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Best Place to Communicate with SINCERE Antique Car Owners? (I need internal parts for a 1914-1919 Maxwell Model 25 differential.)


hddennis

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I'm writing this in desparation in the hopes that someone knows what I should do next? I need internal parts for a 1914-1919 Maxwell Model 25 differential. I have a mismatched ring & pinion but would prefer to buy everything, gears and bearings out of one good rearend. I've advertised here and on the internet and sent out 31 postcards to other Maxwell owners. I got 4 responses to the postcards, all just being polite and telling me they couldn't help. I made a Hemmings contact that sold me more junk than I already had! Other contacts have produced people who start out like gangbusters as great penpals and then just disappear when it comes time to actually produce the parts complaining that their just too busy to take the parts off,quote me a price and ship the parts.The odd part is they all contacted me and offered to help in the beginning! Any ideas what or where I should try next??

Thanks, Howard Dennis

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Straight cut bevel gears are not or should not be expensive for someone to make for you, Howard. Material is likely to be better, machines likely to be quicker at greater accuracy and finish, and heat treatment infallible. You need someone who can measure up what you need for blanks, including angles, including number of teeth that is correct. Most gear makers can work this out for you. There are a number of gear makers here in Melbourne, so there must be some in your area. It may also be worth checking Belarus Gear in the old USSR, who I am told do beautiful work for a very economical price. They would have to know exactly what you need, of course. As to bearings, they are the life of the unit; and I would never put used ones back unless it was to get me home. I know that a lot of old cars do little mileage, but it is generally better economy in the long run to rebuild the best way possible. And I will never forget what the wretched Bock taper roller bearings were like in the rear end of my Roamer Duesenberg, which had 14,000 miles on the speedo.

Ivan Saxton

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Howard, this information may or may not be of help. Have you tried taking your mismatched ring and pinion to a diff repair establishment so they can be lapped together to get an even contact surface? I did this with the ring and pinion out of my 1917 Studebaker(although they were originally a matched set) and the result was quite good. If this is an option you might have to make a mandrel to hold the pinion as it is like mine with no shaft to place in the lapping machine. With respect to bearings they can be difficult to locate and quite expensive but if you can get them this would no doubt be the best option. However, if you cannot get replacements and yours are not too bad I would certainly use them again to get the vehicle mobile. I did replace all the bearings in my differential and gearbox (transaxle) because they had been exposed to the weather for several years. It was this exposure rather than wear that made their replacement necessary.

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Dean, Have you given any thought to just replacing the rear with a whole unit from another make from the same era? Don't know what problems U joint and wheel attachment would be using a Dodge or similar rear would be, but it may be a way out. Once this conversion is made a Maxwell unit will turn up within an hours drive of your place.

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Merv, Thanks. Now there is an option I did not know I had. Can you recommend anyone? Believe me if I were able, I'd replace every bearing gladly but the only ones available are the outer wheel bearings which I grabbed immediately.

Howard

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Bob, I've given this idea much thought and if it comes to that a Model T rearend is VERY close. At one point I almost started to use the T center with Maxwell tubes, brakes, wheels and axles, they are that close. Maybe by publicly threatening it, that one down the road will show up! I may need to pick your brain about T parts if I go that route.

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It looks as though the bearings are mostly Hyatt type rollers like T Ford used, and there must be a supply. It may be worth asking Snyders who you can talk to. There is also the practicality of rebuilding the bearings by fitting new rollers. This way you can have slightly oversize rollers if you need that. I am too far away to help much, but if it comes to the point of necessity I am happy to. Material to use is a through hardening Bohler steel with 2% Carbon and 2% Chromium content. I have a centreless grinder wired up now, and that can finish grind heat treated rollers quicker than it takes to think about it.

A few years ago I was quoted 300 dollars to cut and finish a 2.9 to one straight bevel gear pair for my 1911 Lancia, from my blanks. It wont be unaffordable now. Sure I know a bit about Duesenberg. Ray wolf talked me into buying a 1922 A model from Mexico in the early 1980's; and I have enough from there together with the remains of a one horsepower job from Montana to build a 1923; though I shall have to make a radiator shell, and get a crownwheel and pinion made for it. The other way you can sometimes find a crownwheel and pinion is at an agricultural tractor wreckers'. You will find they are spiral bevel non-hypoid, and you may find size and ratio you can use.

Regards, Ivan.

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Is this assy made by Weston Mott? My 1911 Hudson 33 takes a model with a straight pinion and spur gear. I had a nice pair of 1912 housings and trusted a guy in Canada who promised to supply me with 1911 housings and then I wound up getting stuck with a smaller 1910 Hudson set and 10" brakes. So much for being helpful . . but I digress. The 1912 Hudson used an axle similar to yours (offset pinion), with 12" brakes. I think Buick of the era may have had 10" brakes.

Berless Bearing Company (BBC) Livingston, NJ (201) 992-4242 did furnish similar roller bearings

I have looked at a rear axle assy from a torque tube Chevrolet 1949-54 era thinking that I could gain newer bearings, gears and hydraulic brakes, then install the lower radius rod to make it look more authentic.

Cheers

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Ivan, your right about them being Hyatt Roller Bearings. One of the big suppliers over here said the carrier bearings were no longer available but I will check with the sources mentioned here today.You have my curiousity up about the gear prices you mentioned. Everyone over here is quoting prices from $1200.00 to $1800.00 a set if we buy 20 sets! What do you think the cost of blanks would be?

