1929 Hupmobile project

[Guest Dean_H.]

I checked with Egge, they have parts for most of the old cars, but not too much for Hupmobiles. Vintage Auto Parts, Inc. is the place where I finally found pistons. I think it was around three hundred bucks for the NOS set with rings.

[Guest B1rdman]

seems you got the last pistons.

only bright side to my problem is i think i have a 3 1/8 standard bore.

so i can use used pistons, as long as the wrist pins fit tight.

my rings are good. i just have play in the wrist pin holes.

so if any one bored a engine, maybe they would still have the old stock bore pistons

thanks

gene

turkey@cherokeetel.com

[Guest Dean_H.]

I noticed the car pulls to the left when braking. I had taken three of the brake drums off earlier to check the brakes. They all looked good, so I decided to skip the fourth. Now with the pulling to the side that didn't get checked, I decided to pull that last drum and have a look.

Getting my makeshift puller in place.

Sure enough, found a broken spring. Don't skip anything! I'll write that down for next time.

My brake shoes are a little thin, not to the rivets, but getting close. I was going to run them a little longer but since the car is looking so good, might as well get new linings for it. After making some calls I found the price for material or just having it done is pretty close. So I packaged up the shoes and will send them off tomorrow. Sure hate mailing off parts like this... I better get these back.

The forlorn old car awaits

[TexRiv_63]

Dean,

Who do you have doing your shoes? I will have need of the same service for my Pierce and will be interested in the results you get.

[keiser31]

Dean.....your car cannot possibly feel forlorn with all of the attention to beautiful detail you have given it. It was simply letting you know that you missed one small thing. It wants to perform perfectly for you, so it told you.

[Guest Dean_H.]

TxRiv, I'll post the quality of work and name of shop, after I get my parts back. To do all four wheels is $200 + shipping. Hopefully they'll be done in a week or two.

Perhaps my language was too harsh. The old Hupp looked kind of sad with no wheels and I slammed it with the forlorn word. I'll be more careful in the future.

I had an automotive carpet place send me samples. But I noticed they were 100% nylon. Out of curiosity, I lit a match and discovered nylon rugs are very flammable. That didn't seem too good to me so I ordered an Oriental throw rug. This light brown runner cost me $80 plus shipping. It's enough to do both front and back of the car.

There were a couple tags on the back of the rug. Seems odd to point out child labor wasn't used. I only got started on cutting the piece I need for the front.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Measuring and marking the rug.

I found a rubber mat that might be nice, if I cut it to size and sew it on.

And there's the finished product. All the cutouts were in the right spots

[aussie al]

Dean

Your skills (especially the ability to have a go at anything) are absolutely amazing. I still start the day looking for your posts.

A friend helped me to get the roadster engine running for the first time in many, many years- and it sounded great. Whilst there are many challenges still ahead of me; one in particular is frusrtating the life out of me at the moment.

I thought that I must have the wrong horn button; but looking at the photo above it looks exactly the same as yours. I must be missing the piece that connects the horn button to the steering column. Could you explain or draw a diagram of the way in which the horn button operates?. I have the horn button and the wire with the metal strip on top that runs through the centre of the steering column and the insulating washer and the copper ring with the fingers. Any help would be much apreciated. Alan

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks Alan, and glad to hear you got your engine running.

Unfortunately I have a poor memory on a lot of this work. I actually remember the music I listen to more than what I'm doing. I did have the horn button apart to clean the contact areas. If I remember correctly it had screws from the bottom. There was a pot metal piece attached to the top of the largest of the the three tubes that go through the steering column. It was cracked and I machined a new one of those and welded it on. Then it's a matter of putting all the copper washers and levers on and sliding the other two smaller tubes together. It took some time to figure it all out. But it certainly can be done. Make sure the copper washers are clean because the horn current passes through to ground. Finally, the three (maybe four) screws hold it together. I think the screws threaded into the horn button assembly. Once you slide it into the column the screws can not be accessed.

Hope this helps, I don't have any other pictures other than what's posted. Chuck might be a better expert here and at explaining it.

[Hupp36]

Dean I emailed Alan a few pic and an explation of the pic of the horn button, throttle,spark and light levers. A pic is worth a thousand words. Chuck

[aussie al]

Dean,

Thanks for the prompt reply. The information you gave will be most helpful. I am obviously missing that bit which screws on to the button. Chuck is going to send me some photos of his disassembled horn button when he is finished painting a friend's Hup, and an aussie in South Australia is going to send some photos of a 27 horn button setup. This forum (and the people who read it) is absolutely great for getting much needed information.

Thanks everyone for the assistance

Alan

[Guest Dean_H.]

