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Ediqute/courtsey question


abh3usn
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You don't need an expert. Just read the Judging Guidelines:

d. The team captain will open hoods in absence

of the owner. The interior judge will open

and close doors very carefully. Do not enter

a vehicle and sit when judging interiors.

Lean in and observe the interior from each

side of the vehicle. Removal of "on location"

documentation items is the only exception

to "hands-off" judging. Chassis judges must

not crawl completely under a vehicle. Kneel

down and look under the vehicle.

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My advice is check with Joe Vicini and ask how many complaints they have ever had regarding this issue.

Rules are in place for a reason. We follow them. Owners have the right, as I have stated here more than once, to dictate who may touch their cars. They do that by being there to let us know what those rules are. If they walk away then we go by the rules set down by the AACA.....period.

I take it you do not show and do not judge so you are not directly involved in the process.

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i'll preface this by saying... i haven't shown at an AACA meet, i dont plan to show at an AACA meet, and it is highly doubtful that i will ever judge at an AACA meet....

i will however say... that if i ever saw ANYone, touching my vehicle, opening my doors, etc. and i had not authorized it, regardless of what color hat they were wearing, there would be some immediate issues to address. ESPECIALLY if i had a "do not touch" sign in place.

in my 15+ years of showing various types of vehicles, in various types of environments, i have NEVER heard anything so ludicrious as a judge opening a car up to view / judge it.

and that... is the rest... of the story

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'll preface this by saying... i haven't shown at an AACA meet, i dont plan to show at an AACA meet, and it is highly doubtful that i will ever judge at an AACA meet....

i will however say... that if i ever saw ANYone, touching my vehicle, opening my doors, etc. and i had not authorized it, regardless of what color hat they were wearing, there would be some immediate issues to address. ESPECIALLY if i had a "do not touch" sign in place.

in my 15+ years of showing various types of vehicles, in various types of environments, i have NEVER heard anything so ludicrious as a judge opening a car up to view / judge it.</div></div>Not trying to sound nasty, but if you don't intend to show your car at an AACA national meet, and you don't plan to judge at an AACA national meet, then why would you debate an issue that doesn't apply to you??

It really doesn't make sense to argue about something that will never affect you.....

This would be like me going onto the NCRS website and blast them for their judging procedures when I don't own a Corvette.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Pimptastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'll preface this by saying... i haven't shown at an AACA meet, i dont plan to show at an AACA meet, and it is highly doubtful that i will ever judge at an AACA meet....</div></div>

Aw come on, we don't bite. whistle.gifsmile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will however say... that if i ever saw ANYone, touching my vehicle, opening my doors, etc. and i had not authorized it, regardless of what color hat they were wearing, there would be some immediate issues to address.</div></div>

You authorize it by coming onto the show field if you leave your vehicle unattended with the hood(s)down, the trunk shut and the doors closed (most doors are shut until judging begins, most hoods and trunks are already open) and you don't leave a note or tell someone close to the vehicle. <span style="color: #FF0000">It is the responsibility of the owner to let the Team Captain know if they will not be there. </span> Trust me when I tell you this, I would <span style="font-weight: bold">NEVER </span>violate the wishes of the owner if they are expressed to me, or let any member of a team I am Team Captain of touch the vehicle if the owner left word not to do so. But I have to know.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ESPECIALLY if i had a "do not touch" sign in place.</div></div>

Do that and there is no issue to deal with. "Do not touch" means just that to anyone that reads it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in my 15+ years of showing various types of vehicles, in various types of environments, i have NEVER heard anything so ludicrious as a judge opening a car up to view / judge it.</div></div>

That is because, as you said, you have not had a vehicle in an AACA show. You probably missed my post about it, but I had another judge give me the keys to his car down at the Charlotte show just this spring so that I could open it and then re-lock it when we were done. That was a first. cool.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and that... is the rest... of the story </div></div>

And now you know a bit more about this side of the story. Like I said, come join the fun.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: javabug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DNJ card should be blue? What, then, is up with the white one I saw on Saturday? </div></div>

I also noticed that there was an off white DNJ card being used. No one our team, including the captain, had seen them before. We did verify that they did not have judging sheets and were listed on our list as DNJ.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ]Not trying to sound nasty, but if you don't intend to show your car at an AACA national meet, and you don't plan to judge at an AACA national meet, then why would you debate an issue that doesn't apply to you??

