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Packard Hawk 1958 how many survived?


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IIRC there is a '56 Studebaker Golden Hawk that did come with a Packard V8 and apparently the heavier engine caused the car to handle poorly.

Normally on post-WWII cars you can figure roughly 10% survival rate, although the high scrap prices of the last few years have probably put a dent into that (the stuff I see locally going in never to return, is just insane). Lower production, but more expensive and more special cars tend to have a higher survival rate - 50% on the Packard Hawks would not surprise me a bit, if you can take into account every single one that is truly out there from salvage yard hulks, to forgotten barn/garage stored cars, to the restored cars you can find in Hemmings and at shows.

57-58 Packards are just a Stude styling excercise from a company so broke that it used it's 1953 bodies right until the end of production in 1966, changing them a little bit at a time (the Lark is just the 53-58 sedan/hardtop shell with a new nose and tail).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Having owned a few dozen Packards over the years (including a 57 Clipper sedan and a 58 Packard Hawk) my observation is that the only thing the Packabakers share with the previous Packards are the Clipper instruments, taillights, badges and the name (via the merger).

Don't get me wrong, I really like the cars and I wish I had the Hawk back. However, I consider them much like the Canadian FoMoCo products of the 1960's. Everyone knew they were a Ford rebadged as a Mercury/Meteor/Montcalm.

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i picked some parts off of a Packard hawk back in December a few miles from where "restorer32" lives!!

sadly the car had deteriorated to the point that the hood letters were about all that I could save.. i have all but one if someone by chance might need them

If that car was in that yard near Harrisburg that was recently cleaned out I parted a '39 LaSalle Convertible from there. Quite a few interesting remains but not much of value. Wish I had taken the '40 Ford Pickup that was there and still solid for the $100 asking price.

I wish you had got the 40 pickup as well!!!

As a matter of fact it was from the yard north of York and close to Harrisburg, my friend had been burning up his vacation time at the end of last year and made several trips there, I accompanied on one of his visits and can honestly say that I really didnt think much of what was left when I got there.

hausdok.. the car you pictured was not the car that I pulled parts from.

Don't suppose it was this car was it? I've been trying to figure out where that wreck is for weeks.

Packard Hawk | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Mike O'Handley

Kenmore, Washington

hausdok@msn.com

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  • 4 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Mal,

It looks like that's the one that sold for 4945 BP ($7867.69 USD) at Bonhams on March 3rd.

If this is the same car (It sure looks like that car.), I'd written to them and asked about the chassis number. They wrote back that there wasn't any. I wrote back to describe exactly where they could find the data plate, cowl tag and stamped chassis number and they wrote back two days before the auction that they'd been unable to find any of those.

The folks writing back were Bonham's classic car specialists; so I had to assume they were astute enough to be able to have found the stamped chassis number if one had been there; instead, nadda.

That didn't make sense to me. Anybody that would have purchased one of these and placed it in a private collection would have known how rare these are and how important provenance is - why would anyone ever remove all three means of identifying the chassis and body - especially a data plate that was spot-welded on - and then swap out the motor when it would be the last thing with a number unique to the P.H. that could be used to prove it was a P.H.? I wrote back and asked that question.

Apparently they wondered too, because before the auction they posted a notice on their website stating that they'd been unable to find body/chassis numbers to prove that it was in fact a P.H. and not simply a Studebaker Hawk with bolted-on P.H. parts being passed off as a P.H. It sold anyway for the price above sans provenance or identifying marks.

Nice little mystery; the kind that's going to niggle at me forever 'cuz I guess I'll never really know.

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See there's presently one for sale in the UK.

eBay listing - 1957 PACKARD V8 HAWK, GENUINE COLLECTOR S CAR. | eBay

The seller forgot to note the missing blower, late model Stude engine (2 bolt valve covers and full flow oil filter pegs it at 1963-64)

On edit: I see it does have the 4 bolt valve covers, just the wrong color and wrong decals. The engine number on the machined boss next to the oil filler would tell the whole story, should be LSxxxx as I recall.

Edited by Packard8 (see edit history)
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The seller forgot to note the missing blower, late model Stude engine (2 bolt valve covers and full flow oil filter pegs it at 1963-64)

On edit: I see it does have the 4 bolt valve covers, just the wrong color and wrong decals. The engine number on the machined boss next to the oil filler would tell the whole story, should be LSxxxx as I recall.

Yes, true, but it's not. The Bonhams ad had the serial number and it was a later year Studebaker number not a PH number.

The Bonhams ad for the car is here but it's somewhat revised and some information is no longer there now that the car has been sold.

