Is it becoming impractical to drive an antique?

[Dosmo]

I get the biggest kick out of seeing an antique car on the road - this is especially true if the car looks to be all original or restored to original. I recently passed a 56 Chevy 4dr sedan restored to what looked to be original and the look of it just practically warmed my heart. And, I've owned several antiques in my lifetime, but not currently. I've been wrestling with what must be a change in my thinking about old cars. I'd really love to own one, but I don't believe that I feel particularly safe in an old car with OEM braking, suspension, etc. Add to that the lack of safety equipment that is standard on most new cars, seat belts, air bags, and so on.

I know that it is possible to go back and update most old cars to more modern braking systems and suspensions, but I feel that with certain cars, doing this would hurt the value. Add to all of this an old car's penchant for gas guzzling with the price of fuel heading for who knows where.

Trying to update an old car to drive comfortably and practically in today's environment is technically possible, I guess, but it seems like an incredibly expensive and involved process for someone like me, who is, let's say, mechanically challenged.

I'd like to read some posts from those who have successfully, at least in their opinion, successfully converted their antique rides in such a way that they are compatible with practical and safe operation in today's automotive environment.

[MCHinson]

I have a Model A Ford. As long as you are talking about driving around town and you don't want to travel at interstate speeds, and you can live with the wind in your face instead of air conditioning, the only thing that you need to do to drive it is to correctly restore it. The mechanical brakes on a Model A Ford work wonderfully when they are in like new condition. Most people who say bad things about Model A Brakes have only driven one with worn out or badly adjusted brakes. It needs no modifications or "conversion" to make it drivable. These cars were made to be driven. My Model A is registered for the upcoming Sentimental tour and it will certainly be driven then. I am new to touring, but I am sure that there are others here who can tell you stories about the tours that they have driven.

[mrpushbutton]

I echo MCHinson's thoughts above re: the perception of how poorly a certain vintage's brakes work vs. the experiences I have had with properly rebuilt (restored) systems and a few amazing low mile survivor cars I have driven.

The "drivability" issue is the standard rationalization for street rodding, I have heard it over and over again "well, you just can't drive those old cars". I disagree. If you have a model A Ford like MC suggests (a great car) you aren't going to get on the interstate and try to keep up with the soccer moms and type-A Dodge Ram drivers, you are going to stay on surface streets, choose the time of day and day of week for your driving and in those choices you are well within the physics of the brakes, steering and acceleration of that vehicle.

Drum brakes can fade with frequent use, we are all pretty spoiled by disc brakes these days, but I know of very few accidents because of brake fade.

If you are that concerned about all of this I would suggest you buy a Plymouth Prowler or a PT cruiser, that way you have the vintage look with modern engineering, 300 times more engineering than goes into a street rod.

I like my cars the way they were built. That is the charm, which is what makes it the time machine that transports me out of the world of today. I'm not going to let the price of gas get to me either. It gone up, for sure but I'm only going through life this one time, and I personally like old cars, they make me happy and I can rationalize the cost of fuel, even today.

In summary:

1) We owe it to all other motorists on the road to make sure your vintage car has completely functional brakes, steering and suspension in the interest of safety. Nothing more than making those systems as (mechanically competent as) they were when they were new.

2) You have to choose the appropriate time to drive a certain vintage car on roads that are at that moment of the day able to accommodate them.

3) Life is short, old cars make me happy, this is how I choose to spend my disposable income. People buy lots of impractical things, motor homes, snowmobiles, ATVs, boats (hugely impractical) other people collect plastic figures from star wars and have as much money tied up in that as some of us do with our cars. It's all about how you find enjoyment in your one trip through this life.

[West Peterson]

I agree. I've never heard a good reason for modernizing a vintage car, except for using better fluids here and there.

[Restorer32]

We have worked on the occasional street rod and I'm here to tell you that a good bit of the backyard engineering that goes into most rods is downright dangerous. Worked on one where the owner had welded a tow hitch directly to the gas tank. Ignorance must be bliss when it comes to driving some of the alledged "modernized" streetrods on the roads today. Rodders do not modify cars to make them more drivesble, they do it because it's the style and to impress their friends.

[Bhigdog]

What the other guys say is pretty much it. In truth the older cars are "inferior" to todays cars in both maintenance needed and drivability. Notice I didn't say today's cars are more enjoyable to drive.