My lug bolts were pretty rusty. I had glass beaded and painted them earlier. Sanding in between primer coats filled in the pits and they looked smooth. But they didn't look too great on the car. The paint was chipping when I tightened the bolts. I finally couldn't take it any longer and stripped off the paint and sanded out the pits in preparation for chrome.

After the paint is removed the rust pits are obvious.

In this pic, I have a piece of wood in the mill that is dimpled. Running at high rpm on sandpaper smooths out the ends.

File work on the flat areas, almost ready to drop off at the chrome shop :-)

A couple weeks and $84 later, I have some fine looking lug bolts.

[keiser31]

Once again, Dean, you have shown us that any detail can be done right if taken the time. AWESOME work, buddy!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Dean_H.]

Finally got my brakes back yesterday. The brake relining process turned out less than ideal. I was quoted $180 on the phone plus $28 for return shipping. It cost me $29 to ship to the place, so I was into it for $237. When the shop takes delivery of the shoes, I get a call - they need another $120. These are not brake shoes, but are "brake bands". "Brake bands take more material and are more difficult to reline". They'll lose money...bla bla bla.

Figuring I don't have much choice here, I send off the extra cash. Unfortunately, I wrote down the wrong address on the envelope and that caused some delay. But yesterday the box arrives, I use a pocket knife to cut all the packing tape and discover the shoes were not lined to the quality standard that I'd expect.

In this picture you will notice the top one is chipped off on the corner

Evidently a C-clamp was used to hold the lining tight while riveting. In this pic the marks/dents are visible from the clamping.

While waiting on the brakes I took the rear end apart to check the condition. It looks good, but I'm considering changing the third member to something with a higher than 5.22 gear. I'm starting to run short of time however, and may just run it as is for a while.

[keiser31]

Dean....PLEASE tell us who did (or tried to do) your brake "band" linings so none of us make the mistake of sending our precious parts to the same outfit to be done incorrectly.

[keiser31]

Man, I cannot believe the way those came back to you. I'm upset about it and they're not even my brake shoes!!

[Guest Dean_H.]

I didn't really want to bash a business on the forum, and left their name off on purpose. I'll do it this way - business location is southern CA.

Maybe it's just me, I'm seldom satisfied when I farm work out.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Dean_H. (see edit history)

[keiser31]

No....it's NOT just you. I would have had them at least re-do the broken one.

[hddennis]

" Maybe it's just me, I'm seldom satisfied when I farm work out. "

Thanks for warning us Dean. You just made up my mind I'm ordering the material and doing it myself, couldn't turn out any worse and save a ton too!

This amazes me how a business can do such shoddy work and yet still send it out the door as if it's your fault for ordering anything out of the ordinary and have the gall to charge a premium on top for this mess!

Howard Dennis

[Guest Dean_H.]

I'm not sure what is worse, the brake job, or my attempt to bind the edges of the rear rug. Even sewing by hand, the black edging material doesn't bend well around the cutout.

After undoing the first stuff, I tried sewing the edge with cotton string. This too looked nasty.

In a desperate attempt to make this work, I cut round aluminum sheet metal plates, and placed them over my edge binding fiasco.

The footrest still looked OK, just washed it with soap and water and used it as is. On the hardware, I made new arms from stainless steel and had the end caps re-chromed. This rear part of the car isn't too critical, I'll be sitting up front behind the wood steering wheel and won't see any of it. :-)

I've been a little busy on other stuff, but did manage to get one front wheel back on. Look at those chrome lug bolts! I'll have to be extra careful while driving this beauty, would hate to go through a mud puddle and soil one of these fine looking wheels.

[Guest Z71Hobbs]

Dean...where are you? Anxious for updates!!

[keiser31]

Maybe he's working on his "new" coupe.....

[Guest Dean_H.]

I'm here, just haven't done much on the car in a while. The last thing I've been working on has been the rear axle. I wanted to change out the ring and pinion gears to a higher ratio. I planned on finding some similar gears with my prefer ratio, and machine to fit. After a little research I discovered pretty much every rear end since 1935 is hypoid, which won't work for me. Today's junkyards don't have a big selection of pre 1935 stuff. Since this might take longer than I want to wait, I reassembled the the third member. There's quite a few adjustments to deal with on these. With a little help from an old "Motors Truck and Tractor Repair" manual I finally got it back together.

And cutting gaskets, this is as far as I've gone for now. I want to have the car on the road in a few weeks, so more posts should be coming soon. :-)

[keiser31]

Dean....thanks for the update.

[Johan Boltendal]

Hello Dean,

Nice progress you are making, follow your comments every now and then, saw you had your bolts chromed, didn't read a thing about a heat treatment afterwards. Perhaps you had it done, perhaps you didn't think off it.

The chemicals brittle the metal configuration, they may snap in an instance, have them done if you haven't already.

