Steve Moskowitz Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Just taking a few minutes out from replacing the windshield on my 1908 due to a spectator's carelessness in Moline. I guess "crap happens but why me!". Anyway, despite the rain and the accident it sure was an interesting meet. Lots of great cars and probably the best collection of 50's and 60's cars I have seen in a long while.<P>It was great seeing old friends again and the fact that my neighbor in the meet, Paul Jonas, taught me something about brass cars I did not know made it all worthwhile. After the trophy gathers dust the knowledge hopefully will remain and I can show others Paul's "little trick". <P>Still looking for another brass Olds so if you happen to open some barn and find an early Olds give me a shout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Sorry to hear about your windshield. May I ask what happened? <P><BR>Did you get an address to send the bill to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I agree that the Moline meet was great. We were told the location was new as compared to previous meets there and "The Commons" is a super place to show off the cars. <BR>The members of the Mississippi Valley Region did an outstanding job from the Thursday night reception to the good-bye wave on Sunday morning. WHen was the last time you had a smorgasboard of food like the one on Thursday night? Congratulations, folks!<BR>Patt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted August 22, 2001 Author Share Posted August 22, 2001 Novaman, the "gentleman" looking at my car managed to cram his head underneath the rear view mirror (Brass car with rearview mirror attached to outside windshield frame) and suddently stood up...hit the mirror hard which torque the windshield frame and shattered the glass! It was bad enough he did not apologize or offer (i would not have accepted) to take care of matter.....instead all he seemed concerned about was his head! he probably will now sue me for not having a sign warning about the danger of looking at brass cars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Steve ~ You will probably be hearing from the law firm of Dewey, Dickem & Howe shortly.<P>How could you be so irresponsible as to put such a dangerous obsticle in the way of an innocent citizen. You should be ashamed of yourself. ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Maybe we need to establish a 10 day waiting period on rear view mirrors!<P>You know, lethal and all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Dear Mr Nut:<P>In due course you will hear from our firm regarding your totally unacceptable act of placing a rear view mirror within 8" of another part of your vehicle, whereby our client, Mr. Stupid, was able to sustain serious, painful and permanent injuries<BR>while in the presence of your vehicle. Your complete lack of social responsibility is inexcusable.<P>Sincerely:<P>I. Will Dickem, Esq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I am sooooo honked off at you old car people. While I have contacted my lawyer Mr. Dickem to handle legal matters, I am quite shocked that the general safety of the public was totally disregarded. How could you allow an automobile design that first entices spectators to take a close look and then causes injury? I can assure that not only will I seek compensation for the injury to my small-bore head, but I will notify the proper federal auto safety officials of this hazard. Have a nice day!<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Your lucky they got the elderly couple stopped before they wiped out some cars and people. Somehow they managed to go in between the cones at the entrance to main street and were driving there new jelly bean car up the street between the antique cars which were facing each other. This was the section that was narrow.You should have seen the look on there face as the AACA workers explained that the road was closed (main street) for a car show. I do not know what they could have been thinking with all the people and cars you could not even see the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted August 23, 2001 Share Posted August 23, 2001 Some people <P>As for you guys at Dewey, Dickem & Howe. You guys are going after the wrong persons. You need to be suing God on the behalf of the intelligent people of the world for making so many people that lack common sense. <P>I think we need to start taking the labels off things like:<P>Do not use hair drier in the shower.<P>caution: unplug device before servicing.<P>"Warning: To minimize the risk of eye injury, always use eye protection." on a package of screwdriver bits. <P>Heck if we took these labels off and the people with no common sense die because they are idiots for doing this kind of stuff, the world would be a better place. After all isn't it survival of the fitest? Don't common sense count in there too?<P>There is no poltical agenda here. Just mere observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted August 23, 2001 Share Posted August 23, 2001 I wandered up to oldscarnut's Olds just after the incident. He appeared to be remarkable calm for a man with smoke coming out of his ears! His explanation above did not quite tell the whole story, however. When he said crammed his head under the mirror, he meant the "gentleman" got his head between the mirror and the sidelamp, a space of about 8 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted August 23, 2001 Author Share Posted August 23, 2001 NOTE TO DEWEY, DICKUM AND HOWE: I AM VERY SORRY TO INFORM YOU THAT ANY ATTEMPTS TO PURSUE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST MR. OLDSCARNUT WILL BE IN VAIN. YOU SEE, TODAY HE EXCITEDLY ATEMPTED TO REPLACE THE GLASS IN HIS WINDSHIELD ALONG WITH MAKING A NEW GASKET FOR THE GLASS. AFTER, SEVERAL HOURS OF PAINSTAKING WORK AND CAREFULLY CUTTING OFF THE EXCESS GASKET MATERIAL HE FOUND OUT THAT THE NEW GLASS WAS CUT WRONG. THE LAST TIME WE SAW HIM HE WAS RUNNING DOWN THE STREET SCREAMING, PULLING HIS HAIR AND MUMBLING SOMETHING ABOUT HOW MANY WARNING LABELS HE WILL HAVE TO PUT ON HIS DANGEROUS AUTOMOBILE. WE BELIEVE OLDSCARNUT IS NOW INCOMPETENT TO STAND TRIAL (EVEN MORESO THAN BEFORE) AND HIS FAMILY IS IN THE PROCESS OF LIQUIDATING ALL HIS