To drive your old car safely and enjoyably all you have to do is pick where and how to drive them. The older cars don't have the steering and stopping abilities of the new ones so you drive them more carefully and defensively. You also enjoy being transported back in time to the way it used to be. That's one of the reasons I insist on my cars being bone stock. I want the full experiance. I won't even replace the vibrator in my radios with solid state ones because I enjoy hearing the buzz when I turn on the radio while it "warms up".

One thing I do insist on however is seat belts and I strongly reccomend them for everyone, even though they may only be lap belts......Bob

[Bill Stoneberg]

I have slightly newer vintige vehicals then the Model A listed above and I have no issues driving them anywhere and at anytime withen reason. I hate getting stuck in traffic in either one of mine but out on the side roads or even the interstates I have no isssue.

The 47 Buick I drive will drive along quite nicely at 65 mph. I stay in the right lane on the interstates and wave at people who give me a one finger salute. Most jut point and smile though. I drove it to TN ftom TX a few years ago and it was mainly interstates.

The 64 Riviera will more then keep up with traffic. It can pass anything it wants in a real hurry. We drove it from TX to Seattle and back last year on interstates and side roads. Had a ball if it would have been so blessed hot.

I wont use either of them as daily drivers but for a weekend trip or just to drive, I dont have a problem with either one.

[Matt Harwood]

Agree 100% with everyone here. Get rid of that misconception that old cars are inherently dangerous or unreliable by design. They worked well when new, they'll work well now. This attitude is absolutely <span style="font-style: italic">killing</span> our hobby when newcomers consider jumping in. It's just not true.

Drive smart: leave a little more stopping distance in front of you, anticipate red lights and use surface streets instead of highways (although any 40s-50s car should cruise pretty easily at modern highway speeds). In the same way you noticed that Chevy, others will notice you and that will add to the safety--you're highly visible. Crashes with injuries are <span style="font-style: italic">incredibly</span> rare in antique cars.

Of course, if you expect a 50+ year-old car to drive like a new car, you'll inevitably be disappointed. However, if you can appreciate an old car for what it is and drive with some common sense, I can almost guarantee that you'll never get in trouble. That's part of the fun of owning an old car--enjoying the machine doing its thing the same way it did when it was built. Upgrades like you describe will erase the very things that make an old car special.

Nothing feels like a vintage car. I see guys building rods who proudly claim they drive like modern trucks (as if that's an improvement). Well, I've already got a modern truck and if I want to drive something that feels like a modern truck, I'll drive it. What I don't have is anything that feels like a vintage car except my vintage cars. If you want the looks of an old car but the performance and convenience of a modern car, I agree that you might be happier with a Prowler or a PT Cruiser or some kind of replica like a fiberglass Model A on a Pinto chassis. But for the total experience, nothing beats the real thing.

Vintage cars will hold their value, too. Most passed the bottom of the depreciation curve decades ago and are back on the way up or at least holding steady. If you take care of it and don't let it deteriorate under your care, it's hard to lose money on an old car.

As for gas mileage, who cares? Are you going to be using the car as a daily driver? How many miles a year? Surely not as many as your regular car. I'm guessing it'll be a nice day, pleasure drive car. How much gas will you really use driving, say, 5000 miles a year in an old car, even at 12-15 MPG? A drop in the bucket. I'll keep driving my hobby cars until they pull the last drop of $25/gallon gas out of the ground.

Updating an old car does not necessarily make it safer nor easier to drive, either. As others have said, original cars were designed by some pretty smart engineers and built by large companies with vast resources. "Updating" a car typically involves one guy in his garage with some basic knowledge and some hand tools re-engineering the car's most important systems. I know which one makes me feel safer, and it isn't the one with the "modern" brakes...

Put your fears aside and jump in. This is an amazing hobby with millions of fans who enjoy their cars all the time. There's a reason for that.

Looking forward to hearing about your new car!

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoneberg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I stay in the right lane on the interstates and wave at people who give me a one finger salute. Most jut point and smile though. </div></div>

Holy cow, Bill. Do people really flip you off in the old car? I've never experienced that, even when I made the mistake of driving the 1930 Model A to work one day. Everyone seemed to enjoy seeing it, even though they were going to be 2.3 minutes late getting to work that day.

