1929 Hupmobile project

[Guest Tracey Williams]

Hi Dean

Don't know if I'm too late but there is a hubcap for your car on American ebay. Hope you get this message in time.

Cheers Tracey W. From Australia

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks Tracey, I did see that hub cap. It's almost the same as mine, but for eight cylinder cars. My caps have only the H on them and this one had an '8' as well. I was tempted to bid on it anyway, but decided not to.

I finally got the body of my car painted and installed. In this picture I'm sanding it down in preparation for buffing.

Getting started with the buffer

Installing the body to the chassis

I set the body on blocks so the forklift could get out. In this pic I'm lifting the body to remove the front blocks.

And the body is on. What a great looking car!

[John Gelfer]

May I say WOW? What a beauty. You are doing a fine job, with skill and patience. I can't wait to see The Hup finished. Seeing your progress is an inspiration to all restorers of the rolling antique iron.

[Durant Mike]

Dean

Real nice paint job, I presume it is the original color? I see you did the firewall black. So many restorations today paint them body color when most car companies originally painted them black. I really am enjoying watching the car come together. As I said before don't let anybody fool you, you are a craftsman for sure.

[Guest CutNChop]

Fantastic job and a really good documentation of the work. To heck with getting a job, start your own restoration business. If you are enjoying it as much as you seem, you'll do well.

[Guest Tracey Williams]

Hi Dean

Can I suggest a landrover series one air cleaner. It's a small cylinder type that you can mount to your firewall paint it black & they really look vintage. Have fitted one to My 1928 Hudson Landau just looks so much better than the hot rod look.

Keep up the great work

Trace Williams Australia.

[Guest Dean_H.]

I appreciate the positive comments and questiions. My answers... I'm going with the original colors, which was an easy choice, Hupp had great color schemes. Yeh.. I wish I could make a living restoring these old cars - maybe higher end types. That's not a bad idea on the air cleaner, it would look better. I'll probably stay with the hot rod one since my firewall has no non-factory holes, and I'm not drilling any.

Lately I've been busy on other things and haven't done much on my project except for a few small items. This pic shows the tail light mounted and wired.

Here you can see the new cowl lacing is on and the spare tire brace is installed. I need to put some pin stripes on the black belt line. Haven't been brave enough to try yet.

Some of the wood is loose at the joints. In this picture a Simpson Tie is seen. These Simpson ties are good as gold when building a house. The building inspectors love to see them, probably be good on cars too.

[Guest aussie610]

Tracey, where in Aus are you from?

Sorry for the thread hijack..

[Guest elmo39]

Dean

to get your temp guage and tube repaired try www.bobsspeedometer.com

[Aussie_Hupp]

Hi Dean,

Its great to see your progress and you are realll getting on with the job.

I was wondering if you had any measurements of the timber bearers you replaced? It would be really helpful if you recoreded some detail before replacing them?

[Guest Mike Terry]

Dean, your project has really motivated me also. Like everyone, I am impressed with your abilities. Thanks for sharing your project with everyone.

[Blanchette]

Hello,

I just brought home a 1930 Model S from a barn find on the central coast. If you live anywhere near Santa Cruz County I would like to get together with you.

[Guest Dean_H.]

It's been a while since I posted progress on my car. I disassembled the steering box and found some problems. There is rust pitting on the worm gear and the peg has flat spots. I could put in new bearings and make it work, but I'd prefer to replace the gear and peg. I haven't had any luck finding parts on this unit, so... I've sort of stalled here.

Thanks again for the positive comments. I'm afraid that gauge restore place would be beyond my budget. As for measurements, I didn't record any. Blanchette congrats on the barn find, PM me.

Here is a picture of the steering box after I cleaned it up

Here's a close up of the offending parts

This is one of the reasons for slow car Progress. The wood base under our water tank was deteriorating. My wife and I moved the tank and poured a concrete pad. We cut up the old tires from the Hupp to make a rubber mat for the tank to sit on. New paint and plumbing made it look good.

[Blanchette]

Sorry Dean, my computer skills are as dismal as my auto abilities, I don't know what PM means. You can contact me at BerindaB@sbcglobal.net

[oldcar]

Looking at your steering box it would not seem as bad as you imagine. The rust pitting seems to all be at the bottom of the track in the "worm" and you should be able to press out the peg and rotate it through 90 degrees and press it back into the arm. which will remove most of your free play. New bearings and your problem should be solved. The peg works against the sides of the track not at the bottom.

[eric_b_1937]

You could fill the corrosion pitting with Devcon titanium epoxy putty and then machine smooth.

http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?csid=42&familyid=124&brandid=1

I used this material to repair a worn splined shaft which now has 2000 miles on it with no problems yet.

