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1929Chrysler

General question about you Dodge people

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I was talking with someone a couple months ago and I was telling them that sometimes when I have a question and I ask it on the Chrysler forum I don't exactly always get what I'm looking for and they responded that there are more knowledgeable and helpful people on the Dodge forum. Is this true? I would hate for that to be the case because we all know that Chrysler's are MUCH better than Dodges!!! HA HA!!

But seriously, I asked a question about water pumps on this forum and got much more information than I expected. Thank you!! If I have a technical question, would you recommend I ask it here or where?

Thanks in advance

Dan

1929 Chrysler

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If I have a technical question, would you recommend I ask it here or where?

Would suggest you ask Dodge questions on the Dodge board, Buick questions on the Buick board, and general questions (not about any specific car) on the general board.

Please DO NOT repeat the same question on every board. It's annoying as hell and doesn't get you any more response. I'll only answer one of them and I'm thinking of ignoring such posts altogether. Some of us are still on dialup because no other choice is available and anything that burns bandwidth is a pissoff.

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It may be annoying to you, but I disagree. Not everyone reads all of the different boards, and casting a wider net can, and does, lead to more and different responses. I have seen questions asked on this board, with no answers or response, but being posted on a different board the question gets answered, or at least someone can point the person in the right directon.

I was a member of the DB club for over ten years and finally stopped renewing my membership for a couple of reasons, mostly however due to the poor quality of the newsletter. There was never a standing column written by any of the technical advisors, let alone the head technical advisor. The almost four pages of "stuff people saw on eBay" every issue seemed a little wasteful to me as well. These and a host of other reasons lead to my leaving the DB Club, I still have my DB and enjoy it very much.

I will admit (quite happily) that over the last year to year and a half, the number of people that actually post on this board has increased, and that is a good thing to see happen. Now if we can get the level of participation on this board up to the level of mtfca.com or fordbarn.com, or even the Packard section of this forum, then we'll be doing great. A lot of different people out there have a lot of different information, we just need to share that information, and help each other out.

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Sorry to hear this, John. The club is WAY more then a newsletter. Have you ever been to any of the meets and actually met anyone involved with the club? I've gone through every newsletter several times since the club began. I think it has lots of very usefull information. I've read complaints how it caters to the four cylinder cars only. I say hogwash to that! Since I recently bought a six cylinder car I've gone back through them again and found almost everything I was looking for and more.

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Not to hijack the original thread at all.

I do understand that there is more to a club than just it's newsletter/publication. As for going to the DB meets they have simply been to far away to travel, due to work, family or just sheer cost.

The national meet that was held in Traverse City was not even 30 miles away from me and my car. I could attend, but my car could not due to a problem with the brakes which could not be figured out and made it unsafe to drive, not a new problem but one that had been with the car since I had bought it from a DBC member. At the meet I had talked to numerous individuals about the problem with my car and all that I got from everyone was "talk to this guy" again and again. When I asked if anyone might want to come by and take a look at it, I was told by more than one person "well, that's pretty far" or "we're kind of busy", I was given the polite brush-off. Not a very good experience to help build a shared feeling of camaraderie. Needless to say, I believe this was the start of my no longer being in the DB club. After thirteen years of paying dues, no one from the club asked why I was no longer a member.

For those people that are unable to make it to the meets, the newsletter/publication is fairly important and can be their conection to the club. As to catering to the four cylinder cars, I would say they are a bit more slanted that way, but nothing serious. You had said that you have recently bought a six-cylinder and have gone back through the past issues of the DBC newsletter, what about the new club member that does not have those at his/her disposal? Something I have found that a lot of members of antique/vitage car clubs forget is that the new members have not been in the club for twenty plus years and don't have all of those back issues. Remedial primers can be a very good topic for everyone.