If that's true, our society has fallen even farther than I thought...

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have worked on the occasional street rod and I'm here to tell you that a good bit of the backyard engineering that goes into most rods is downright dangerous. Worked on one where the owner had welded a tow hitch directly to the gas tank. Ignorance must be bliss when it comes to driving some of the alledged "modernized" streetrods on the roads today. Rodders do not modify cars to make them more drivesble, they do it because it's the style and to impress their friends. </div></div>

First, I've learned that a "good bit" of the folks who populate this forum are completely closed minded when it comes to modifying an older car. We might as well be discussing religion or politics.

I can appreciate the work involved in a correct restoration just as much as I can appreciate the work in a street rod or modified car. A single example of an idiot is not sufficient to condemn all rodders. I'm sure there are plenty of examples of similarly stupid redneck engineering in the resto world also.

As for why modify an older car, I'll take disk brakes, full pressure engine oiling, modern radial tires, electric wipers, and 12V alternators over crappy OEM equipment any day, particularly on something I plan to drive regularly.

[RansomEli]

I took my 1921 Franklin touring out in the Texas hill country for a 60 mile jaunt last Sunday. Back roads all the way and a cruising speed of 38 mph. It was a blast, pure heaven

I made sure I wasn't causing any traffic jams, moved out of the way at appropriate points and planned by braking points well in advance. Absolutely no problems and everyone on the road was thrilled to see me. [This may be a Texas thing. It has been my experience that Texas drivers are courteous to a fault.]

I would not trade the experience of driving an old touring car along back country roads for anything. It's an experience everyone should have.

P.S. I have found that bikers are the group of people most appreciative of the Franklin. I get lots of waves and thumbs-up.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe_padavano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

First, I've learned that a "good bit" of the folks who populate this forum are completely closed minded when it comes to modifying an older car. We might as well be discussing religion or politics.</div></div>

Perhaps we should clarify: if you <span style="font-style: italic">want</span> to modify your car, please do it and go out and have fun with your car! Build it the way you want and the way that will bring you the most pleasure, either in the construction or the driving when it's done. For many, it's the journey, not the destination that is the fun part. I can appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a well-done rod as much as I appreciate the craftsmanship that went into building an old car decades ago.

However, I think Joe is missing the crux of this particular discussion. Yes, there are many who think rodding is the antithesis of this hobby. However, right now we're talking about whether upgrades are "necessary" to make an otherwise original old car suitable for use today. And the overwhelming opinion is no, you don't need to update your car if your only reason for doing so is because you feel the original equipment is inherently unsafe or unreliable. If you want to do it because you enjoy the craftsmanship aspects of building your own rod or because you don't want the original experience, nobody here will think any less of you or try to talk you out of it.

We're just saying that any well-maintained old car with all its original equipment in working order isn't a danger to public safety nor to its occupants. It doesn't <span style="font-style: italic">need</span> upgrading to be enjoyed today.

PS: To make Joe's point for him, I've heard of an old '30s Dodge that was restored by an elderly plumber. He converted all the threads on the car to NPT so that he could use the hardware he had on hand. Talk about a car that is ruined forever...

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe_padavano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As for why modify an older car, I'll take disk brakes, full pressure engine oiling, modern radial tires, electric wipers, and 12V alternators over crappy OEM equipment any day, particularly on something I plan to drive regularly. </div></div>

I've got no problems with my "crappy" OEM stuff: Six volts starts it right up, powers my a/c, bias ply tires handle wonderfully, and the vacuum wipers work great.

When I first got the car, almost all of those items needed attention. Rather than spend the time and money on replacing them all, I just spent the time making them work the way they were when new.

[West Peterson]

... and, since my reliable NEW van has been in the shop for the past 3 or 4 weeks, the Packard has been my daily driver.

[Ron Green]

For me I enjoy the feel of an old vehicle when driving it including all the sounds clear down to the mechanical clock. Seems to me if you change to many things you will take the "oldness" out of it. Why not just by a newer car and resto it.