Johan

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks for the tip Johan. I did not heat treat the bolts, never heard of chemicals making them brittle. How would you go about re-tempering them?

Also, any chemicals that are still legal here in CA are most likely edible/useless. I believe you're in South Africa, I wonder if chrome chemicals are more potent there.

[Johan Boltendal]

No I'm not in South Africa, I'm in the Netherlands, the whole procedure leads to this, believe me I've been there.

My chromed snap rings broke one after another, the first one with a huge blow, luckely the spare. I had mine professionally heat treated after that, it's a rather precise temp. controled issue, I would not undertake at home, nor am I able to. I visited a gear factory a few weeks back and they operate a complete hall (1/4 mile long) for heat treatment only, 24/7 computer controlled temperatures, 4 guys on mobile phone alert also 24/7

Phone rings at half a degree changes, so much for home treatment.

[F&J]

The last thing I've been working on has been the rear axle. I wanted to change out the ring and pinion gears to a higher ratio. I planned on finding some similar gears with my prefer ratio, and machine to fit. After a little research I discovered pretty much every rear end since 1935 is hypoid, which won't work for me. Today's junkyards don't have a big selection of pre 1935 stuff.

Just wondering why you can't just find a complete front load chuck with the close dimensions, and then try to deal with axle splines, carrier depth, etc?

When I owned my 32 Ply, I met some 32 addicts at Hershey. They figured out a way to use late 40s to mid 50s Plymouth chucks in their 32 Plys with just a bolt flange modification. These guys even knew which years/models had the best hiway gears.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Good point FJ. That'll certainly be an angle I'll explore.

With the original gears I can do 45 MPH at about 2700 RPM. With the cast iron pistons and long stroke, the old motor will probably pound out babbitt at this speed. So in reality, my cruise speed is more like 35-40 with ability of 45 MPH for short bursts.

These are dreadfully slow speeds even on the back roads. Unfortunately I have a million other things to do, so it'll have to do for now. Hopefully I can get back to it in a few months.

Sorry about that South African thing Johan, I confused you with someone else. The Netherlands is a nice location. I think I'll take a chance on the lug bolts. They're pretty good size at 9/16 and there are six per wheel. If any break I'll take action.

[keiser31]

Dean...it seems a few guys are installing Chevy S-10 5 speed transmissions in their older cars. I saw a couple set up like that on the National Dodge Brothers Meet. Maybe that would help with hiway speeds.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Yeah, if the five speed had overdrive it would help some, but my low geared rear axle would still keep the car in the slow lane. I'm going to leave it original for now. I like the sound and feel of the square cut gears, it gives the car a lot of character. Hopefully I don't get rear ended.

I got the wheels back on and test drove the car at high speed (45 MPH). The brakes work well, no pulling to one side and it actually stops pretty fast. I'm glad I didn't leave the old brake linings, they were probably glazed over.

Annnnd......finally got the windows. Most of the original windows were missing or broken. I bought the complete set and went with a green tint. The glass guy suggested clear glass to keep the car original, (in case someone wants to buy it). Sorry, I like tinted windows and the car is not for sale.

In this picture I'm getting the windshield frame on the window. The fit is excellent.

The windshield crank out gear is in perfect shape, I cleaned and lubricated it.

There it is all together, with new weather stripping.

It's almost to easy to put the windshield in, just pull back two spring loaded pins and snap into place. That made the car look quite a bit better. OK... no staring, got to finish this thing. :-)

Installing new window channels.

Getting the setting tape and bottom rail ready. This is as far as I've gone for now

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Dean —

I emphatically agree with you about the whine of straight cut gears. It was a familiar sound of my early childhood and is appropriate for all the early cars. I think to "engineer" it away would be to lose some of the authenticity of any restoration of cars of that era.

My two cents on highway speeds: Both my cars run happiest in the range of about 45 mph. They both start "breathing hard" at very much over that, but they will do 45 all day long from what I can tell. The car is "happier" at that speed, as is the driver, because emergency braking power becomes less of a concern.

Both my '28 Packard and the '29 Lincoln are running standard gearing. While it is possible to change gear ratios to get higher road speed I think it an unwise choice. In my opinion, the mechanical brakes of most of the earlier cars at least, make the cars less safe at the higher road speeds, even when their brakes are well "tuned". At their best, mechanical brakes are no match for what we have come to expect from hydraulic brake systems.

My Lincoln has mechanical drum brakes that would not appear out of place on a modern bus, for size. They stop the car almost as well as modern hydraulics, but I don't want to challenge their stopping power by going much above the 45 mph that is comfortable all around anyway. Take the back roads and enjoy a more relaxed motoring. Both you, and the Hupp, will have a better time. These cars were just not designed for the freeway and their sustained higher speeds, and not because they can't go fast enough, but because they can't stop as fast.