As far as the DBC newsletter is concerend, the editor of the DBC newsletter needs to have the technical coordinator write a standing column (only 6 columns a year) and have the other technical advisors (13 advisors at last count) write more articles, and have less pictures of stuff from eBay. From my thirteen years in the DBC to using this discussion forum, I have garnered more help and information from this forum than being in the club, and this is a good thing. I am very happy to see more people posting on this forum, and welcome even more.

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Let me throw my two cents into the discussion. I belong to the AACA, HCCA, MTCA, Model T International, Dodge Club and the Durant Club. I am a technical editor for the Durant club. I respond to questions on the AACA website, Dodge Forum, Model T forum, and Durant site. I do multiple sites because there are many common questions. It takes more time to write the article in the Durant Standard then answer questions on the forums and I get excellent ideas from the forum for my column. Writting a column does take a lot of time and creativity but to me it is worth it. Don't judge a club by its technical editors but the whole package. I think the Dodge techincal editors are top notch and will answer any question you have if you ask them. Have a nice evening.

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To answer your comment about back issues of the newsletter, they are available to anyone on a CD. The advertisement is in every newsletter.I do have an advantage of having a neighbor that has all the old issues on paper. JBed just released a CD with just six cylinder stuff on it too. It's excellant info. I too was at Travers City, it was my first but hopefully not my last Nat'l meet.

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Just stumbled onto this post. I'm not a tech editor, nor a member of a significant number of auto clubs. I was a member of the WPC many years ago, but dropped out when I changed employment directions. I have recently rejoined WPC, the Dodge Brothers, and the ForwardLook. Mainly in order to obtain some information and parts when I was working on my '38 Dodge. Now that I'm working on a '55 Dodge, I guess that it will be regaled to the WPC and Forwarlook websites/boards if and when i have more issues to inquire about. I do receive, read and appreciate the D/B news letter, but it seems to have a oneway theme. If it doesn't have spokes or artillery wheels, it don't get much print coverage.

I'm also told, that were I to show up at a D/B meet with my '38, I not only would be ostracized, but that I should also be concerned of the risk attendant with tar and feathers, as my '38 is not a "stock" restoration. Yeah, it has been modified! GASP!!! While the exterior has been retained "stock", the driveability has been significantly enhanced. The Summer operating environ has also been altered. Why? Because it's my car, I drove it as a daily driver for severaal years. It was in storage for several more years until I drug it out and began the project. Now it has the amenities of a current vehicle and is much more pleaant and pleasurable to drive in the Oklahoma Summers. Hopefully my son wil also be able to enjoy it after I take the final checkered flag.

To maintain the emphasis of this thread/post, I agree with Jan and John in that it seems that if it ain't '29 or earlier, it'll be a second class effort, sort of a tolerated step-child. Walt

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It's not so much the modernization of your vehicle ,it's the incongruity of getting into antique vehicles in the first place if you only want a modern driving car/truck. I enjoy my old vehicles for their eccentricities not for their perfection ,which God knows they lack in just about every way. The fun is going to shows or out for a coffee with the Mrs. and having people want to know all about the old days and what it's like to drive an old car. Over the years I've gotten several best of show trophies, been in several movies(the next one opens July 2/2008 'at a theatre near you')and been published as the marque photo in several books. But as you say it's each to his own. But I believe I've had several decades of fun that only leaving my vehicles in their original condition has brought. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good luck

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JohnVincent,

I'm sory to hear you are dissatisfied with the DBC. You neglected to mention the vintage of, and the specific problem with the brakes that have been ongoing for all these years. Have you acquired a copy of the '27 Mechanics Instruction Manual? This is nearly required reading for any one with 4-cyl to understand and keep his car operating at optimum performance.

Regarding a 'Standing Column' from the technical advisor, I'm not sure exactly what you think a bimonthly article should include, other than answering your specific brake problems. Over the years I have submitted articles on various subjects. Please understand the term 'Technical' does NOT include telling where you can find competent mechanics to work on the brakes for you because you cannot figure out how to adjust them yourself, or who to do body and fender work, or what kind of paint to use, or any of a dozen other questions I have attempted to answer personally.