[K8096]

I see you have a bunch of Olds's. I drove a '72 Cutlass as an everyday car from 1997 - 2000 & put 70,000 miles on it. I drove it in the winter too. When I replaced the alternator and voltage regulator it still wasn't charging correctly, so I ended up converting the alternator to a "one wire system" thus eliminating the regulator all together, and it was fine for three years like that. I paid $1500 for the car, and put another $1500 into it over the three years I had it. I sold it for $3000 - thus breaking even and "riding for free" for three years I drove it. The person I sold it to drove it for 2 years & sold it for $2900 - just about breaking even again. It was a base model 350 engine with 2 barrel carb & got pretty good milage. It has 4 wheel drum brakes with NO POWER BOOSTER and I had no problem driving it in the snow.

[Dynaflash8]

I could say a lot more, but I won't.

QUOTE: As for why modify an older car, I'll take disk brakes, full pressure engine oiling, modern radial tires, electric wipers, and 12V alternators over crappy OEM equipment any day, particularly on something I plan to drive regularly. UNQUOTE

1) My 1939 Buick brakes stop a heck of a lot better then the 1999 GMC Suburban 2500 I just traded in.

2) It has full pressure oiling

3) thank God no radial tires. I've had umpteen blowouts with radial tires from ply separations, and one blowout in my first 25 years of driving on bias tires, and it was a used tire I bought.

4) My gas mileage is as bad as the new 6.0 Chevy Suburban, but I drive the old cars maybe 1,000 miles a year each, maybe more, but whenever I want to.

5) The one area of concern has to do with living in central Florida where all cross country roads are two lane except the absolutely awful I-4. The semi trucks run those two lane roads just as fast as they can go, with little impedance from police, and as I drive along at 55-60 I do worry about one of them running over me. I can run with traffic on Route 27 north and south by comparison, which is a four lane state highway. I do trailer to long distance tours mostly to save wear and tear because of the lack of capable mechanics and the availablity of parts.

[javabug]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe_padavano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

First, I've learned that a "good bit" of the folks who populate this forum are completely closed minded</div></div>

Its really limited to only those who post.

[stock_steve]

"Practicality" I guess is a subjective word. But I agree with many who've already posted on this subject that older cars, in decent, unmodified shape, with proper normal maintenance, can and will deliver safe, useful transportation. Plus they're a heck of a lot more fun than some generic modern car or truck (in my view). Just have to make sure you keep in mind what you're driving, and drive with all appropriate attention and defensive techniques (yes, I've also encountered those on the highway who do not seem happy to be sharing the road with an old car--but the majority seem more *oblivious* than anything--and they can certainly be just as dangerous). Hot rodding's cool too, but that's not really my personal cup of tea. Live and let live, though, I say.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, I've learned that a "good bit" of the folks who populate this forum are completely closed minded when it comes to modifying an older car. We might as well be discussing religion or politics.</div></div>

First you need to understand where you are. You are on the forums provided by the Antique Automobile Club of America. Our main drive is to preserve vehicles as they came from the factory. Either as very good originals or restored as closely as possible to how they looked when they were new.

We are not a street rod/modified club. There are plenty of great clubs for those type cars. And some folks here have street rods or modified cars. But they can't be shown at our shows or used in our events.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for why modify an older car, I'll take disk brakes, full pressure engine oiling, modern radial tires, electric wipers, and 12V alternators over crappy OEM equipment any day, particularly on something I plan to drive regularly. </div></div>

And that is your right as the owner of any vehicle. Just understand that this is not the place to try to push street rod and modified agendas. It is not what this club is all about.

[Ron Green]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dynaflash8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could say a lot more, but I won't. </div></div>

Earl, for the record I am not for modifying a old car. My quote was:

"For me I enjoy the feel of an old vehicle when driving it including all the sounds clear down to the mechanical clock. Seems to me if you change to many things you will take the "oldness" out of it. Why not just by a newer car and resto it."

[eric_b_1937]

It is fine driving a restored antique on today’s roads but you must drive defensively and remember that most people are ignorant of your car’s performance and intended use.

Model A hotrod with 300 hp or original 40 hp it all looks the same to most people.

Even the cheapest car’s today are around 100 hp and good brakes so don’t try to race a jalopy geo, with your original car. Leave room and let them by, then watch out for when they cut you off and think you can stop on a dime. Driving an antique requires a lot more thought, planning and driving skill then a new Lexus with automatic parking and idiot collision avoidance cruse control. I believe that is what makes it fun you have to actually operate the machine.

