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Carter WCFB carb


Rooster

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Can anybody please tell me what are the stock Primary & Secondary main jet sizes for the Carter 4 barrel WCFB used on the 322 cu"

My engine is running very rich and having the carb to pieces I'm yet to find the answer. confused.gif

Thanks.

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Ken

Dang,I just had a 54 Buick WCFB apart this weekend and could have looked and checked the jet size. I am almost sure that the larger jets are for the secondaries and the smaller are for the primaries. If yours are switched it can cause a rich condition except at full throttle.

Willie

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Willie.

My carb has Grand Canyon size jets in the Primary and the smaller ones in the Secondary. shocked.gif Maybe switched ?

Some one has been into this carb before Lamar and possibly deliberately or accidentaly put them back incorrect.

I can get hold of another carb here to borrow but relunctant at this stage of messing with it -- although I will if I have to. Hopefully someone here knows these carbs inside out.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

I tried emailing this to you but my Outlook Express is so screwed up I can't tell if you got it or not

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I just got in and the info was there. Thanks.

It looks like the jet sizes are larger for primary.

Bugger !! cry.gif ( that's Aussie for --- Oh dear, shock / horror )

According to the above info the main jets ( metering rod jets ?? ) vary in size, the larger for the primary.

One would think that the secondary would have the larger but not so. Looks like I have to investigate elsewhere.

I'll contact the carbking.

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I've managed to get on loan a 1955 Carter. Having taken the top off there are certainly some differences between the two as far as jet sizes go. The Carter spec sheet info Lamar provided only gives jet sizes in drill numbers ( or thousanths of an inch ) and they are conflicting with what's stamped on top of the jets.

Would anybody have a 1954 Carter in pieces or is willing to take the top off one to confirm the main jet numbers ( the 4 in the bottom of the bowl ) and the low speed jet numbers

( the 4 in the upper section of the bowl )

Thanks.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

I'll try and pull the top off of one tomorrow. Never been there before. Is there anything I need to be careful of not furkin up. Will pictures tell you what you need to know as I doubt I will know what I am lookin at when I look at it. confused.gif

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Thanks for your offer.

Firstly disconnect the choke rod circlip at the bottom of the rod and pull out rod.

Then disconnect pump rod circlip at the top and pull off rod.

There is a cover on top that has stamped CARbereTER. Take out the two slotted screws and take off cover.

Then unscrew 9 slot screws around the outside rim of the top cover. There will be 7 slot screws on the inside of this cover ( this includes 1 under the CARbereTER cover ) that need to be unscrewed.

Then carefully prise off the cover and place down gently out of the way with the floats upward.

If you look at the main body there will be 4 brass jets on the top , 2 for the front Primary and 2 for the Secondary. You will need your glasses to read the numbers stamped on top.

Down in the bowl you will see 2 main jets in the front and 2 at the rear. You should be able to read those insitu , if not take a screwdriver and undo them. You can then read the numbers. Good Luck. smile.gif

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A couple of observations:

(1) With Carter 4-barrel carbs, even though the secondary venturi is often larger than the primary venturi, the primary jets are ALMOST ALWAYS larger. This is due to the presence of the metering rod. The EFECTIVE metering area at any time is the area of the jet less the dynamic area of the rod. The exceptions seem to be a couple of marine carburetors that do not have metering rods.

(2) NEVER trust the number on any jet! Many will drill jets oversize if they do not have the proper jet (nothing wrong with this if a lathe is used). Also, Carter had three different series of jets. Each later jet series superceded the previous series. Quite possible that the carburetor contains newer jets than those on the spec sheet.

The best approach is to look at the specification sheet for sizes, not part numbers, then check the size of the jets using orifice drills.

The same is true with metering rods, although a micrometer is used for measuring the size.

Jon.

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Ken

The primary jets are marked 120 160, the secondary jets are marked 120 158...these are from 1955 parts carbs. I thought that one might be from a 54 since it is taller, but just has a taller airhorn. The 54 carb that is installed and in service has " 1 1/16 " by the venturi (the venturis appear to be markedly smaller than the 55 carbs) when looking down into the carb...the other carbs have no marks.

Get your rebuiild kit and use the service manual for the rebuild. The 55 manual has a very good explanation of the function of all the parts and adjustments.

One other thing to check closely: the gasket between the base and bowl section can be installed 2 different ways...one is wrong and will block vacuum passages including those that go to the piston that works the rods. If you don't have sticking floats or leaking needle/seat that may be the problem.

Willie

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Guest imported_MrEarl

OK Rooster, this carb came off a 54 Century with stick shift. No not 54Muscle ; ) . It appears the 2 secondary jet numbers are 120/176 and the 2 primary are 120/166. All 4 of the low speed jet numbers are 247S. The secondary throttle valve numbers are 2-157 and the primary 2-92.