It really doesn't make sense to argue about something that will never affect you.....

This would be like me going onto the NCRS website and blast them for their judging procedures when I don't own a Corvette. </div></div>

i was not trying to argue. thanks for taking it THAT direction. I was trying to get a better grasp as to what is going on. some of what i've been reading sounds so off the wall, it is almost laughable. i have NEVER heard of judges opening up cars before. EVER.

the main reason i won't show at an aaca event, is that plain and simple, i don't drive stock vehicles. every single vehicle i own, or have owned, has been modified to some extent. thus not fitting in with the "kool kids" (please note the sarcasm in that comment) and their super clean restorations. i'm a car enthusiast. plain and simple. i like the restored superbird as much as the body dropped s-10 on 20" wheels. i like cars. i like car shows. i like to see other peoples ideas come to fruition.

if you took it as a blast, towards you or the judging personally. well so be it. it was not intented in that manner.

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Being as you are into modified rather than restored vehicles, and there are people here that have them and street rods as well as orginal or restored vehicles, you would not understand how we do things or why. And that is okay that you don't.

What is not okay is to come onto our forums sponsored and paid for by the AACA and it's members and try to insult us. And it really is insulting to refer to us the way you did as the "kool kids" with the special note to make sure we understood you are being sarcastic by doing so.

Trouble makers are not tolerated here. Moderators keep a tight rein on what goes on here.

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once again, someone 100% misunderstood what i was saying.

that comment was made in a tounge in cheek fashion, and it got blown out of proportion.

i am not a troublemaker, and i make not plans to be one.

so because i am into modified cars, as opposed to "100% bone stock original cars" (which by the way, several of the cars i noticed this past weekend that won things most likely should not have - <span style="font-style: italic">in my opinion</span>) so now i can't come here, gain knowledge, and share stories as i delve further into the depths of the archived web forum, all without now having the <span style="color: #FF0000">scarlet T</span> (for troublemaker) assigned to me?

I am truley flabbergasted, and slightly disheartened. I spoke at great lengths the other day via pm, with someone (of apparently high ranking nature) who truley seemed to understand what i was asking, and where i was coming from with my questions. you however, ms shop rat, seem to not quite grasp that concept.

however it seems as though this may not be the place to be for me. I figured with something like the aaca, the museum, and all things hershey just a stones throw from my backyard - and just finding out about the forums this past weekend - that maybe i jumped to one too many conclusions.

And for the record, I too am insulted. the last time i checked, this was a free forum, and that i don't need to be a paying club member of the aaca to have joined and post here. I notice again as i re-read my thoughts, that the tag line i quoted above, says nothing about stock or modified... it mentions (in CAPITAL letters) ALL automobiles.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Antique Automobile Club of America discussion forum is a FREE online community for those interested in exchanging information about ALL antique, classic, and collectible automobiles. AACA membership IS NOT required to register. Explore, read, contribute, and enjoy! </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you would not understand how we do things or why </div></div>

is this some sort of secret club that i need to know the secret handshake to get into then using your logic? if so, how will i ever find out the secret handshake if it is a secret? so i guess reading, and posting questions is one way to NOT understand things, correct?