I am a charter member of the DBC since '83 and also belong to several other car clubs and believe we at DBC do have one of the most informative, best newsletters available. I do not recall the 'ebay' thing but it was certainly a one time thing. As has been mentioned back issues of DBC News are available on CD for newbies and it is searchable by topics. What other club has offered that?

Rodger "Dodger" Hartley, technical advisor for the DBC

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Rodger,

Thank you for your post on this topic and subject. You touched on a topic that was brought up by one person, and one that I somewhat agree with, the DBC is slanted towards the four cylinder cars. You automatically assumed that my car was earlier, and four cylinder. My Dodge is a 1929 DA, so the 1927 Mechanics manual would be of litle help. And I did not say that the problem with the brakes had been going on for years, that was only your assumption.

As for your questioning of a standing column, why not answer those dozens of quetions that you have tried to "answer personally" in a technical Q&A in the newsletter, you know, share with the rest of the class as other people may be interested in the answer. In your post you brought up three topics that you could write articles about, brakes, body work and the difference in paints, that would be three columns, half of a year of issues. Throw in electrical, fuel pumps and carburetors and you have a whole year of columns. No one is suggesting that you cover every point and topic for every car in each column, but if someone from the club asks you a question, wouldn't that make a good topic for a column from the Technical Coordinator? Please understand that the term "Technical Coordinator" is a broad ranging title that encompasses a wide variety of topics and subjects. We are not looking for you to tell us what to do or whom to have do it, rather just share your information and expertise on the given subject, in a manner or medium that will address it to the largest possible membership, for the good of the order.

And as for your insinuation that I "cannot figure out how to adjust" the brakes myself, you should have asked a question as to what the problem was before making such a statment. The 20+ year member of the DBC that I bought the car from (in "perfectly restored and turn-key condition" a quote from the seller) should have learned how to do brake work properly. At what point in the 1927 Mechanics Instruction Manual does it say to file and grind down pennies and punch a hole in them (off center), that is smaller than the I.D. of the brake line, and than place them at the conecction between the flexible brake hose and the transition fitting? The problem was that the full pressure from the master cylinder was not being allowed to get to the wheel cylinders, accounting for the very soft and fading pedal. I wish someone could tell me what this guy was thinking when he did that.

As for the stuff from eBay, I pulled out the two copies of the DBC neswletter that were sitting on the top of my desk, completely random I assure you:

Vol.25 No.2 Feb/Mar 2007 see pages 6, 13, 20 and 21

Vol.25 No.4 Jun/Jul 2007 see pages 6,10 and 14

Could this column space not be better used (hint, hint)?

And as to your last question, look at the Model A Restores Club (MARC) and the Model T Ford Club of America (MTFCA). Both of these clubs offer that. I was not a charter member of the DBC, but I am a member of the AACA, BCA, PC (Packard), MARC, MTFCA, VMCCA and former member of the DBC, and I must respectfully disagree with you and your point on the DBC newsletter. Again I thank you for your time and for posting a response here, the more people that are reading this board the better.

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Wait a minute! YOU (Vincent) are complaining about the historically significant photos I picked up on eBay and published for the club members to see??? The Feb/Mar 07 Page 6 dealer's convention badge (when is the last time you saw one of them?) or the car with whitewall tires, rarely seen for that era but vindicating modern restorers who want whitewalls??

What may I ask is the difference in a nice series of photos of historic interest that was sent in by a member or one I picked off the internet? If the photos on Page 14 of Feb/Mar 07 were from eBay rather than having been sent by a member, should I have not published them?

I am so sorry that you were screwed in the purchase of your Dodge. I hate this almost as much as hot rodding. Years ago I bought a 1917 winter-top roadster that turned out to be an assemblage of junk parts; it never was a car. However, I did not quit the club in retribution. I recongized that, no matter how well the seller concealed the deed, buyer beware was my responsibility. Certainly not that of the club or the magazine. In fact, I should have used the club roster to contact some members in the area of the seller. Had I done this, I would have known that this car was a fake and the guy was scum.