Pete P.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Right on Pete, even in that short video I posted, you can hear a gear sound that is not heard in today's cars. I don't want to loose that. However I'd feel a lot safer at 55-60 MPH. There recently was a fatal accident near me - car slammed into a farm tractor. I've noticed drivers will not even slow down when they approach a slow moving vehicle. They just pass, without concern of traffic, blind curve, etc. I'll be careful and stick to the country roads. :-)

Of the six windows that roll up and down, on my car, it only had three when I bought it. The windows aren't a big deal, but the missing bottom channels were a pain to find. Knowing I needed these I've been keeping an eye out for them.

Earlier this year, my wife and I were exploring some ghost towns in Nevada where I found one channel next to some old car parts in the dirt. Here is a picture of that location.

The channel was a bit long and needed to be cut off.

And this picture after glass beading and painting. I have enough channels now, one is on the car already. One had some rust through, but will work.

[Guest Dean_H.]

I've been driving the old Hupp quite a bit lately, testing the reliability and enjoying myself. Today was pretty hot (mid 90s), the car didn't overheat on a ten mile drive. It appears to handle warm days OK. So far no problems.

It was very low on fuel, I had my wife follow me into town, in case I ran out. She snapped this picture of me filling the tank.

I made the mistake of bragging how fast the Hupp is, and how it would easily 'blow the doors' off my wife's little car. In this short video she showed me otherwise and then laughed me down. :-( ....Very humiliating. Oh well, at least it still looks cool.

MVI_0097.flv video by 29Hupp - Photobucket

[keiser31]

Lookin' dapper on the road, Dean!!

[Hupp36]

Dean At the Hupp tour in Altoona Pa, one of the members had a yellow blinking light. It has 2 magnets so you can place it anywhere. He covered the magnets with duck tape so they would not scratch the paint. It measures 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 in. Batterys last some 40 Hrs. I liked it and got one for my Hupp. I got it at Tractor Supply. Its very bright and can be seen in daylight. Iwill try to post a pic, if it does not work, I will e mail it to you. Chuck

[Hupp36]

Dean Forgot to tell you ,the light is LED

[Guest Dean_H.]

* Main Entry: dap·per

* Pronunciation: \ˈda-pər\

* Function: adjective

* Etymology: Middle English dapyr, from Middle Dutch dapper quick, strong; akin to Old High German tapfar heavy, Old Church Slavic debelŭ thick

* Date: 15th century

1 a : neat and trim in appearance b : very spruce and stylish

2 : alert and lively in movement and manners

Had to look that word up (I attended public school). Thanks John, I certainly agree.

Chuck, that light is a good idea. There's a Tractor Supply store not far from me, I'll check to see if they have one. Sounds like you guys had a fun tour, PA is a scenic state.

[huptoy]

I use a red flashing LED bicycle light attached to the ends of the bumpers using the standard bicycle frame attachment. The bike shop verity have several blinking options. They really work great as dusk approaches. I also use white ones on the front. I have never been stopped by a cop and motorist are accustomed to seeing bicycles on surface streets. On 4 lane highways, they get into the left lane a good 200 feet behind me. I have not used the lights during the day but have not had a problem being seen.

[Guest Dean_H.]

I finally got all the windows in. The back window was the last one. To do it right, the upholstery needed to be installed around that area first. I was in a pretty good mood and decided to wrap some loose change in plastic and then stapled to the wood. The coins aren't rare today, but in eighty years (next restoration due date), these could be pretty valuable. :-)

The runs in the finish on that last picture were from linseed oil that I sprayed the interior wood with. In this picture I'm installing the upholstery over the 'rare coins' time capsule.

My wife needed to go to a town about 25 miles away, so I washed the car and we were off. Because of the slow speed, we went over Hecker Pass to avoid freeways. I was amazed how well this Hupp does on steep mountain roads, third gear all the way to the top.

On the other side, I stopped to check out the car and noticed the rear end felt warmer than normal, probably about 150+ degrees. Thinking I might have to much preload on the bearings I decided to loosen the pinion a bit. While I fiddled with the car my wife noticed a stray dog wandering around. Yep, you guessed it, she had to rescue the dog. Long story short, we're finally on our way home at 11pm.

There are plenty of cops out for labor day weekend and sure enough we get pulled over. The young gal told me she couldn't see any lights at all on my car. I got out and showed her, the tail light was working. She argued, from a few feet back it was hardly visible, and "the head lights weren't much better". She didn't want to let me continue home, but relented after instructing me not to drive at night any more.

I could see pretty well, but the slow speed worries me for a rear end type accident. I'll add one of those lights Chuck and Jack spoke of, for safety and to avoid future harassment.

Here's a pic of the car after washing - ready to go.