FYI "kool kids" was meant as a joke, to somewhat lighten the mood, which apparently has backfired (much like several of the vehicles i heard starting on Saturday). maybe i should have followed it with a "ha ha" (but then you would have jumped on the "oh no, he is laughing at us" bandwagon)

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Pimptastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so because i am into modified cars, as opposed to "100% bone stock original cars" (which by the way, several of the cars i noticed this past weekend that won things most likely should not have - <span style="font-style: italic">in my opinion</span>) I am truley flabbergasted, and slightly disheartened. I spoke at great lengths the other day via pm, with someone (of apparently high ranking nature) who truley seemed to understand what i was asking, and where i was coming from with my questions. you however, ms shop rat, seem to not quite grasp that concept.</div></div>

Actually I think she grasped it quite well.

I assume by the show last weekend, you meant Hershey? If you don't understand our judging; how can you understand why some cars win and others don't? Before I started to compete seriously I would look at my car and think "surely I should have beat that car" but it wasn't until I started seeing what judges were looking fro (became one myself and learned through on-the-job training) and found out that a car can look good but be wrong and a car can be "not so flashy" and be totally correct.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Pimptastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">however it seems as though this may not be the place to be for me. I figured with something like the aaca, the museum, and all things hershey just a stones throw from my backyard - and just finding out about the forums this past weekend - that maybe i jumped to one too many conclusions.</div></div>

I think this is a place for any person who enjoys car BUT just like every other club, we have a way things are done and have been done for years. Many of the folks here like stock, original cars and we enjoy showing them. And part fo that showing is that we accpet the rules as they are stated. If I don't like the rules, I simply don't show my car - I don't come here and tell everyone how wrong the rules are. And again, I have two Senior Cars and I have no problem with the rules that hte judges can open the doors, etc. and I have yet to have one damage my car in any form or fashion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Pimptastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And for the record, I too am insulted. the last time i checked, this was a free forum, and that i don't need to be a paying club member of the aaca to have joined and post here. I notice again as i re-read my thoughts, that the tag line i quoted above, says nothing about stock or modified... it mentions (in CAPITAL letters) ALL automobiles.</div></div>

Yea, it is free but it also has rules and coming in here telling all of us how "stupid" we are for allowing certain things to take place at a show will not make many friends.

.

.

.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Pimptastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you would not understand how we do things or why </div></div>

is this some sort of secret club that i need to know the secret handshake to get into then using your logic? if so, how will i ever find out the secret handshake if it is a secret? so i guess reading, and posting questions is one way to NOT understand things, correct? </div></div>

Pay your annual dues to AACA and we will give you the secret handshake smile.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob Hill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assume by the show last weekend, you meant Hershey? If you don't understand our judging; how can you understand why some cars win and others don't? Before I started to compete seriously I would look at my car and think "surely I should have beat that car" but it wasn't until I started seeing what judges were looking fro (became one myself and learned through on-the-job training) and found out that a car can look good but be wrong and a car can be "not so flashy" and be totally correct. </div></div>

Yes, I was referring to Hershey.

When one sees blatantly obvious things that are nowhere near stock, and even to the untrained eye it is noticible, that is where i question things. it was not a "well this car is obviously nicer" and should have won mentality i was thinking... but a "wow, i can't believe that THAT placed, especially with X, Y and Z sticking out like sore thumbs" Maybe next year I will bring out my 1980 vehicle which i have not had the chance to modify yet. it is 100% bone stock (unless rust, and fiberglass counts as a modification). it runs, all of the doors open and close, and even the dash is uncracked.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob Hill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think this is a place for any person who enjoys car BUT just like every other club, we have a way things are done and have been done for years. Many of the folks here like stock, original cars and we enjoy showing them. And part fo that showing is that we accpet the rules as they are stated. If I don't like the rules, I simply don't show my car - I don't come here and tell everyone how wrong the rules are. And again, I have two Senior Cars and I have no problem with the rules that hte judges can open the doors, etc. and I have yet to have one damage my car in any form or fashion.</div></div>