My other references to eBay are to warn members of bad guys on that auction site. Like it or not, eBay has become more significant than Hershey to our hobby. But the dangers from flippers and people apprently like the one who sold you your DA are worse. Any help we can give members I regard as a major service.

Maybe people think the club magazine (it's not a newsletter)is produced by a whole staff of editors. I am flattered by that thought. But every two months I sit here alone at my computer with all the submissions that have been sent to me spread out on the table. From these (and a few photos I pick up--yes, some on eBay) (and a few articles I write myself as a result of my own technical advising for the Victory Six, the only DB I feel qualified to address) that's all that goes in the magazine.

You could have sent me your questions on your brakes for the Q&A department. You could have asked your DA tech advisor rather than wait for the coincidence of his publishing the article you need. You could have sent me a photo array of the screwups and copper pennies on your car. I'd publish them as a warning about how bad it can get. I did this years ago for a Victory touring car that was a costly restoration due to a previous incompetent "restorer."

As for asking an attendee to leave a national meet to help you, this would be asking an enormous favor of a fellow member. Meets are our vacations, for most of us the only time we spend away with our families. We do help many people who bring their cars to the meets (witness all the open hoods and crowds standing around in the photos.) But hey, to say "let's abandon the socializing and fun of the meet and come back to my garage and work on my car" is a huge request.

Sorry you find the magazine unhelpful. I am wondering how much regular help you get for your DA in the AACA and VMCCA magazines? I get these magazines and already know that answer--it's a rhetorical question.

You are the second member to have quit in a huff recently, due to lack of the articles you prefer in the magazine. Of course, I, the editor, am the last to know about your displeasure. Isn't that kinda the bass-ackwards way to address this problem? You do say there were a "host" of other reasons, so I suppose your loss of interest is caused by many other things.

And to wbower3 who wants to show up with his street rod at an event sponsored by a club whose purpose is to retain originality: what exactly do you expect? We find great personal value in the original car and are willing to spend much time and money to achieve this. Your interests are entirely 180 degrees opposite, spending much time and money to destroy the originality we so admire. The word "insulting" comes to mind. Like bringing a goat to a dog show.

John--Editor.

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John, I just got my computer back on-line, and was able to note your comment of 5/9/08 as regards my attitude and the fact I have violated the "originality" of my '38 Dodge. You may be assured that the last thing I would want to do would be to "Insult" any of the narrow-minded individuals who seek only to promote "originality" by showing up at a DB meet with my un-original '38.

As I plan to attendthe WPC Club meet in July, '08, I will be "modifying" my '38 further to make it more roadworthy than it is now. I will be adding current 12 volt headlight bulbs (xenon?) and changing the sweep arc on the ELECTRIC WINDSHIELD WIPERS and having the AIR CONDITIONER checked for it's freon supply. I will also top off the POWER STEERING resevoir and the POWER BRAKE fluid supply. I know that the AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION fluid is new, clean, and topped off. I'll take those precautions as my wife of 50 years will be accomanying me,and as we will be driving the "38 Dodge from Oklahoma City to Pennsylvania, and as she has comfort issues when traveling, I think it only reasonable that i perform pre-trip safety and comfort checks on the vehicle.

Unlike some pretentious people, who appear to consider form over function, I chose to modify rather than suffer from heat, inability to stay up with trafic, etc. But I don't cast aspersions upon those who worship at the alter of "orininality". So, look down your nose at me if you must, ostracize me if you deem it necessary, but I'll be taking my GOAT to the WPC Club meet, and with some modicum of comfort while doing so. As an added plus, I will also be keeping travel-related-complaints to a minimum. If it turns out to be a dog and pony show, so be it! (In the unlikely event someone feels aneed to respond other than publicly to this post I may be reached at: Walter Bower III, email: wbower3@yahoo.com; snail mail at: Bower & Bower, Attorneys,. 3721 N. Classen Blvd., Oklahoma City, OK 73118: Tele: 405-528-0047)

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<span style="color: #FF0000"> I have a 28, 36 and 37, - Hemi, 383(long rams), Hemi.

