Hypothetical question

[Guest windjamer]

A sixtys vech.(GM) left the fac. with a a/c oil filter #123456. It is 8 inches long. A owner orders a new filter from a GM dealer useing part#123456. When he rec. the filter it is labled A/C pn123456 but it is only 5 inches long. Would you take a deduction?????

[ex98thdrill]

I doubt anyone would. If they do, then I'd advise them to get a life.

[Terry Bond]

I'll resist the temptation to make a joke about the difference between five and six inches, but I am curious - why would you ask such a question?

Terry

[Guest quadfins]

This sounds like the obsessive judging that some Marque clubs get into - inspection stamps, proper paint daubs on sway bars, "correct" overspray and orange peel replicated on paint, etc... Would a judge at an AACA show really be crawling so far under a car as to measure such details? I hope not. It may be one thing when 16 identical Corvettes are lined up next to each other, and some minor differences must be found in order to determine which one is "best". But with the variety of cars in AACA classes, how could a judge possibly know every such detail on every production car within a 2 year period?

Let's just relax and enjoy the cars...

Jim Eccleston

1961 Coupe de Ville

BATILAC

[Guest windjamer]

Guys let me say first that my car has the right NOS oil filter. A/c pf10. Being a auto service shop since 1967 it wasnt to hard to come by.Pat you are so right,some folks need to get a life. Jim,I agree we need to relax a little.Terry I do have a reason for poseing my hypo. question and no it has absolutely nothing to do with filters. Tell you later.

[1937hd45]

This is why I avoid Post War car people. However I was happy to get $83.00 for a Boss 427 Oil Filter on eBay.

[Guest windjamer]

hd45 I sure can not blame you for takeing his $83.00, any pin head that would pay $83.00 for a $2.00 filter has to much money and to little brain.But you didnt give me an answer,would you take a point??? I doubt there are many cars out there pre-war or post that are runing on there original parts.Replacement parts MAY SOMETIMES have a slightly differant apperance,BUT if it is factory auth. with a factory p/n I say a deduction should not be taken. What say you??? Yes Im a irish german bull head.

[1937hd45]

I quit AACA judging after 30 years of it and 80+ chips ratteling around in a box somewere. If someone took off a point at an AACA event for a filter that was an inch too short they should have been slapped in front of the car owner, better yet BY the car owner. The system is just a tire size & valve cap, oil filter, hose clamp and hardward finish competion. If the filter cost the car a point what will a orange peal wavy panel get as a deduction? The post WWII car stuff is way too anal, the cars have no history so they make up the parts number stuff to intertain themselves. I used to be such a great hobby.

[Guest windjamer]

1937hd45 with the knowlage and experiance you have please concider comeing back. YOUR club needs you

[Shop Rat]

wj, all the owner needs to do is have proper documentation in case it is questioned. Sometimes due to new technology the appearance of a part is not just like when it was first made. And most people would not know how long the filter "used to be" anyway. And if they did they can question the owner and see that it has the correct numbers on it.

If it is correct by part number then no deduction should be taken.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: windjamer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1937hd45 with the knowlage and experiance you have please concider comeing back. YOUR club needs you </div></div>

Thanks, but that chapter is closed.

[Guest windjamer]

Susan and all, I know the ans., I submited the question only for the sake of discussion and cause some thought on common since judging. You say if a question arises to ask the owner for documantaion. After attending 14 meets I have never had a judge ask myself or my wife a question about one of our cars. I did have a team capt. I judged with ask me what to do about an owners trunk that got jamed and wouldnt open on the way to the meet. I forgot, I did have a lady capt. ask the wife if she thought having a candy dish on the front floor of her chevelle was worth a point at the buffalow AGNM. Thank you lady capt.

[1937hd45]

...............and you wanted me to rejoin that group?

[Guest bossmustang]

Since Joan and I have three Mustangs, we are some of the post war people that you "avoid". Our 1970 BOSS 302 Mustang is a Grand National winner and we really enjoy meeting and talking with ALL AACA members, regardless of what they own. Although I am not a brass-car fan, I do not avoid the owners. I really like the pre-war cars of the '30's. The Duesenberg, Cadillac, Lincoln and Chrysler cars of the '30's are spectacular automobiles. And I enjoy talking with the owners.

What do you say to a collector who has both era cars? Is the owner to be "avoided".

By the way, I would not deduct any points for the filter and Ford never made a BOSS 427. I worked for 40-years in Ford parts.

I'll probably be a team captain on a Mustang judging team in Maryland. Stop by and say hello if you come to the meet. Please don't "avoid" me. The post-war owners are nice people and the future of the organization.