aside from getting the "become a judge" lecture, how is the layman supposed to know what the rules are if they don't ask? you (plural, not you as in "you" Bob Hill) keep saying about the stock original cars... not once did i not say i did not appreciate them. i do. very much so. why is it that you think i found myself on the grassy knoll on saturday then? it wasn't to buy a $7 cheeseburger, and i surely wasn't there to see a pimped out ride of any sort. all i was getting at, is that as with some of the other posters in here i find it very odd that someone can open a vehicle that is not theres. plain and simple.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob Hill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea, it is free but it also has rules and coming in here telling all of us how "stupid" we are for allowing certain things to take place at a show will not make many friends.</div></div>

wrong. never said that anyone is stupid. stupid is as stupid does. see my paragraph above. i believe there is some reading betwixt the lines here now. am i not entitled to express my own opinion on things? i know now i am coming across like the racoon that has been backed into the corner, feeling the need to defend every step i make. being on edge. thinking thru every single post i make from this point out... oh dear, will someone read into what i am saying in a manner other than originally intended? i did not sign up (metaphorically speaking) for that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob Hill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pay your annual dues to AACA and we will give you the secret handshake smile.gif </div></div>

we shall see about that. we shall see. a fool and his money are soon parted. (that is a joke. laugh. laugh.giflaugh.gif it was meant to be funny)

i will say it again and again. i am not here to mock, pick on, ridicule, make fun of, poke a stick at, etc, etc, etc towards anyone. I'm a car guy. period. I also need a drink. a strong one. make it a double. a double on the double.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob Hill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pay your annual dues to AACA and we will give you the secret handshake smile.gif </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Pimptastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> we shall see about that. we shall see.</div></div>

It is a truly great group. And that is NOT to say that other groups aren't. But you must understand, we do not push non-AACA agendas here. Modified cars, street rods, rat rods, etc. are non-AACA venues. If you want to know something about your vehicles that we can help with by all means ask. There are even specialty forums for different makes. And the AACA Library and Research Center in Hershey is a wonderful resource for orginal information and documentation.

If you would like to know more about the rules then check out the link for the 2008 Judging Guideline. Or you can get one from a local member that no longer needs theirs. Heck if you want one, I will mail mine to you since we have two and we won't be at anymore shows this year. There are a few things regarding judging that may not be in the book, they are taught year after year in judging school. You can sign up and go to one and get a copy of the guidlines for free. There is no cost for the class. And the CJE of your choice and get additonal information with regards to how we go about judging vehicles according to AACA standards. However, to get credit for classes you must be an AACA member. A non-member can "audit" the courses. smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will say it again and again. i am not here to mock, pick on, ridicule, make fun of, poke a stick at, etc, etc, etc towards anyone. I'm a car guy. period.</div></div>

That's what we want and need here. People that love vehicles.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also need a drink. a strong one. make it a double. a double on the double. </div></div>

Now there is an idea with merit. grin.gif

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Don't hold your breath on the secret handshake. I joined in 2002 an still haven't received mine. I was surprised how little info seemed available to new members upon joining, especially pertaining to showing your car at a national meet. I had to laugh at Mr Pimtastic's line about the secret handshake as I have used that same line on many members of the AACA since joining. I don't know why the AACA can't send info out to someone who's registered their vehicle but hasn't shown previously at a national meet. Since you have to mark the box if you've ever shown at a national meet before on the registration form it'd be easy to tell who's new to the AACA and who's not. Maybe it'd clear up some of the confusion of having hoods and trunks open, windows up and floor mats removed. Some people are surprised when they come for the first time that they can't unload their vehicle ON the show field. Different organzations have different rules, some of us not new to judging just the AACA. And before someone asks, my 'cuda is a Grand National winner.

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I found this here on the web-site under Policies and Procedures Manual.

<span style="color: #3333FF">"5.2.4 Showing a Vehicle

Meet entrants pick up their registration packets prior to placing their vehicle on the judging field, as indicated in the

meet brochure. The packet will contain meet information, tickets for social activities and the Awards Banquet (as

requested), windshield card, judging form and trophy pickup form (if no Awards Banquet tickets are purchased).

