACA allows for dealer-installed items as long as they were factory backed. It's the Corvette "Bloomington Gold" judging rules that do not allow you to have any dealer-installed items.

[junkyardjeff]

If you have to be a member of the AACA to be a vender I doubt I will ever sell there as I dont own any completely original vehicles,I tinker with them so they can drive at highway speeds and stop better. I dont own a trailer so everything I have needs to be able to go on the highway so I have to slightly modify them and I am not into rat rods so mine have a stock body and look (except for wheels sometimes),I dont show my vehicles in a judged shows locally any way so there is no way I would show any at Hershey plus mine are not that nice to show. If I would become a member of the AACA and sell at Hershey I would not want someone yelling at me and chasing me down with a golf cart telling me to get out of there after I paid to sell (doubt I could ever get a space) so I was just wanting to know what the deal was. Jeff

[MCHinson]

Junkyardjeff,

I hope you took the time to read all of the comments. Hopefully, they will enable you to better understand the issue. I was not there, so I cannot tell you exactly what happened, but it sounds to me like the original poster on the HAMB site may have not explained the whole story exactly like it happened.

I will try to paraphrase, what somebody already said somewhere about this issue.

There are usually 3 sides to any story. The first guy's story. The second guy's story... and the truth that lies somewhere between the two.

I won't try to start another fight here about your "need" to "slightly modify them", "so they can drive at highway speeds and stop better", because I believe... to each his own, even though I prefer my cars in original condition.

I would welcome you to check out all of the discussions on this forum. Feel free to read and post here. You should even consider joining AACA. I am sure we can probably find somebody to give you a sample of the club's magazine. As a "car guy", I think you would like it. The magazine itself if worth the price of the membership. Thanks for making us aware of the discussion. It was interesting to read it all.... even though I really need to fix me some pierogies now....

[Guest Bluesky636]

Even though I never intend to show my car at Hershey, do my chrome smoothies w/Baby Moons and non-stock steering wheel prohibit me from entering DPC class? What does "significantly modified mean?"

DRIVER PARTICIPATION CLASS (DPC)

The AACA Board of Directors in 2000 established DPC to promote the showing and driving of antique vehicles which are not intended by their owners to be show vehicles and are described as "Drivers."

This class is for vehicles 25 years of age or older that have not obtained a national first prize. (A vehicle with national awards is eligible for DPC only if the awards - other than 2nd or 3rd Junior - are turned into AACA Headquarters.) This is a non-competitive class and will not be point judged, but vehicles will be certified upon passing a visual inspection. Certification will be based on vehicle components that have the same

appearance as when the vehicle was manufactured

and the overall condition of the vehicle in general appears acceptable. The exterior/

interior/engine/chassis components must be period correct per the original manufacturer. The following are exceptions that will not disqualify

the vehicle: seat belts, turn signals, stop

lights, sealed beam/halogen headlights, radial

tires, radio upgrades, electrical upgrades, air

conditioning, overdrive system and altered exhausts. A DPC badge will be issued to each vehicle upon certification and a participation

award will be given at certification and at each subsequent meet for attendance. After five participation awards are received, the

accompanying participation cards should be

completed and mailed to AACA Headquarters. A mounting board will be mailed from AACA Headquarters after confirmation of the five participation awards. No vehicle will be re-certified if it is not displaying the DPC badge. A DPC certified vehicle that is significantly modified will lose its’ DPC certification. DPC certification remains with the vehicle even if there is a change of ownership. (see Attachment 6 - DPC Judging Form - page 49).

[1937hd45]

Matt, I'm glad you took the time to read the thread on the HAMB, even if it is a low point in HAMB topics IMO. Most threads are very helpful and friendly, and the racing and history threads are the best on the internet. Glad it has turned into a pierogie discussion.