Hope this helps

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Interesting. confused.gif

It looks like another different set of numbers to deal with.

OK, this is what I have found. The carb on the '54 engine has Primary Jet 120/ 224 and Secondary 120 / 165

The loaner '55 carb has the same as Willie's

Pr 120 / 160 & Sec 120 / 158

I managed to fit a digital vernier caliper into the jets and confirm that the Primary jet size 120 / 160 is in fact the same as factory specs 0.935". My 224 is bigger -- 0.980

The big shock was the difference in low speed jets.

The 54 carb has 288S jets which have much MUCH bigger holes in them. The loaner 55 carb has the same as your's Lamar

ie. 247S

I can only summize that the jets in this carby "may" not be correct. The throttle valves are the same size in both the 54 & the 55 carb.

And yes Willie, the base gasket was the wrong way ( see attachment ) Your explanation on this makes sense, but I did spend quite some time looking at the installation trying to work out which holes would get blocked ?

So ---- I'm faced with the following

a) bolt on 55 loaner carb and see how she runs

B) buy another 54 carb

c) try and buy replacement jets / metering rods for 54 carb

( Jon , can your business supply these ? )

I think I'll try option a) first up.

Should be able to get to it later this week. I'll report back.

Thanks everybody.

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Ken

That's not the gasket I was talking about. It is the next one up in the stack betweent the base and the bowl or center section. You showed a carb base to manifold gasket which appears to be a late 55 or 56 gasket used with some Rochester carbs.

Try the 55 carb since it is handy, just to demonstrate that something will work. Probably best to get a working 54 carb eventually since yours seems to be modified.

Willie

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Ken, yes we can supply the parts; HOWEVER, I would concur with Willie to try to find a working 1954 carburetor, rather than return yours to stock. You may have measured the fuel jets, but what about the air jets.

Idle tubes changed in size when Carter junked the inferior 4 tube idle for the newer design 2 tube (primary only) idle. Some of the older 4-tube designs have been modified to run only on two, which is a better setup. Remember the 1952~1954 4-barrels were the first generation, and the carb companies were learning on the fly. The second generation carbs came out in 1955.

The gasket to which Willie is referring is the throttle body to bowl gasket. There is a vacuum port on the primary side of the carb which feeds the stepup piston, and a hole in the gasket to match. There is no stepup piston on the secondary side. Placing this gasket front-to-rear will result in a very rich primary side condition.

Jon.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

I was going to suggest that if you weren't that concerned with staying "correct" stock to possibly go with a 56 set up. Then I looked closer at the picture of your carb and it appears from the looks of the water "tube" going around the one side that it may be a 56 carb already.Compare yours to mine in the pics to see what I mean. Does your manifold have a matching water tube molded into it. See attached picture for what I am pretty sure is a 56 carb set up. The 2nd picture is of a 54 manifold.

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Aha, some of the mystery is starting to unfold.

Looks like you are on the scent Mr. Earl.

When I saw your 54 Century base I started to wonder , seeing also that the 55 is the same.

Is that carb pictured a Carter or Rochester ? My Carter does not have the same top section set-up and the manifold is 54 , the same as yours pictured.

So, I will get the 55 carb on ASAP and run it. If all goes well then -----------

whatever it takes to run properly :

original or not ( Holley / Quadrajet ) shocked.gif

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Guest imported_MrEarl

I am pretty sure the carb in the picture (taken some time ago) with the manifold is a rebuilt corrrect for 56 4 jet Rochester. I may be wrong but I think I also have a Carter on a 56 Century engine and that may be what your Carter is.My personall preference has always been Carter.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Rooster,

That car has sat a lot over the last 2-3 years.Have you pulled the plugs to see if any show signs of problem corresponding with the compression tests. It may just be some valves sticking or some loose carbon in between the valves and seats.Before you pull the heads why don't you try this. If there was old gas in the tank it may be causing the valves to stick (although it had gas stabilizer in it). If you haven't drained and rinsed the tank out with fresh gas do that first. When putting new gas in the tank add about the double the normal rate of upper cylinder lubricant. Next pull the rocker arm covers and while the engine is running at idle watch the valve springs (especially the ones suspect of low/high pressure to see if any are moving any less or slower than the others. If so then pay special attention to them and <span style="font-weight: bold">very liberally </span>spray PB Blaster on to all the springs and down the valves stems. Also spray some down the rods to free up any of the lifters. Before putting the covers back on also heavily spray the entire rocker assembley liberally with Marvel Mystery oil.After putting the rocker covers back on, and with the car outside the shop rev the engine up to about 1/4 throttle and slowly trickle/pour some transmission fluid down the carb. Don't let it flood out as it will be heck trying to recrank. Take all the plugs out and either replace or clean them good. Drive the car around normally for a mile or two then take it out and put the pedal down. Hopefully it just needs to be blown out good. I recently did this same scenario to a 264 and it worked.I had 3 sets of valves sticking and it loosened them all up and she runs much better. What is the normal compression for a 54 322 does anyone know. How about a 264

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Ken,

I hope Irene enjoys her first run with the club. She better be feeling well to keep up with gang smile.gif

Now...............I have to ask this question confused.gif

I have been a member of this forum for quite a few years and over that time

have read numerous post saying ....just pour some MARVEL MYSTERY OIL down it, on it or over it.