[HarryJ]

Dean...........Given your abilities the steering box should be an easy fix.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks for the tips guys. The peg is a pretty easy fix, but the worm gear is not so good. It's not obvious in the picture, but it's worn wider in some areas. When I shim the peg to fit correctly in one area, it will have play in another. I could use something like that titanium epoxy or even just build it up with weld, but it would be difficult (with my equipment) to machine it back to correct specs. The metal is also quite hard, a file won't hardly scratch it.

I have driven many miles with play in steering and would be able to handle this car with some play, but prefer it to be tight. I know Franklin, Studebaker and some other makes had Ross steering boxes. There might be aftermarket gears available. The model A Ford places have every part available for their boxes. If I don't find anything, I'll set up some sort of jig and machine this one back to new.

[oldcar]

You will have fun trying to machine the worm. It is case hardened you may be able to grind it but you will need some fairly sophisticated machinery. Not a job for an average back yard workshop. You could end up a whole lot worse off. What make is the "box" and what other cars used the same make and type?

Looking at you pics I would think that you may also have to do something with the drop arm shaft. either metal spray or hard chrome an grind to size then fit new bushes or build up to an over size then ream the existing bushes to suit.

[Guest kiwi mopar]

how about takeing the gear to a good enigneer shop.

and getting them to grinding it a little biger to take out the pits and then make a bigger peg to fit.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks for the tips guys, I like your idea Kiwi. Since I happen to be in an excellent engineer shop (my garage), I may try that. There are some reproduction steering parts available for 1940s jeeps that look close to what I need. That's the other option I'm considering.

One of the forum members stopped by yesterday, with his family. It was nice to meet another Hupp owner, good people. After they left, I spent the rest of the day tinkering with my car.

In the last couple weeks I replaced some top bows on the body, three of them had lost the curve. I also got the sun visor on and replaced the front wood under the visor. With the chicken wire tightly stapled I'm ready to put the top canvas on.

A previous owner of my car had started the restoration in the 1970s. The rear fenders had been repainted black and looked pretty good. Of course I have to repaint these parts so everything matches. But after applying primer sealer I noticed a hairline crack in the finish. Using paint remover, I discovered a thin layer of bondo covering the entire fender. After stripping off to bare metal the fender looks in nice shape, the bondo really wasn't necessary.

[keiser31]

Your top is supposed to have cotton batting between the chicken wire and vinyl top material, isn't it?

[Guest Dean_H.]

keiser31,

Yes, there were a few original pieces around the edges that I have for example. I'll get something from the yardage store to fill that need.

[huptoy]

<span style="color: #3333FF">I have a MoToR's FACTORY SHOP MANUAL Copywright 1937 that covers 1931 through 1936. I believe the Ross Steering Gear is the same on the 1928 through 1932. The following is the adjustment instructions for a 1931 or 1932. This may help when you are adjusting the reassembled unit. </span>

-------------------------------------------

<span style="font-weight: bold">STEERING GEAR, ADJUST

S, L C, 214, 218, 221</span>

Detach drag link to eliminated possible misalignment and binding of steering gear, loosen bolts housing to frame and loosen steering column bracket at instrument board and retighten both. Loosen clamp which holds steering column jacket tube. Tighten the cap screws in the cover on the engine side of the housing.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Cam End Play Adjust</span>

Loosen the screw which adjusts cross shaft end play, located on the engine side of the steering gear housing. Loosen the adjusting plug lock screw, located near the top of the steering gear housing. Turn the adjusting plug down until there is a barley perceptible drag when the steering wheel is turned by grasping it lightly between the thumb and forefinger. Tighten lock screw and nut.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Cross Shaft End Play.</span>

Turn steering wheel to mid-position. Tighten the cross shaft end play adjusting screw, located on the engine side of the steering side of the steering gear housing, until a very slight drag is felt through the mid-position when the steering wheel is turned slowly through this range. Tighten the lock nut.

Lock the jacket tube by tightening its clamp. Turn the steering wheel to see if any stiffness exists. If it does not turn freely, adjustments are too tight or steering column is out of alignment. When adjustments are ok, connect drag link

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks for the info Huptoy, that is the same box as mine. I haven't done anything with my steering box yet, been working on other items.

I noticed my other rear fender also had hairline cracks. After applying paint remover I discovered it too was full coverage bondo-ed.

In this close up pic the cracks can be seen

Using paint remover I finally got all the bondo off. Small rust lines can be seen where the cracks were.

Here are both fenders after stripping. There are a few dings but overall they are in pretty decent shape. I'll do a little hammer and dolly work on them and use a smaller amount of body filler to get the finish I desire.

[Guest Dean_H.]