I think the best experience is using the car for its intended purpose. The pre war and forty’s cars were all designed to drive on dirt roads and this is where they show their strengths. Driving a 1929 Model A Ford truck I took a 1300 mile trip to the Colorado Rockies and traveled over several mountain passes on jeep trails that made Pikes Peak look like a super highway. On the back roads I saw over accessorized and lifted jeeps, and people would ask “How did you get up here with that old car?” Well that is what it was designed for and it can climb like a Billy goat. Smart driving and transmission breaking on down slopes allowed me to rarely use brakes and there is so little traffic on these roads braking distance isn’t an issue anyway.

A few years ago I was driving my 1956 ford truck on a free way and a man rear ended me because traffic slowed. His modern car was disabled and my steel bumper and rear panel were smashed but I could drive away, as the modern car sat crushed waiting for a flatbed truck. If I ever have any more wrecks with any of my antiques I hope it’s against a car that’s modern and will crumple. For that reason It may be safer driving today then in the fifty’s when all the cars were big and stiff.

I think what it comes down to is the safety is determined by the skill of the driver. To protect yourself from others install safety belts, make sure your door latches work well, and you have a well maintained car.

Do you think you have driving skills?

Original Model T = High driver skill

T Bucket with an automatic, disc brakes, and cruse control = Low driver skill

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm sure there are plenty of examples of similarly stupid redneck engineering in the resto world also.

</div></div>

"Redneck engineering" cannot occur when you're replicating to work of Detroit's (or Turin's, or Coventry's, or Yokohama's, etc.) engineering. If somebody's making stuff up on the fly, they're not "restoring" anything.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'd like to read some posts from those who have successfully, at least in their opinion, successfully converted their antique rides in such a way that they are compatible with practical and safe operation in today's automotive environment. </div></div>

Until recently I owned a 1960 Buick with a rare optional low-compression/regular gas engine. It was rated 25 hp lower than the standard engine.

And until I bought my Prius, it was the fastest car I owned, with better brakes than most and better handling (with radials) than any of my pickup trucks over the last 20 years.

The 1956 Chevy you saw would be very similar in performance, with better handling and similar braking to my Buick. It's really only the VERY old stuff (50-60 years plus) that stock performance on <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> highways becomes an issue. There is nothing about the driving characteristics of older cars that's inherently dangerous. Anyone using simple common sense and treating the car with anything like the care/respect it deserves will <span style="text-decoration: underline">never</span> find themselves in an unsafe situation of their own creation. Avoiding the bad situations of others' creation is an easily aquired skill.

As for gas-guzzling, that doesn't <span style="text-decoration: underline">have</span> to be an issue. There were plently of relatively fuel efficient cars available throughout the age of the automobile. I recall my father's bat-finned 1959 Chevy BelAir (6 cyl. 3-speed) getting a reliable 35 mpg on highway trips (25 mpg in town), and several Ramblers we owned that did the same. That '56 Chevy you saw probably isn't much different, unless it was a V8 that's been messed with. Unless you go in for a tiny car like a Crosley or a Metropolitan you're not going to see a 40 mpg car, but if you're not driving it 10,000 miles/yr. what's the big deal?

<span style="font-weight: bold">However it should be said, first and foremost, that driving an antique car <span style="font-style: italic">SHOULD</span> be a different experience. People dress up in mountaineering gear to go to the mall these days, and wear running shoes to eat hot dogs at the drive-in. Cars should be different than that. It simply isn't as fun to be in a modern car, and the degree to which an antique becomes modern is the degree to which it dies.</span>

[Guest Skyking]

I'll ditto to most of the posters......My '62 Buick has been driven over 30,000 miles since I've had it with radial tires as the only modification. Never a problem. My best experience was driving my '66 Skylark from RI to Flint in 2003. I would have never enjoyed that trip more in a newer car. There's a certain feel about driving an old car that no new car can give.............

[ex98thdrill]

I think it all depends on where you live, the weather conditions, road conditions and traffic patterns. We drive our old cars on the road when the weather is good, but if we're going to a show that isn't within commuting distance, we trailer 'em. We stay off of the interstates, and for the most part, there's no issues.