Being in Australia It is a mystery to me what marvel mystery oil is SO CAN SOMEONE EDUCATE ME PLEASE confused.gif

I know I could GOOGLE it but it's more fun finding out from you guys.

And while your at it...........same goes for PB BLASTER

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PB Blaster is the greatest invention known to man for freeing rusty nuts.

It loosens them up so you get them off. Comes in a spray can and works much better then anything else I have tried. A couple of days soaking and nuts twist with ease.

Marvel Mystery Oil is kinda a do all, I like to use it for putting in an engine to loosen it up after it has sit for a while. There are other uses for it too as you have seen. I have heard you can even pour ir in your gas tank to help clean the carb.

I dont know the particulars (google them) or better qualities of either one but they both work and are able to be found in better Auto parts stores around here.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Yes, PB Blaster is certainly my best friend in the shop. With all the rusted bolts I have to deal with I buy it by the gallon and use a 99 cent spray bottles to spray it. If you can't find it down there,I can send you some. It and some Tuff Stuff too if you still don't find it.

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Thanks Bill and Lamar. After reading your responses I decided to

GOOGLE "PB BLASTER" and this is what I found.........

<span style="font-weight: bold">Well....I'll be buttered on both sides </span> shocked.gifshocked.gif

It is available in Australia.

Can't say I've seen it around but this site seems to be the distributor for it so I'll contact them to find where to get it.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Blaster Group is an Australian owned family company that specialises in the distribution and wholesaling of pre-packed industrial lubricants and industrial cleaning products. Our range includes the world famous PB Blaster"</span></span>

http://www.blastergroup.com.au/aboutus.html

Can't seem to find anyone selling Marvel Mystery Oil here though

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SHE GOES !!! grin.gifgrin.giflaugh.gif

Marvellous what a new set of plugs will do. In all my haste I didn't get around to a new set, although I fully intended to.

Even bought a new set of plug leads to instal but the same thing, too wrapped up in other problems.

So tomorrow is the big day, for Irene to strut her stuff. cool.gif

She'll have some stiff competition. Stuart ( 50 Jetback) brings his 34 roadster out for the first time.

Sorry to steal your thunder Brian, but I'm excited.

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Your not stealing my thunder Ken, you started this post smile.gif

Glad to hear Irene is feeling better but I have to say it...........

You shoulda changed the plugs ages ago don't ya know wink.gif

The first thing I do with a car when I get is to change plugs points and very often leads if it is not running as smooth as it should.

Anyway.......

<span style="font-weight: bold"> We expect to see photos of Irene tomorrow night strutting her stuff with Stuart's 34 Roadster.</span>

No excuses!!

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Guest imported_MrEarl

"leads" are we talkin wires here. Or since y'all spell tires like "tyres" would that be "wyres". Just tryin to get use to the downunder language for when I visit my Irene after i win the lotto. grin.gif

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Most likely. I think 53 had a couple of different Carter carbs of which the 2082S was one. The 54's only had the 2082S as far as I know. If you're looking for another "correct" Carter carb look for a 2082S. hth

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Marvel Mystery Oil is something "from the past" that has renewed marketability of late. It is a special lube that goes many places. It works in motor oil and gasoline/diesel too. In the case of our stateside "alcoholed/ethanoled" fuels, it has been recommended to put a does of MMO in each tank of fuel to decrease rusting and such--recommended dosage is on the back of the bottle. It used to be a "snake oil" additive of sorts, but worked . . . and still does.

The ATF trick that used to be done around here, was to take a Coke bottle (emptied) and fill it about 1/2 full of ATF and the rest with water. Revving the motor above fast idle, the mixture was dribbled into the carb throttle bores. Made some knocking sounds and put white smoke out the tail pipe(s). Had to keep the engine running through the procedure, which was a shadetree "de-carbonization" operation. Only ONE bottle needed to be done . . . never really did see anybody do more than one, though. Then some driving around and a few blasts of WOT to clean things out. Don't know that it worked that well, but it was considered to work . . . in a time before magic additives that work "instantly".

PB Blaster might be on the shelves, but the packaging doesn't "jump out at you" as some others do. LOTS of writing on the label tends to hide the product name, unlike WD-40.

Best of luck on your club outing!

NTX5467

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