MEAGER ASSETS. SINCERELY, THE EMPLOYEES OF CLASSIC OLDSMOBILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John N. Packard Posted August 24, 2001 Share Posted August 24, 2001 Disregarding the unusual circumstances that led to the shattered windshield glass, might there be other possibilities of someone or thing striking the mirror leading to the same result? Perhaps mounting the mirror to the windshield is potentially hazardous. <BR>jnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted August 24, 2001 Author Share Posted August 24, 2001 Just finished my latest round of shock-therapy treatments and have been taking loads of valium. I feel much better. typing is a little slow but i guess it is a small price to pay. I guess now I should remove my top and leave the mirror off and just turn around to see! probably should remove my spare tire carrier, rear bow holders etc. Hey in 30 years in this hobby this was the first time anything "serious" happened....well there was the incident i threw a spectator in the river in Lansing, Michigan. That's another story when i was younger and stupider! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 Steve ~ A little input from a long retired glassman, me.<P>Originally when that windshield was made it was glazed with 1/4" plate glass. Now that stuff can kill or seriously maim you when it is struck by a flying object or during an accident. In 1912 the Safetee Glass Co of Philadelphia invented and produced laminated safety glass. However it was not until the '30s that its use became popular and finally mandatory.<P>What you had in your windshield was no doubt laminated safety glass which is composed of 2 pieces of 1/8" glass bound together by a .015 [maybe .030] layer of vinyl acetate.<P>While this is safer and will not shatter when hit, it lacks the twisting strength of a solid piece of 1/4" glass. Had you had 1/4" plate in the frame, it probably would have resisted the force of the twist and not cracked.<P>Many of you may have seen or experienced cracked windwings on restored cars, which have cracked at the mounting points. Solid plate glass windwings as they were originally manufactured, did not crack in this manner but shattered when struck hard or in an accident. I personally cracked so many of the laminated windwings, that I reverted to solid plate glass. The only thing I added was to have them TEMPERED.<BR>I have never had a problem since.<P>This may just be more information on this subject that most of you ever wanted or needed to know. <P>hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 hvs,<P>I am finally getting around to getting the plate glass side windows of my car updated to something safer. Some of the local glass places say I need to have tempered glass. Some say I must have safety glass. Some say I can have either.<P>The tempered glass seems to be quite a bit more expensive. I have the impression that for tempered glass, the shop cuts untempered glass to shape then sends it out for tempering. That apparently adds to the fabrication time and cost.<P>In any event, which should I choose? What are the merits of each? These are for the roll up windows on the side of a sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 No - you all have it totally wrong. The problem is NOT with the mirror - it is the WINDSHIELD. It quite simply should not have ever been attached to the mirror - thats why the very earliest of cars NEVER had windshields!!! Please try to think like a lawyer!<BR>Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted August 25, 2001 Author Share Posted August 25, 2001 Howard, thanks for the history lesson. Naturally, I did have new safety glass made for my windshield when i restored the car. If you see my car at the next tour (really looking forward to brass touring) or at a show you will recognize me as the one with the bandeleros across my chest and the shot gun! Just kidding!! I think...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 Tod ~ Either laminated or tempered glass is legal for side windows of cars. Only laminated is legal for windshields. That has to do with visibility when broken. Back glasses may be either, but if they are curved you will have to get a replacement tempered part.<P>One of the reasons the manufacturers went to tempered sidelites is that they eliminated the bottom metal channels holding the glass and began to drill the glass and bolt the lift mechanisms directly to the glass. Also that was the beginning of curved sidelites and it is more economical to bend a solid piece of glass than bend 2 thin pieces and then laminate them. Remember you cannot fit 2 identical radii inside of each other, so each 1/2 must be different, and you cannot bend glass after it is laminated as the heat will melt the binder. <P>When you want to bolt glass to metal, you can do this with tempered but not laminated for much the same reasons as Steve's windshield cracked. Stress!<P>In all of my cars I always used laminated glass. Price was never the object because you can imaging what it cost me. Nada. I preferred laminated because it was easy to work, the correct product for cars of that era and not subject to stress breakage. Well maybe at car shows. Besides, if it does break you are not left with an open hole.<P>You are correct in your assumption that the shop cuts the glass and sends it out to be tempered. They cut the laminated in house from stock. Also it is a little known and even less observed fact that to temper glass for automotive use, the manufacturer MUST have a DOT license and number. This must appear on the finished product. Most small shops just ignore this legal nicety and send the glass to a temperer and do not tell them it is for automotive use. I honestly do not feel there is any difference between DOT and non DOT tempered glass, but the DOT stuff probably undergoes more rigerous testing to meet the standard.<P>So in my humble opinion I think you should go with laminated. Is this for your Plymouth? If it is, forget the tempered.<P>Hope this helps. ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted August 26, 2001 Share Posted August 26, 2001 hvs,<P>Thanks Howard! Laminated glass it will be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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