Granted you concerns about safety issues are valid reasons, you also have to understand that most of these old cars won't be driven as fast as your regular daily driver, and you'll most likely not have them out in bad weather. If I think I'm going to get caught after dark, I have some of those reflective trailer decals that you see on the newer trailers. What we've done is bought a package of those reflective trailer decals, stuck them on magnet material, and if we get caught in the dark, we stick the magnets on the back of the vehicle for added visibility.

If you want to get an old car, I'd encourage you to do so. Are these vehicles as safe as the new cars??? NO, but on the same token, you still have a better chance of walking away from a crash with an old car than you ever will with a motorcycle. Besides if fate goes against you, why not go out in style...

[The Old Guy]

I have driven my 1940 Buick over 106,000 miles, and with the exception of Roadmaster brakes, and a different rear axle ratio, it is stock. I agree that you must drive more defensivly, but most people that see you on the road will give you a little extra room, just so they can look at the car better. I am not a purist , as I have installed overdrive trannies in my 69 and 72 Buicks to make them more economical to drive, and they will run the interstates with ease. There are two separate groups of hobbiests, and one feels that the slightest deviation from stock is a sacrilige, and they feel that their car is a work of art. the other group ( which I am one of ) feels that an antique car is an alternate form of transportation ,and should be enjoyed by driving the wheels off it.

[Dosmo]

Excellent posts by everyone. After reading all of these, I realize that my original post didn't really address what was on my mind. I'm talking about using an antique as a daily driver. I used my 54 Chrysler wagon as my ONLY transportation for 9 months in 1994. It was quite an adventure, but I got the crap scared out of me due to the braking system. The brakes had been refurbished from master cylinder to wheel cylinder, lines, shoes, etc. Basically, everything had been rebuilt except the booster, which did not work at all. I topped a hill on a 4-lane hwy at about 60MPH, and traffic was bowed up dead still at the bottom. I hit the brake pedal quickly, and it caught momentarily, then slammed to the floor. Luckily, I had a very good emer. brake which locked up the wheels about 3-4 times before I slowed to a stop. Slid sideways and nearly ran a little old lady off the road. Man did she give me a look. I never felt the same driving that car after that. Bought a $750 beater and drove it for the next year.

This is the kind of issue I'm concerned with. Do you really trust your braking system in a car this old, even if it's completely gone through? I'm a little concerned about putting my family in a car this old with an OEM braking system.

I completely understand that most people don't drive these cars as daily drivers - but, that's what I think I'd want to do if I bought another one. And, I'm looking for opinions as to the practicality of such a move.

[Barry Wolk]

There are still plenty of cars that are equipped with rear drum brakes.

The brakes on my '56 Continental Mark II are as good as the brakes on my '77 Town Car. Drum brake technology hasn't changed much at all over the years.

What braking boils down to is contact area of the brake shoes. Arcing new shoes to exactly match the diameter of the drum is a critical factor. From the first stop, you get full contact. I've found that letting shoes "wear in" to match the size of the drum leads to glazed surfaces.

I like my car because it was one of the first of the 12-volt cars, had some safety features and used technology I'm familiar with. A lot of it hasn't changed, to this day.

I'm as comfortable dawdling down a country road at 45 as I am on the freeway at slightly above the speed limit.

[1937hd45]

There is no rule that says you have to drive the car, guys work on cars for their entire lifetime and never get to drive them. Having the car is all that matters to a lot of people, after 10 years without a vintage car on the road I'm starting to enjoy that outlook.

[Bhigdog]

Personally I wouldn't want any of my collector cars as daily drivers. Just the scheduled maintenance would be a back breaker. My daily drivers have NO grease fittings, sealed wheel bearings, no points, 7500 or 15000 mile oil changes, no adjust disc brakes, no carb., 100,000 mile plugs, no "tune ups" to speak of, etc etc etc.

They are comfortable, have power everthing, A/C, anti-lock brakes, air bags, CD players, GPS, energy absorbing crumple zones, etc etc etc.

The down side is other than very routine, simple, and obvious repairs they are unrepairable to the average owner. They are "cookie cutter" designs with little personallity, and are little more than appliances.

Not trying to step on anyones toes here but when I want to take my wife on a trip or make a daily commute I'll take my Durango or Ram 2500 every time.