Sold or Removed: Packard Hawk Supercharged Coupe (Car: advert number 162000) | Classic Cars For Sale

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  • 2 weeks later...

This question is off topic, but, I noticed some folks on here seem to have considerable knowledge about Packard Hawks. (I also have not figured out how to start a new topic)

I am in the middle of a restoration of a Packard Hawk.

I am going to paint the motor. Does anybody know any

good resourse I can use to make sure it looks correct when I am done? Currently the block is light blue, the valve covers are black with what appear to be worn "sweepstakes" stickers, other brackets and parts are gold.

Thanks for any help.

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Hi,

The block, heads, pan, valley cover and intake manifold are basically aluminum paint, the valve covers and air cleaner are semi-gloss black, the headers are left in raw iron and just about everything else bolted to the motor, with the exception of the body of the supercharger and the carb bonnet is painted semi-gloss black.

You can find lots of various discussions about restorations of P.H.s over on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forums where P.H. owners are welcomed with open arms.

Thy this search string: Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

Mike O'Handley

Kenmore, Washington

hausdok@msn.com

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- why would anyone ever remove all three means of identifying the chassis and body - especially a data plate that was spot-welded on - and then swap out the motor when it would be the last thing with a number unique to the P.H. that could be used to prove it was a P.H.?

...they'd been unable to find body/chassis numbers to prove that it was in fact a P.H. and not simply a Studebaker Hawk with bolted-on P.H. parts being passed off as a P.H.

Nice little mystery

(emphasis added)

There would have been no mystery if it was a pre-1957 Packard. If you don't believe me, believe yourself: There is no way to determine if a Studebaker is being "passed off" as a '57-'58 Packardbaker if it's stripped of its "bolted-on" Packard parts. Bolted on parts do not make a Packard out of a Studebaker.

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Ah, the troll is back!

Quote: There is no way to determine if a Studebaker is being "passed off" as a '57-'58 Packardbaker if it's stripped of its "bolted-on" Packard parts

Well, as much as I know you would like to revise history to your liking, I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken. The stamped chassis number will be a 58LS _ _ _ _ . The L identifies it as a Packard and the S as a supercharged model. The cowl tag will identify it as a K body and the 9 is the trim designation that was only used in the Packards. The Engine serial number will also be unique to the Packard and will identify the engine as belonging to a PH and not a GH.

It's absolutely true that, "Bolted on parts do not make a Packard out of a Studebaker;" which is the reason I questions Bonham's assertions when they couldn't find any of the unique identifying numbers on the vehicle they sold.

However, is you're still trying to make the point that no vehicles built by SPC in 57 and 58 were Packards, you are further mistaken. Ownership of the name and what goes on the data plate and the vehicle registration determine what the vehicle is, not bitterness over where it wasn't produced.

Whether you want to accept it or not. Packard bought Studebaker, shut down the Detroit plant, moved their operations to South Bend and made the conscious decision to continue producing Packards on the Studebaker assembly line using shared parts. SPC owned the name and it was the Packard honcho that made that decision. It was their right to do so and, though it's been obvious from your posts that you wanted it to be otherwise, I'm afraid you had no say in the outcome, did you? They called them Packards, they put Packard on the nameplate, they designated special codes to identify them as such, and they sold them as Packards; whereupon they were registered as Packards; therefore they are Packards, revisionist snobbery nothwithstanding.

Automotive history is replete with manufacturers turning out different brand names on the same platform. I'm a retired cop; we never pulled over Cadillac Devilles and called in "'86 Fisher H platform Bonneville masquerading as a Cadillac DeVille." Those cars produced in 1957 and 1958 in South Bend are what they were branded and registered as; and no amount of whining by those bitter over how Packard ended can change the fact that if they were sold and registered as a Packard they are Packards. I know that pains you greatly, Mr. Troll, but I guess you're just going to have to continue to live with the ignominious shame of it.

Mike O'Handley

Kenmore, Washington

hausdok@msn.com

Edited by hausdok (see edit history)
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Now, I enjoyed that post.

Of course you did.

Now, if the Hausdok would set aside his name-calling for a minute, and realize how overwrought his objections are, and how incendiary his posts have been, apparently to try to "win an argument" where there really is none, he would come to realize that, had a Packard manufactured before 1957 been stripped of everything but its body shell, it could be identified easily as a Packard. And if he would get over his apparent allegiance to a single model of Packard, and stop accusing others of having a slavish allegiance to only the Packard badge, he could, as suggested earlier, go back and look over some PRE 1957 Packard History, especially of the transition years, and he would have a much better perspective of where the '57 and '58 Packards fit in the history of Packard (or should I say mis-fit).