I roughed out the rear fenders and got them in primer

Installing the top is uncharted territory for me, but I figured I'd give it a try. I started with putting canvas over the chicken wire.

Cotton batting went on next. The fabric store indicated this "warm and white cotton batting will not separate or bunch even after a lifetime of washing. Plus you can leave up to 10 inches between quilting lines" Don't know what any of that means, but it seemed impressive.

The person I bought the car from, gave me the vinyl material for the top and it is just wide enough. I used a staple gun and small nails to attach it. The nails were going in hard so I pre-drilled 1/16th holes. Unfortunately the tiny drill broke, and the half still in the drill motor went through a finger nail and finger tip on my left hand. Boy did that hurt!!! As it bled on both sides of the finger, I danced like I just won the lottery. My wife noticed the commotion and put some disinfectant and a bandaid on.

After I pulled myself together, I finished, hopefully it's tight enough. I still need to put the trim around the edges.

[Durant Mike]

Dean it's coming together fine, and really looks great. Your doing a great job for sure. I was told that you start with the front of the top and pull and work back is that what you did to keep the wrinkles out and the top tight? I've got to do the same on mine, so I'm very interested in how it's done.

[Guest Dean_H.]

I started from the middle and worked out. It didn't come out perfect, right side is great but the left side has a few small wrinkles. Today was sunny here, I pulled the car outside to see how direct sun would effect it (only got up to about 65 degrees F.) It appeared to get a little loose, but still looked OK. I'm afraid on a hot day it might stretch out enough to look bad. I think I'll re-do it on the next warm day we have, which will be a few months from now. I have plenty of other stuff to do til then.

Here is a picture I took about half an hour ago just before I put it back in the garage. The old car is fun to yard drive, but all I can do is go back and forth. Really need to get that steering going.

[keiser31]

Best to install the roof covering in the heat of the day to be able to stretch to it's fullest. If not, you will end up with a big bubble on the roof as you go down the road. Make certain that the leading edge in the front it sealed well to prevent air from "puffing" the roof up. You are doing an absolutely wonderful job and I wish I could see the car in person.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Yeah, it'll take a warm day to get the top right. Keiser, stop by if you're ever down this way. The car looks even better in person and when the motor starts... sweeeet!

I decided to polish out the aluminum steering hub. It was a little tarnished, but in good shape. I used my grinder chuck to spin it while polishing. The products used, are in the pic. I got my polishing and buffing stuff from murrayfinnauto.com in Oregon. After some instruction emails, Murray even spent time on the phone advising me how to buff paint, great guy.

I had refinished the steering wheel a while back. Sure looks good when bolted to the shiny hub.

[Guest Dean_H.]

The vacuum fuel tank had bad threads on the bottom. In this picture the new fitting I soldered in can be seen. Also stripped the tank to paint.

Here it is painted and installed. The internals are in nice shape, it should work if I decide to use it. Don't let the temp. wiring scare you, I intend on doing a decent wire job when I get time. This is just so I can start the motor. I sure like to hear that old motor. Been running it a lot, had to add another five gallons of gas yesterday.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Dean —

I have been following you excellent work in restoring your Hup as an inspiration for doing a better and more patient job on my own cars. Your craftsmanship is astounding in so many different areas. I fear I can't come close to matching any of your skills, but that is not what this message is about.

As I followed your recent snaps showing your engine compartment I became aware that your car appears to share the same oil filter arrangement as my '28 Packard other than in mounting orientation.

I have found and installed what appears to be the same filter but had to fabricate a substitute fitting for the original item. Can you give me a clue as to where I might find such a fitting or even the manufacturer and part # for the filter? I have cleaned up and repainted the filter itself, and would like to adorn it with the proper decal. Osborn Reproductions makes a number of such decals, but I don't know which one is correct.

Attached is an illustration from the Packard manual of what appears to be an almost identical fitting to the part on your Hup.

Any information you might have would be seriously appreciated.

Pete P.

[Grandpa]

Hi Pete,

I would like to suggest that you check McMaster-Carr. Search for "Tube Fittings". They have a good selection of fittings with dimensioned drawings of each one. They do not have a minimum order size. Visit:

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Grandpa

[Guest Dean_H.]

Sorry Pete, I don't have any leads where you might find that part. My original appeared in good shape and I used it. It directs oil through the filter and has a spring loaded by-pass in case the filter becomes plugged. I noticed it was made of pot metal which worried me some, but no cracks. I've noticed a lot of cars have the same looking filter, probably could find an original at a swap meet or eBay.

Thanks for the compliments, Restoring an old car probably has more to do with staying motivated than skill level. It's so easy to loose interest.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Dean —

No apology is called for. I just thought you might have a lead on either the filter # or the actual connector.