But when we want to go for a Sunday drive, go get an ice cream, or just take a leisurly drive down nostalgia lane and turn a few heads from passers by the Oldies are the Goodies.........Bob

[CarlLaFong]

As for gas-guzzling, that doesn't have to be an issue. There were plently of relatively fuel efficient cars available throughout the age of the automobile. I recall my father's bat-finned 1959 Chevy BelAir (6 cyl. 3-speed) getting a reliable 35 mpg on highway trips (25 mpg in town), and several Ramblers we owned that did the same.

The older we I get, the better I was.

In 1959, a Rambler American won the Mobile Economy Run at a bit over 25 MPG. No 59 Chev could ever get, even close, to that figure.

[The Old Guy]

I grew up with mechanical brakes, so even having a single master cylinder is still much more than what is necessary. I drive my old cars from may to September every day. The only time I use a beater is when it will be parked in a bad area, or the weather is REALLY bad.

In all fairness, we don't have the traffic that some of the big cities have, and that makes a lot of difference.

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Old Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The other group ( which I am one of ) feels that an antique car is an alternate form of transportation, and should be enjoyed by driving the wheels off it. </div></div> Well said, Swartz Creek! Count me in that group, too. I build my cars FOR ME, not for anyone else who thinks it should be something else.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Wolk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... I've found that letting shoes "wear in" to match the size of the drum leads to glazed surfaces.</div></div> Now, Barry. I got a lot of respect for you, but glazing comes from overheating. Go easy on new brakes for awhile and you won't have that problem. I never did.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 54nuyorkrwagon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I'm talking about using an antique as a daily driver. ...The brakes had been refurbished from master cylinder to wheel cylinder, lines, shoes, etc. Basically, everything had been rebuilt except the booster, which did not work at all. </div></div> Ok, your car was designed for, and came with, POWER BRAKES. An 8-inch booster with 20 inches of engine vacuum will provide about 240 lbs. of brake assist, THAT YOU DON'T HAVE. How can that be a machine's fault, old or new?

Wear & tear, goes along with daily USE! Naturally, things go back to the earth all by themselves. If you want to shake dice and bring a classic out every day, be prepared for whatever comes along. I saw a three-car accident today. Why? Because it rained. (They surround us.)

[buellhall]

We are an interesting lot to say the least.... We are usually 55 plus... Most of us Viet Nam vets and still carring some wounds that will never heal... We have raised our families and found God along the way. We still support our president even when its not the popular thing to do... We have played the corporate game and may have a little savings in a 401K. I must say nothing is more exciting than shifting gears in my old 39 Chrysler... I can hear every gear and every noise they are a great joy to me... The wind blowing in the windows take me back to my days on the farm where A/C was only at the drug store and food store... we did not like the A/C just something not natural about it. Nothing against the hot rod folks... I just like the old stuff the way it was. Yes we are an interesting lot to say the least!!!

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (They surround us.)

</div></div>

Ummmm........that's one BIG reason I wouldn't use one for a daily driver. Way too many brainless people driving today.

[Barry Wolk]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Old Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

... I've found that letting shoes "wear in" to match the size of the drum leads to glazed surfaces.</div></div> Now, Barry. I got a lot of respect for you, but glazing comes from overheating. Go easy on new brakes for awhile and you won't have that problem. I never did.</div></div>

Please take into account that initial shoe contact on a mismatched curve can be as little as 25% yet people don't allow for "brake-in" and end up overheating the small contact area, leading to glazing.

I'm sure you have a full understanding of this principal and use your new brakes gently. Most people don't. For a few dollars, I like having my full brake potential, right out of the box.

I know it's not a common practice anymore but my uncle owned an old-school service station and he always arced the shoes to match the drum. His logic was correct, in my mind. All cars would have different diameter drums yet one arc on the shoe set was suppose to grab all drums equally. Matching the arc to the drum gave 100% potential braking as the car left the station.

He taught me to be very thorough and to always replace the spring set and fasteners. He claimed his brake jobs lasted longer than anyone else's. I understand the practice is still in place in the heavy truck industry.

[Mike Cullen]

As for "everyday drivers" pretty much any post war car, properly maintained would be acceptable for routine use. Of course if I lived in a big city, or highly populated area such as DC, NY, etc. it would be a different story. My 36 Lincoln is a pretty good example and illustrates the items of concern.