I'm not here to slam the Packardbakers any more than anyone else on this forum. I find them interesting and cleverly done cars, yet I do not mistake them for anything other than what they are: a Studebaker with bolted-on Packard parts (in his own words).

Stating the obvious-- that police would call any vehicle by its official manufacturer's name-- does nothing to bolster the argument that these cars are retrofit Studebakers. Not that there's anything WRONG with that status, but that under their skin and badges they are undeniably the same Studebakers that came off the line as Studebakers, and it is legitimate to single them out as such and realize that they are a continuation of a line of cars that The Packard Motor Car Company previously had NOTHING to do with.

This is not the same as the kind of "badge engineering" done in later years by the "big 3" (and arguably earlier years) as they were the result of intentional marketing decisions, and arguably were produced as quite distinct cars, up until the point when a few "platforms" and engines were used across all lines, which I believe is when the identities of ALL the manufacturers of American cars were polluted, never to return, except in the case of some specialty models.

One of the last truly unique GM cars, for instance, was the '63-'65 Riviera. They are desirable today because of their uniqueness, not because they are interesting curiosities, which I believe is the main attraction of such cars as the Packardbakers.

But that's just my opinion. Mr. Hausdok's opinion doesn't pain me at all, even if it is based on a skewed viewpoint and lack of understanding.

Edited by 55PackardGuy (see edit history)
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Just more of the same patronizing gibberish.

See post #60.

Mike O'Handley

Kenmore, Washington

hausdok@msn.com

Well ol' doc, there may just be a little question of who is patronizing whom, or just generally being a dick here (See several earlier posts):

"Gibberish... Mr. Troll... ignominious shame... whining by those bitter over how Packard ended... From my point of view, the only one who's made any condescending remarks here has been, well,...you. Sorry... Your I know better than you, so shut the hell up attitude...Hope you and your pedestal have a nice day... Like I said - logical disconnect..."

Well, I guess all I can say is, same to you, and the master of the logical disconnect here is... well, if the shoe fits...

When you find that magical '57 or '58 Studebaker, that when stripped of its id plates and "bolt-on parts" is identifiable as a "Packard", remember to let everyone know.

Edited by 55PackardGuy (see edit history)
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Hey hausdoc,

Thanks for the tips on the colors for the Packard Hawk engine! The link worked and I will have an original appearing engine and compartment when my project is done.

Thanks again for the help. Hopefully, before the summer is over one more Packard Hawk will be brought back to life.

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  • 10 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Now that its been estimated that 250 or so are left, I would really like to know how many are in showroom condition. I have only seen and know of roughly a dozen. This would explain why at Mecum auction in Fla in January one sold for $90000.00 Mine is nearly finished, but for that kind of cash it makes me think twice about keeping it.

post-90050-143141779223_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

The Packard Hawk website was taken down by Mike Williams because of hackers (packardhackers?).

If you want a roster of existing cars or add yours , contact me to get his contact info.

I have two Packard Hawks for sale.

Some parts are missing from each cars but between the two you will have a good restorable car with enough left

to find the needed parts and complete the second car.

I also have hoarded a large number of N.O.S. parts for these cars and the buyer of the cars gets first dibbs.

Contact me at studebaker@mac.com

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The Packard Hawk website was taken down by Mike Williams because of hackers (packardhackers?).

If you want a roster of existing cars or add yours , contact me to get his contact info.

I have two Packard Hawks for sale.

Some parts are missing from each cars but between the two you will have a good restorable car with enough left

to find the needed parts and complete the second car.

I also have hoarded a large number of N.O.S. parts for these cars and the buyer of the cars gets first dibbs.

Contact me at studebaker@mac.com

Bob I've talk to you before, and wanted to stop in and see youthe last time I went to Wisconsin - but sadly you were out of town. I'm J.D. just out of Toledo. Mine is now completly rebuilt and wife would kill me if I bought another. Next time I head to Wis I will call you and hopefully be able to see your place. Take care!

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  • 1 year later...
Out of all of the 58 Packards that I own, this is the only model that I do not have. I hope to one day. It seems the longer I wait the more expensive they get. I will continue to keep my eyes out for a deal.

I have had one that has been in the family for a number of years and am going to have to part with. I am moving and will have nowhere to put it. To my knowledge it is all original. The VIN is 58LS1224. Let me know if you are interested. I hate to put it on Ebay just going to the highest bidder.

Curtis

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I have had one that has been in the family for a number of years and am going to have to part with. I am moving and will have nowhere to put it. To my knowledge it is all original. The VIN is 58LS1224. Let me know if you are interested. I hate to put it on Ebay just going to the highest bidder.

Curtis

Curtis,

Please check your PMs.

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