[MCHinson]

Bill, I don't know the answer to your question. The VP of Class Judging can answer your question. You may contact him at the following address:

Joseph S. Vicini

3 Robins Nest Drive

Perrineville, NJ 08535

Jvicini@aol.com

[junkyardjeff]

I did not read all of the postings about the incident and probably should but it got me thinking that if I did show up with my slightly modified 37 p/u that I too would encounter the same treatment,I know the AACA is about original vehicles and I can appriciate that I would never try to show any of my vehicles at their shows but I understand those who want to keep everything original and I would hope restorers would understand that I want to improve some things on mine and make it to my liking. If what he said was true then I hope it was a rare encounter and not all restorers are angry at those who modify their vehicles. Jeff

[junkyardjeff]

Now if I took a choice old car and made a rat rod out of it then I could understand how a restorer could be angry and if I done that then someone should shoot me. Jeff

[1937hd45]

Jeff, I would think your '37 pickup loaded with parts to sell in the flea market would be just fine. It isn't always about the vehicle the ATTITUDE of the owner plays a big part. I can think of a few vehicles that are Hershey regulars, mid 1930's commercial vehickes on F-350 chassis, and the B Model Mack that has been cut down to a 3/4 scale copy with a buffed aluminum ribbed trailer that hides the RV trailer inside it. There is a lot of cool stuff, not everyone in AACA is into show cars, some of us are into it for fun.

[MCHinson]

Jeff, I really don't think that his story was 100% accurate. If you read here, you should have already seen photographic proof of modified vehicles being used as transportation by vendors at Hershey last year.

If, however you wanted to enter a modified vehicle in the show, or wanted to sell a modified vehicle in the car corral, you would be violating the rules, and should be told that you could not do that. You would probably be asked to remove the vehicle from the car corral or the showfield.

Any concerns that you would incur anger or have problems with anybody would be as close to totally unfounded as I can imagine. I guess you could say that there is always one in every bunch, but most AACA members that I have encountered are very easy to get along with. Most of our members are older than I am but my family is active in AACA because of the people, not the cars.

[1937hd45]

Here is a topic that should be addressed, I DON'T KNOW if it is true or not but it was mentioned on the HAMB site. If you are an AACA member and drive all the way to Hershey in a modified vehicle loaded with parts to sell in your flea market spot, I see nothing different in that vehicle than a 2008 pickup. It was said that the flea market stickers were removed by HERSHEY REGION members from some of these vehicles. How do they drive to their motel, or out to dinner and get back in to the flea market? Sure this is a HANDFUL of vehicles, but I don't think it is right to peal off stickers just because you don't like the looks of the vehicle.

[MCHinson]

I would suggest that anybody who experienced that needs to contact the Hershey Region to get to the bottom of this allegation. I agree that this sounds like something that should not happen. If I remember correctly everything that I read (which is unlikely), I think that the cars in question may have had for sale signs displayed, which caused the problem. If this is what caused the problem, having the owner remove the for sale sign would seem to be the appropriate remedy.

[junkyardjeff]

I have never seen any pics of the event and never been there but would like to attend,all the swapmeets around here have been getting a bunch of later model parts in it which I do not need so its time for me to go to Hershey and see what its about. Jeff

[MCHinson]

Jeff,

Look at the photo of the truck in the third response to your initial posting in this thread. Wayne posted it to show you that Modified vehicles are not in any danger at Hershey (as long as they are not attempted to be entered in the show or in the Car Corral).

[Guest Bluesky636]

What about clones?

Does AACA verify a vehicle's VIN against the actual configuration of the car?

What if I cloned my Z-Code Galaxie into an R-Code? Would anyone check to see if it was a real R-Code? It obviously has been modified considerably from the way it rolled out of the factory, but would anyone know?

I sure many people read the article in Hemmings Muscle Machines some months back about the person that built a perfect convertible Camaro Z-28. A car Chevy never produced. He even went so far as to create aged, fake documentation. What if someone unscrupulous showed up at a national event with that car and documentation? What would AACA do?