#1- lighting: The headlights aren't sealed beams, but are fine. Of course it's important to not overdrive your lights, regardless of whether it's a modern or an oldie. The taillights are small, and getting rear ended is a concern because many other drivers are inattentive. Another issue with the taillights is that there are no signal lights, today's drivers are clueless about hand signals, I've overcome some of my worries with this by tapping the brake pedal rapidly 5-6 times prior to making a hand signal in order to get the other guys attention.

#2- Brakes: No problem at all, I have cable brakes and they stop the car fine, of course they have to be properly adjusted and you have to realize that your stopping distances are not as short as modern cars with disc ABS systems. In a panic stop situation you can stop it pretty well, the key is to not put yourself into a situation where a panic stop is necessary.

#3- Tires: not an issue, properly inflated bias tires are fine, as long as the suspension system is in good shape.

#4- Speed: Even though it's a V12, it's no hot rod. In the era when my car was new, the average travel speeds likely were in the 30-40 MPH range. I can cruise all day in the 50-60 MPH range, but with a change of rear end gears, or a Columbia rear axle, I would have no trouble running 60-70 on the interstates. In my opinion, higher speeds like that for extended periods of time tend to put you in the range where other shortcomings are amplified such as brakes, lighting, tires, etc. So I stick with the surface roads and the 50-60 range.

#5- Economy: At 50 MPH, even with a V12, I get 14-15 MPG, better than I got with my modern 97 F150 with a V6, and overdrive.

The bottom line, would my Zephyr be a practical commuter car, every day use? no. It's fine for occasional use, and weekend fun driving, etc. A slightly newer car with hydraulic brakes, bigger taillights, signal lights, sealed beam headlights and a set of radials would be fine for an everyday, even commuter car here, maybe not in a bigger city but here a post war car properly maintained would be fine.

I've been watching for that kind of car for that exact purpose for a while now, since I only have a motorcycle, and the rainy season is coming.

The idea that older cars are not safe and must be upgraded to modern standards is a justification to build a hot rod. If you want a hot rod, build one. Driving a vintage car on a regular basis requires that the driver posess a higher level of skill and maturity. If you don't posess the skills or are too lazy to pay attention all the time, build a hotrod, or drive a modern car.

[HarryJ]

I'm glad someone brought up this subject as I have been thinking about it for some time. I love to drive my antique cars and have driven antiques for nye on forty years. My very first car (of any type) was a 1929 model"A" Ford which I still have. Of late however, driving my cars in modern traffic has at times proven to be somewhat nerve racking. I live and have my shop in downtown Atlanta Georgia and let me tell you the nature of traffic has changed in the last ten to fifteen years. Atlantans zip arround even on quiet residential streets. The vehicles built in the last ten years I feel can almost out handle Ferraris of the 60's. Coupled with that most modern younger drivers I think don't have any idea of the limits and capabilities of their automobiles. As I said I started driving an unrestored model "A" and learned sometimes you have brakes sometimes you don't. I feel today us antiquers are facing a situation like that faced by the quakers in Pennslyvania in the late 60's. Alot of you I'm sure live in small towns or out from major population centers and can drive at your leisure; however people like me are becoming increasingly aware how out classed our cars are on today's city streets. Again I own cars of the 20's and today my mechanical brakes work just fine; but dealing with people who zip arround you right before a traffic light or stop sign and end up 15' stopped in front of you is unnerving. I don't intend to stop driving my cars. Driving in Atlanta's traffic has become a chore and not much fun.

[Guest Hinckley]

The question of impracticality in driving an old car is dependant on two things. One, are you driving the car for enjoyment. Two, are you going to depend on the car as regular transportation.

If you are driving for fun then pick a car you like and use common sense. Don't buy a Model A Ford and plan on driving coast to coast on the interstate highways. You can, however, make the trip and in that car by taking the backroads.

I live in the desert southwest and as a result can drive a vintage car all year round. I also live in a small town and work is only two miles away. So, I can and often have made an original old vehicle a daily driver.

Many older vehicles, if properly maintained, can be reliable, safe, and even fuel efficient. Consider a Nash vehicle built after the war, or most any car with overdrive.

Next to common sense the most important thing is to not succumb to the propaganda that an old car has to be modified if it is to be driven.