Jim Aberts

West Chester, PA

[1937hd45]

Ok, Boss 428 or 429? Is wasn't the 302, it interchanged with a Ferrari and I was sure that was were it was going at that price. Jim, life is getting shorter and I don't have time to worry about 5 or 6 inch long oil filters or their part numbers. That is what I avoid, postwar vehilces are just a parts number and options discussion. You guys are winning, every year there is another wave of vehicles hitting the show field.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: windjamer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I forgot, I did have a lady capt. ask the wife if she thought having a candy dish on the front floor of her chevelle was worth a point at the buffalow AGNM. Thank you lady capt. </div></div>

wj, that is part of what a good Team Captain does in the pre-judging walk by. Especially with owners at their first show. They have no idea a lot of the time about things they can lose points on, silly things like a stuffed animal mascot that is okay at a local show. And sometimes people just forget, like your wife with the candy dish. Like you said...common sense judging.

[Guest windjamer]

Yes 37hd I want you to rejoin this group. If for nothing more than comradship.you have a huge amount of experance that needs to be passed on to younger folks in the hobby.As you say life is short,when all the old bucks like you and I are gone who will explane dwell and vacume to the kids,how many today know what plastigauge is?? Come on, meet me in the judges school,Ill buy your b/Fast

[1937hd45]

Nobody rebuilds engines anymore, they just measure oil filters, thanks for the offer.

[Guest imported_Matt M, PA]

In my era of interest, late '60s early '70s Chryslers....there were only really two length filters and both are very easy to get. However, in many cases, the filter was on the engine when the engine was painted...along with the negative battery cable, PCV valve and grommet, and other items.

Most owners use the reproduction red/white and blue "Mopar" filters on their show Mopars...but these are not assembly line correct either...but I have never heard of a deduction for that. (FWIW, on my '72 Scamp the filter is painted engine color)These filters seem to be accepted for judging.

I know on my 2000 Viper, it had a oil filter that looked just like the ones you can buy at the dealer...except it had "factory installed" printed on it.

Back on topic..if the AC filter has the right number, appearance, correct color, logos, etc... and only the length is different...I don;t think I'd make a deduction.

[Guest L.C.22]

How many (correct) filters can fit on the head of a pin

[Peter Gariepy]

I'm always amazed at the tangents a thread can take.

As an AACA Judge and having been Chief Judge a few times I think I can fairly say that the chances of someone judging a car down is virtually zero because of the size of their oil filter.

Having never judged a marquee event can I cant speak for their systems directly. I do know however that clubs like the Corvette, Model A and Model T clubs can get extremely picky. (Note that these are both post war and pre war car clubs 1937hd45)

FYI Windjamer: AACA Field Judges are not to speak to an owner. That is the job of a Team Captain. Also note there is no reason for a Team Captain to speak to an owner if there are not issues to discuss. See the Judges Manual "C:5. Only the team captain may engage in conversation with an owner."

Peter

[Guest windjamer]

Honest to God Peter, I just wanted to create discussion, I know of no one that has lost a point because of a oil filter. I chose filters because it is a possable 2 point deduction. I must admit I lost at least one point last year for (I think) a fuel filter. It came from a local GM dealership and carrys the factory part # but is shorter than original. IMHO I think a factory auth. replacement item should be accepted at least as much as a JIm Dandy fit m all repo. As a former Chief judge what say you

[Guest windjamer]

P/S I realy am LOL

[Terry Bond]

This has been fun but I'm taking two points for your bad spellung! I don't have a filter on my '14T so I'm not worried.

Terry

[Guest imported_Matt M, PA]

I think the "spirit" of the AACA rules are not so much that an oil filter is 1" longer or shorter....but more that the item itself is not a Fram of some other completely incorrect aftermarket item.

For example...a Fram oil or fuel filter...rather than an AC, Mopar or Motorcraft filter. It seems to me that a specific marque show may get into all the part numbers and such....but the AACA is more open in that regard.

Likewise, modern "replacement" parts from a dealer are not correct either. Often, even when our cars were new...the factory installed different parts than the factory used. Mopar, for example...were the replacement parts dealers used for service, tune-up and other work....and were not the same as the factory.

Modern "factory" replacement parts for a car built 40 years ago were superseded so many times that the parts have little resemblance the the originals. I know that when I restored my car, there was a heater valve that had been superseded to a part that was commonly available. This new part may have functioned...but it was drastically different in appearance....had I used this part I would have expected a deduction.

So to close...I would say that an AC filter would be AACA OK...but a Fram filter would be cause for deduction.

[oldford]

Save me some room on your booth at Hershey, Bob, It may be the only sane place to be.

Frank

[Peter Gariepy]

Windjamer,

From my experience losing a few points here and there really has no impact on how well a car points out. Example: If a car has all the big stuff right (authentic paint, body, interior, engine, etc. and the quality of restoration is good) then the car is gonna judge just fine. A few incidental points like an aftermarket hose, oil filter or fuel filter will not change the award a car receives.

Granted -- if the car is in a class with a lot of great cars, and the car in question has a lot of minor points taken off (hoses, clamps, fuel filter, oil filter, plastic pull ties on wiring, blue dot tail light inserts, and an in dash after-market radio, etc.) then it may slip down from a first to a second. So it's up to the owner to be diligent on the little things.

Back to this particular issue: As long as the oil filter has the factory markings and generally looks correct for the car and era I seriously doubt a judge would mark it off.

Peter