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Supercharged with 4t65e


sahein

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I have a 1995 supercharged engine that i am going to install into an 88 Reatta. I would like to upgrade the transmission while I am at it. Also I would like to retain the current computer diagnostics and other functionality. I am leaning toward trying to integrate the 4t65e transmission, but if too difficult, may opt for a beefed up 440t4.<P>Does anybody have any suggestions on how to make this work? Here are my thoughts on the subject. Please tell me if you spot flaws in the following.<P>I chose the series 1 engine because I thought that it would be simpler than going to the series 2 because of the similarities between the original and the series 1 engines. 165hp to 225hp is a significant boost.<BR> <BR>My Idea is to basically leave the computer unmodified for the engine operation. This would require that the old injectors be used as well as the old EGR valve. I am hoping that that will keep me from having to experiment with fuel curves and calibration since the fuel control components are all matched. The supercharger will merely make the engine appear to be a larger displacement than it is. Displacement shouldn't make an impact on the fuel curves except possibly at the higher RPMs if the air flow excedes the MAF sensor linearity or limits or goes beyond the computer look-up tables or the required injectors on time excedes 100%. <P>I believe that the computer is oblivious to transmission activity except for the gear selection inputs. The computer is fed the information by switch closings for each gear. If more than one gear is selected or if no gear is selected, this will normally be perceived by the computer as an error. The computer senses the switch closure as a low.<BR>The 440t4 shift controls are internal hydro-mechanical. No external control is required except for the shift lever detent and the Torque Converter Clutch electrical input.<P>I am assuming that the 4t65e Torque Converter Clutch control from the computer is the same in both transmissions. The difference is that the 4t65e shifting is not internally hydro-mechanically controlled. It is controlled by binary computer outputs. A simple two digit binary signal can control which gear the transmission is in. This signal can also be used simulate the required computer gear selection inputs.<BR>Making the gear selections automatically occur at the propper time seems to be an enormous task. Not so difficult would be to make the gear selection manual. In essence it would be a manually shifted automatic.

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Guest Greg Ross

Major omission in your preference to stay with the original ECM is the lack of "Boost Control"<BR>If there's such a thing, a '90 or prior super charged 3.8 ECM that will cover the boost, integrating to the BCM and Diagnostics will be something else again.<BR>Padgett, if you'll wade in here and offer some guideance to our Florida Friend? wink.gif" border="0

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The boost control is vacuum operated from the manifold tap. The butterfly valve opens with high vacuum which allows the charge to bypass so no pressure will build. When you stomp on the gas pedal, the vacuum deminishes and the butterfly closes and the boost builds. I do not see that there needs to be a modification from factory.

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Have an opinion (as you might have guessed) though at this point it is purely theoretical.<P>First, if had the opportunity I would definately go with the 4T65E for strength. This does require ECM control but GM also offers a separate controller for the "E" transmissions. I didn't know that beefed 440T4/4T60 transmissions were available, do know the components in the 4T65E (HO) are much stronger and still the GTP boyz break them regularly.<P>To run properly (for one thing the stock Reatta MAF tables only go to 170 gm/sec and the bosted engines have been known to max/255) you should use the computer/PROM setup that goes with the engine from the factory. <P>If the 1995 L-67 is still a P4 (and I have seen indications that it is - ECM P/N 16183247 - then it will have three things the Reatta does not:<BR>1) Control for the bosted engine<BR>2) Control for the "E" transmission<BR>3) Control for the later ABS<P>and will be missing one thing the Reatta has - an ALDL data stream in the order than the 88 BCM expects.<P>The first two are Good Things for the swap, particularly since the boosted engines generally cut the fuel for a few millisencds during a full bore shift which can dramatically extend transmission life.<P>The ABS programming can be replaced with NOPs, and the data stream from an '88 can be substituted (not so easy if a SII engine with OBD II).<P>Now I have the pinouts from the 88 ECM (is in the service manual) but not for the 94-95 L-67 (assume this is what we are talking about). If someone could scan/copy/e-mail or post a URL that would be a big help.<P>The second thing I would need would be a dump of the L-67 PROM. With those I could scope the effort. It is the way I would do it.

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bin file here for ECM S/N 16183247<BR> <A HREF="http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi/ftp_index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi/ftp_index.html</A> <P>Found the following while searching the net:<P><BR>Reply-To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu<P>At 07:38 PM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote:<BR>>How does one tell a P-4 from a P-6?....<BR>>Are all PCMs P-6's?<P>P4 is the Syclone/jimmy/s10 etc 4.3 PCM... P6 is newer... A pic is on the<BR>incoming site of the board from a P6... 16183247 is a P6 service number and<BR>it uses a 27512 prom... I believe the P4 uses 27128 and 27256.

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The larger PROM means I would definately go with the '247, remove the ABS sequences, and rework the ALDL stream to match the P4 (assuming it is still an 8192 baud stream).<P>Is similar to ours, note the "5B" at location 8008, that is the 3800 family.<P>BTW, that .bin appears to be for a 175 hp NA '95 LeSabre, not a supercharged car.<p>[ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: padgett ]

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Guest Greg Ross

Off subject (SC) just a bit but,<BR>"for a 175 hp NA '95 LeSabre" is this of any value towards my Series I Swap-in???

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Not unless you are planning to use an "E" transmission and Delco ABS.<P>For your planned Getrag installation we need to take the transmission things out not add more.<P>Does anyone have a Buick parts book that covers '94&'95 ? If so would you please see if there is a PROM listed (grp 3.670 or table at end of grp 3) with ID 9654 (hopefully for an L67) Note: may have a four character code attached.<p>[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: padgett ]

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I am now holding a 1995 Riviera supercharged 16183247 ECM in my hands. It is about 50% physically larger than the original ECM and it has 3 connectors instead of 2. It is very doubtful that this ECM will fit into the original location. It has the MEM-CAL intact. I think that I need to acquire a service manual for the Riv for the wiring diagrams. Where should I procede from here to get the bin file to modify and re-write the chip?

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I did some more research and found that ECM 16141470 which is the 92 - 93 3.8 S/C and N/A ECM is the same physical size and the connectors mate with the existing harness. However the ECM has an additional connector which I am assuming at this time to be for the transmission. Going this route instead of with the 94 - 95 ECM, which is physically larger and the connectors are completely different, seems like a better choice at this time.

I did find reference to a slight difference in pinouts:

>Subject: 16141470 MEMCAL

> Does anyone know if there's any difference besides the EPROM between the

> supercharged and NA MEMCAL for the 16141470 ECM?

>There is a difference in the pinouts for the injectors and the CTS and IAT sensor >inputs are swapped.

> Scott

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  • 10 years later...
Guest aricrickard

it is now 2013, has anyone actually, successfully mated that 4t65e transmission to the reatta. If you have how about selling instructions on how to do it for those of us not smart enough to figure it out I ourselves

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