Howard

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Thanks Bhigdog, I have always keep that thought in the back of my mind. I have parts in three locations and need to round everything up and take some serious measurements. I was hoping to at least locate good gears before tackling the bearing problem. I see other cars using these Hyatts and since they are still available in their sizes I thought your idea was always an option especially since Hyatt used both an inner and outer removable race.

Howard

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Howard, here is one more option for you, Lab Threads & Gear Works here in CT specializes in these sort of parts for brass era cars. I do not know this guy, we would like to check his place out as a club function, but here is the number and website:

Jerry Chase 203-949-9097

www.labthreads.com

Good luck, this has been an interesting thread so far.

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Thank You Steve, I'll add this one to my list. Where are you in Connecticut? From 1979-85 I worked just over the border in Pawling, N.Y. at Heritage Automotive Restorations. Frank used to like to have antique car tours stop at the shop. Might want to check it out as both the shop and the area are an interesting destination. If you call tell Frank Dean sent you.

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Dean, If you get a catalog from Lang's Old Car Parts look at the Model T rear axle bearing upgrades # 2508ORB this is a sleeve with modern ball bearings to replace the rollers. Justmatch the OD & ID of your Maxwell and they should work, or the design can be copied.

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It is hard for me to answer that right now, Howard, because I haven't bought steel for that purpoe for a long while. (I recall what I got for the 17/49 crown wheel and pinion for the 1911 Lancia was Bohler ECN150.) I rough turned the blanks; but other things supervened, such as a son, now 26, becoming recognisable as autistic, another family member being unable to deal with that constructively and rationally, and others having to go through university. I never tally the cost of my time working on things for my own cars. Accounting figures are one of my Asperger's gaps, and I hate them at all times and in all forms. The way it would most likely be done now is slice the plug out of the middle with a plasma cutter, and someone with a suitable size CNC machine would machine it in not much more time than it takes to discuss it. CNC is the easiest way to get the angle dead right as it should be. Just bear in mind when I write anything that I am not trained as an engineer. I am qualified as an agricultural scientist. I always bow to superior authority, and have always had a good network of people who are specialists. I do and have to do almost everything myself, and the only things I need to seek outside are crank grinding, cam grinding, and gear cutting.

I am sure you will find someone who will make you gears affordably that are better and quieter than Maxwell did originally. I think Paul Freehill had Stutz straight bevel gears made in Ft Wayne; and it may be worth asking Fred Hoch who he would go to for this work.

Regards, Ivan

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I didn't mean to pin you down to a number Ivan, it's just as a disabled veteran on disability I can't afford a cost no object restoration. Truth be told I probably shouldn't even be doing this at all but I still have a "Lust For Rust" and really do enjoy bringing antique cars back from the brink of extinction for future generations to enjoy. And it's a great way to pass the time.

Howard

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Guest cardinal905

Dont forget buddy, when I get my other 2 pains in the asses roadworty I plan on helping you with my spare---assuming it is good (I hope to have at least one good set) ML

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Thanks Mike, I really appreciate that. Just hoping I could ferret out some of the spares I'm sure are still out there and from this thread I've learned more options and had some of my faith restored in this great hobby. I've pretty much cured all the major problems on this car except getting it back on 4 wheels so I thought I'd go public in the hopes of solving this last hurdle. How's your fuel mixture problem coming?

Howard

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Howard;

A catalog I strongly recommend is MSC Industrial Supply Co. 800 645 7270 mscdirect.com Fully three inches thick catalog .. 24 hour delivery usually and they have about anything I have ever needed to to get and keep my 1914 Chalmers going. I dispaired while rebuilding the cork clutch when I found a bronze ball bearing assembly the clutch assembly rides back on was shot. Looked in the book and they had one, but with two rows of balls. Better yet. About anything a machine shop can use is in there including all sorts of metal, probably even gear metal . I have bought bronze for machining huge bushings, drill rod, and so on. Cast iron for valve guides and so on. That catalog is a great confidence builder Jim 43

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Holy Cow!!, outside my door this morning was what I thought was a crate of oranges someone had sent me. Nope, turns out the catalog for MSC Industrial Supply Co. I had ordered online had arrived. Hardcover, 3 3/4" thick and about 10 lbs. and FREE! . I will surely have some enjoyable reading ahead. And you were right, what a confidence builder, to know what is available and all in one place. Thanks for the tip, jim43.

Howard

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Well the "Pen Pal's" parts arrived today and once again I've been shipped a bunch of worn out junk barely suitable for patterns! Anybody know where I can get the internal parts for a 1914-19 Maxwell Model 25 rear axle? I'm back to square one.

Howard Dennis

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  • 15 years later...
On 6/15/2008 at 2:44 AM, dep5 said:

Is this assy made by Weston Mott? My 1911 Hudson 33 takes a model with a straight pinion and spur gear. I had a nice pair of 1912 housings and trusted a guy in Canada who promised to supply me with 1911 housings and then I wound up getting stuck with a smaller 1910 Hudson set and 10" brakes. So much for being helpful . . but I digress. The 1912 Hudson used an axle similar to yours (offset pinion), with 12" brakes. I think Buick of the era may have had 10" brakes.

Berless Bearing Company (BBC) Livingston, NJ (201) 992-4242 did furnish similar roller bearings

I have looked at a rear axle assy from a torque tube Chevrolet 1949-54 era thinking that I could gain newer bearings, gears and hydraulic brakes, then install the lower radius rod to make it look more authentic.

Cheers

Hi there, I am currently restoring a 1912 Hudson 33 Roadster and am searching for any engine parts for a Continental AB600 - four cylinder. Do you have or know of anyone with any parts available? Thanks in advance. Mathew  

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  • Like 2
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