When I found my filter (NOS) at a swap in CA 35 years ago, I immediately started looking for the proper connector. The fact I had to fabricate a poor substitute so I could use the filter says a lot about my success at finding the part # of the filter or a proper connector. I've been to a lot of swaps over the years with no success and eBay has had nothing to offer so far.

If the past pattern holds true, as soon as I do locate the proper connector, and give my first born in exchange, I will see such connectors at every swap I attend. This pattern has been the case for more parts than I care to remember, and I'm running out of off-spring. :-)

With my fabricated connector there is no by-pass provision, but if I read the diagram of the engine lubrication system correctly the filter is of the by-pass variety anyway rather than the full-flow type in common use today. A clogged filter will not effect oil pressure or flow to the bearings it will just mean that no portion of the oil will be filtered. I change the oil more often as a result.

There is a difference between the connector used on your Hup and the Packard version. On the Packard the input to the filter comes in axially and the output is radial. Both connections on the Hup part appear to be radial. The proper connector is a minor point that has nagged at me almost from the start of my work on the car. I can survive without the connector.

Do give serious consideration to using the vacuum fuel pump. Your car was designed with only gravity feeding gas to the carb and the vacuum fuel pump does that. If you use any other type of pump limiting the fuel delivery pressure becomes a problem. Vacuum fuel pumps are simple, reliable and just the right thing to match what the carb really needs. I have been running one on our Packard for 30 years and many miles without trouble and our '29 Lincoln has a similar pump which is also trouble free. If all the connections are tight and the mechanism operational the pump has to work.

Pete P.

[JFranklin]

The 1928 Hupmobile used a Purolater SG-2, I have an old one and will most likely set up a remote spin on filter. I think finding a new proper filter or good fitting will be a serious endever.

[Guest Dean_H.]

You're too funny Pete. I took a picture of the connector. It says Type SG and 8298.

On a hunch, I walked out to the barn and took a picture of the filter on my '29 Franklin. It sure looks the same as the Packard. I'll clean it tomorrow and see if it has any numbers. I listed the Franklin on eBay today. Sad to see it go, but my government bailout hasn't arrived yet. If you buy the car, the filter connector is included. Please bid early and often, my wife will thank you.

[1929Chrysler]

To add to Pete's comment on the vacuum canister as compared to the electric fuel pump and trust me when I tell you, I am no expert on the subject but I think it is worth mentioning.

From what I understand the electric fuel pump delivers a constant degree of fuel pressure to the carb much greater than gravity feed for which the system and carb was designed. If by some rare chance a leak of some sort develops after the float in the carburetor is no longer calling for gas and the constant pressure from the electric fuel pump continues to pump gas through the leak and it ignites on a hot manifold or however, you basically have an endless supply of fuel to an out of control fire. How do you extinguish that type of fire with raw fuel continuously feeding the fire?

I have the fuel canister gravity system and had problems at first but after working out the bugs it runs flawlessly and plus it's original! The majority of vacuum canister owners swear by their reliability.

I only mention my concern because the last thing I would want to see is a first class restoration destroyed by fire.

Dan

[Guest Dean_H.]

I would argue the electric pump is safer. All I need to do is turn off the key to stop the gas. With the vacuum tank I'd have to open the hood and shut the valve. Also my carb and system are not original and in fact quite capable of handling fuel pressure. I made my fuel lines from military surplus steel brake line material. It is of good quality and I double flared the ends - no compression fittings. I also secured it at quite a few points to prevent friction wear. The carb came off a tractor that was originally equipped with a manual fuel pump. I'm not sure of the psi it normally ran at but it would be safe to say it can handle some pressure. When I had it apart I noticed a viton seal on the float valve just like modern carbs. And last but not least, electric fuel pumps are quite common in newer cars.

With all that being said, I'm leaning toward the vacuum tank. It's original, should have bought a new car if I wanted something else. I wonder if the fuel ever runs out when climbing a hill?

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Dean —

Thanks for the very good picture of the connector on your Hup. And thanks also to JFranklin for the filter number in his response. I now know a lot more about both the filter used and the proper connector. New knowledge is always a good thing, and it sure helps in finding the correct parts.

Here in FL the highest point in the entire state is only some 300 ft above sea level so fuel starvation on hills is hardly a problem, but I did have the car for a number of years while we lived in CA and never had a fuel problem climbing a hill out there. It is conceivable that a long climb could lead to fuel starvation, but I have never had the problem.

I expect the car might overheat in such a situation before there was a fuel problem. A simple release of the throttle for a bit would increase the vacuum and solve the fuel problem anyway. Oh, that all problems with our old cars were so easily corrected.

Stay with the vacuum tank. It's original and absolutely reliable, until gravity is repealed.

Pete P.