The windshield card and judging form should be the same color.

The vehicle should be taken to the show field during the time period indicated on the meet brochure, usually

between 7:00 and 11:00 a.m. The vehicle must be driven onto the field (except for race cars and motorcycles which

may be driven onto the judging field if they can be operated safely by the owner, otherwise these vehicles may be

pushed) at the designated show field entrance, where participation plaques will be given to the entrant. The vehicle

must be parked in the specified show field location as directed by the hosts. The windshield card should be

prominently displayed and the judging form should be on the front seat or other suitable obvious place. The fire

extinguisher must be displayed in a visible location, hoods and trunks opened, windows and convertible tops in the

"up" position.

Judging will begin at 11:00 a.m. (or sooner, if required) and the entrant or designated representative should remain

with the vehicle to answer any questions. The vehicle must remain on the show field until 3:00 p.m. or until

released by the Chief Judge. Failure to comply with this requirement will result in disqualification.

The entrant is encouraged to attend the Awards Banquet. If the entrant does not attend the banquet, the National

Meet Award Pick-up Form should be completed in order to let a friend pick up any award presented for

the vehicle."</span>

There is a lot more information about the AACA there. Check it out if you like.

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The best source of information for the new member is found in a local chapter or region. In my experience, your first one or two national events can be a little stressful. It was a little easier on me because another local chapter member told me a little bit of what to expect. He also gave me a brochure that explained a lot of what to expect at a national show. I remember that at my first national show, there were a few things that I still had to ask about, such as some of the details about trailer parking. It is probably impossible to totally prepare a new member for his/her first national show, but in my experience, your fellow club members are more than helpful if you just ask. The people in this hobby make it a great hobby.

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I think another point is that the guidelines for judges is just that a guideline. Every judge cannot be versed or an expert in every car. This past weekend I was called on to judge 1957 cars, Studebakers, Nash, Cadillac, Chrysler etc and since my interest and specialty is the 20's car I was out of my area of comfort. But that is why they have a basic guideline on what to look for. I can look at a Durant product or a Triumph TR6 which I own and can tell you what is factory and what is aftermarket but show me a 27 Graham or Essex and I can only look and guess what is period correct. If I have a doubt, I have the Team Captain ask the owner for documentation. With so many makes, models and years how can anybody be an expert on all. The AACA has a hard enough time getting people to judge at these events anyway. The hours are sometimes long, and the pay is, well we know what the pay is so the people who judge just love to look at the cars, learn from the restorations others have done and want to help the AACA anyway they can. As far as opening doors and hoods, I would have no problem with anyone on the judging team opening my doors or hoods on my cars. They are car owners and lovers and I know they will respect my property and admire the time, work and money that went into the restorations or maintenance of the cars.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i was not trying to argue. thanks for taking it THAT direction. I was trying to get a better grasp as to what is going on. some of what i've been reading sounds so off the wall, it is almost laughable. i have NEVER heard of judges opening up cars before. EVER.</div></div> I'm not trying to argue either. I'll try to explain this in a way not to offend you or anyone else.

If you don't want a judge touching your car you have three choices:

1. Enter your car as a DO Not Judge.

2. Be there when you're vehicle is being judged so we don't have to touch your car.

3. Don't bring a fire extinguisher and be immediately disqualified.

It's that simple.

Judges don't just touch anyone's vehicle because we want to. We most often touch a person's car because the owner is not present, and the car needs to be judged. The three items that I just listed above will prevent any judge from touching your vehicle. I for one have never just walked up and started going though a person's vehicle without trying to find and speak to the owner. Most times the team captain asks the owner to touch the vehicle, but if they're not around, the judging team will do what needs to be done.

If you are not familiar with our judging system, we judge our vehicles on a 400 point system. The 400 point system is broke down the following ways:

1. Exterior - 100 points.

2. Interior - 100 points.

3. Engine - 100 points.

4. Chassis - 100 points.

You have one judge assisgned to judge each area and a team captain that adds up the deductions and determintes the final score. That's our judging system.

If you are showing your vehicle on our showfield, you leave your hood down, and you don't want the judge's to open your hood and judge your engine, do you want us to take the full 100 point deduction for no engine?? If we take the full 100 point deduction, you will not win any awards at all. If your vehicle is the best vehicle in its' class, and we take 100 points off of your engine do you really think this is good for the club?? If we give you the award when we had to do this, is it fair to the other car owners who had their vehicles ready for judging??

It appears that you have an issue with our judging system, but it appears that the cause of your issues is due to you not knowing the system. Our guidelines are on this web for you and everyone to review, and many of the issues that you're asking about are also mentioned on the entry form and in the packet when you arrive at a show.

Whether or not you're an AACA member is no one's choice but your own. We have a great magazine, a great museum, a good website, many meets, tours and an automotive library like none other. If you're not already a member, I would hope that you'd be interested in AACA based on that. If you've been to Hershey, you've already seen our premiere event, and I'm sure that no other club in the world that you will ever go to will have have an event that tops Hershey.

Please don't knock our system without learning the facts.

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Same as a Harley-Davidson Topper (motorscooter for those not fimilar)where you can't see the engine because of panels. I've also judges a mid eninge sports car at hershey one year where you could only see the egnine by removing the one piece trunk liner which the ower had taken out (not at the request of the judges).

In the case of the isttea, Topper and this car, it requires physical removal of a componet to access a area. It is handles the same as the removal of floorboards/seat to inspect a battery. You don't do it. Now if the onwer has removed what is in the way, bolted panel, floorboard/seat, that area is now fair game.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found this here on the web-site under Policies and Procedures Manual.

<span style="color: #3333FF">"5.2.4 Showing a Vehicle

Meet entrants pick up their registration packets prior to placing their vehicle on the judging field, as indicated in the

meet brochure. The packet will contain meet information, tickets for social activities and the Awards Banquet (as

requested), windshield card, judging form and trophy pickup form (if no Awards Banquet tickets are purchased).

The windshield card and judging form should be the same color.

The vehicle should be taken to the show field during the time period indicated on the meet brochure, usually

between 7:00 and 11:00 a.m. The vehicle must be driven onto the field (except for race cars and motorcycles which

may be driven onto the judging field if they can be operated safely by the owner, otherwise these vehicles may be

pushed) at the designated show field entrance, where participation plaques will be given to the entrant. The vehicle

must be parked in the specified show field location as directed by the hosts. The windshield card should be

prominently displayed and the judging form should be on the front seat or other suitable obvious place. The fire

extinguisher must be displayed in a visible location, hoods and trunks opened, windows and convertible tops in the

"up" position.

Judging will begin at 11:00 a.m. (or sooner, if required) and the entrant or designated representative should remain

with the vehicle to answer any questions. The vehicle must remain on the show field until 3:00 p.m. or until

released by the Chief Judge. Failure to comply with this requirement will result in disqualification.

The entrant is encouraged to attend the Awards Banquet. If the entrant does not attend the banquet, the National

Meet Award Pick-up Form should be completed in order to let a friend pick up any award presented for

the vehicle."</span>

There is a lot more information about the AACA there. Check it out if you like.</div></div>

How hard would it be to put a copy of that in with the registration form?? Or even to tell new members where they can find that information?? I've never seen that and that is my fault for not checking out the AACA website. Although not everyone has internet access.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How hard would it be to put a copy of that in with the registration form?? Or even to tell new members where they can find that information?? I've never seen that and that is my fault for not checking out the AACA website. Although not everyone has internet access.</div></div>Very true, the only problem would be for many people it would be like a broken record. Probably the best way would be to do it for the people who are going for a 1st Junior. Once you've been to a couple of meets it becomes second nature so I'm sure a lot of people don't even give it a thought.

Fred Young has at times held a class for vehicle owner's on how to present a vehicle. I don't think that happens all the time, but for first timers, it could be very helpfull.

To the defense of the organization, the rulebooks are online, they're sold at AACA meets, some things are specified on entry forms, there have been sections in the Antique Automobile where rules are discussed, the judging books are given away at Judging Schools, etc. So it isn't a deal where things are a big secret. The club does put out the information, but how much can you expect the club to do???

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When I joined last year I was sent an AACA Exhibitors brochure with my membership card. I think I got one when I sent for registration info for the Eastern Spring meet (my first national meet) this year too. It gave insight into what to expect at a national meet.

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tcuda, Bill and I have not shown a car at an AACA event, the car that we are working on is not ready yet. So I am not aware of what all is sent to owners.

It would seem, as ex98thdrill posted, that giving a copy of this to owners going for their First Junior Award would be a good idea.

We had five cars to judge at Hershey going for their First Junior in class 20e (1938-39 production vehicles excluding Fords). One had two 1938 Texaco maps on his front seat and a ton of stuff in the trunk of the car when I did the first pre-judging walk around. The owner was not there, mad dash for the "facilities" according to his buddies that were with him blush.gif , so I told them to let him know that the maps, umbrella, jacket and all the materials in the trunk would have to be removed by the time we actually started judging.

One guy had taken the judging sheet off of the windshield card and put it into the envelope he was given, he had no idea what the sheet was and he accidentally hid it.

Not one of them knew about the AACA web-site much less these forums. But they do now after I talked with them.

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That's all I was trying to say. There is a box on the request form for "Have you ever shown at National Meet?", correct? That would tell AACA Headquarters who and who would not need a copy and cut down on mailing it out to veterns. The ONLY paperwork in my registration packet at my first National show in 2002 (Hershey) was my windowcard/judging sheet, list of all registered show vehicles, name tags and my two tickets to the banquet. I actually expected more, like a map of the show field and directions onto the field ( kudos to whoever put them in this year...way overdue). I'm also not one to throw things away, so even if I failed to read something beforehand I would have read it after the show and realised my mistake.

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Maybe it would be good to put a basic list of "To Dos" on the front, or even the back where the flap of the envelope is so that they see it for sure when they open the packet, of the envelope that owners get as their registration packet at the show.

That way it does not get lost in all that paperwork. I think that first timers can be overwhelmed with it all. Too much to do and too much to read.

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At all the meets I have been to, there has been an owners meeting prior to the start of judging. Owners were informed what to expect and how to get their cars ready.

I would also think that, if one is planning to show a car at a meet, one would do the research and find out what is expected.

Additionally, much of what is being discussed is a moot point in this particular case - the main objections are coming from someone who is not an AACA member, so he would not be able to show a car at a national meet anyway. So is all of this discussion focussed on local regional meets? If so, as we all know, national guidelines don't necessarily apply.

Jim Eccleston

1961 Coupe de Ville

BATILAC

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actually any point that i brought up could benefit ANYone showing a car. member of the aaca or not. so no, i would not call it a moot point.

if anything, it has opened up additional discussion that may otherwise have not happened.

have a great friday! it's a wonderful fall day, here in CePA!

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quadfins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I thought we were on the AACA website, discussing AACA judging rules on AACA members cars at AACA shows.

Jim Eccleston

1961 Coupe de Ville

BATILAC </div></div>

Great point!! That is what should be discussed here, AACA rules and procedures by people trained and educated in what they are and why. Change comes from inside. Not from outsiders telling us we are doing it wrong according to their way of thinking when they admit they know nothing about AACA.

However, we welcome people that truly want to learn about the AACA and what it can offer them as antique vehicle owners.

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