My take on this is this way, I have resurected three vehicles that were going to junk if someone hadnt come along to save them. None had running gear so in an effort to make running toys I had to use my imagination.

I dont think I could ever butcher an up and running vehicle into a hot rod as I can appreciate the originality of the hobby as well.

I have owned several orginal cars but I couldnt tell anyone "yea, I built this".

As for the hot rods, they take a little more ingenuity than a car that you could build out of a manual.

I say if you are having fun then you are doing it right....

CHEERS,, JACK M</span>

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Danged. It seemed like such a simple string of logic.

Please follow along this outline of what Bowers says:

1. Club of people who are dedicated to original cars.

2. Lawyer trashes a surviving American antique original car.

3. Lawyer's car no longer fits the criteria of the club.

4. Lawyer calls club narrow minded.

(next? 5. Lawyer sues club for discriminating against street rods)

Where have I heard this sort of illogic before?

Politics? ACLU?

Reminds me of the guy who replaced the guts out of the 1890s Grammophone with an iPod (because he was too tired to crank up the spring motor) and then wondered why the Phonograph Society made fun of his show entry.

Esq. Bowers may be interested in the retired couple who drove their all-stock 1915 Dodge Brothers touring car from California to our national meet in Massachusetts several years ago. (Their name, by the coincidental way, is "Lawyer")

May I ask you-- if you had driven your formerly-1938 Dodge to that same meet with your air conditioning and other modern comforts, what would you have had in common with the retired couple? What exactly would you talk about? In thinking about those questions I submit that you are the narrow minded in this discussion--unable to see how a group of people can hold to a dedication to historic accuracy to the poimt of sacrificing some perceived personal comfort. I submit that the couple in their 1915 had an experience of a lifetime that would surpass any trip you could imagine wrapped in the comforts of your Dodge-like hot rod.

In fact, many of us can't imagine why, every time you drive your creation, you aren't pained with the thought that you have forever destroyed a piece of American history for your own selfish comfort and, no doubt, ego. And you are displaying this fact to anyone who cares to look.

Obviously you are pained by the thought that there is a club of people, most of whom who do not appreciate what damage you have done. People who would prefer you had picked up some Viagara instead of taking it out on that poor old car.

Jack M. Yes there are cases where the cost to restore the remains of some vehicle are prohibitive and rodding could be an alternative. You are not the problem. It is the guys who trash totally restorable, or restored, and sometimes show winning, vehicles. These unfortunately are the vast majority. But your situation notwithstanding, our club is dedicated to originality. We talk about flat head engines and manual transmissions, and researching original color formulas. What possible commonality will you find in our club or website? There are street-rod clubs that will enjoy your work and share some interests with you.

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<span style="color: #FF0000">Well said, You didnt hear me bashing anybody on here. I probably spend to much time on the computer and this site is on my list.

I would never show up to a DB meet in one of these cars that I mentioned. I build these toys to enjoy myself and have something to leave my kids, Hell, I dont even go to the rod runs.

I expect that most would agree that the Mopar guys are a little wierd.

ENJOY,,,,</span>

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JB editor of DBC you have the right stuff. Your job is well done even in the face of those who can stand it no other way than their own. I applaud your patience, inner strength and dedication to the alter of originality which is clearly spelled out in the statment of purpose for the DBC.

Jim Cook

1933 DP technical advisor

DBC

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Love these guys who think they are "improving" an old car by installing Camaro engine, Camaro transmission, Camaro suspension, Camaro rear axle, Camaro seats, Camaro wheels, Camaro windshield wipers, Camaro air conditioning and painting the car Camaro red.

If you want a Camaro why not just buy a Camaro?

I can also tell you that the "new" parts you are pridefully installing and "new" paint colors and upholstery will be obsolete junk in 10 or 20 years.

At that time your car will be obsolete while a properly restored car will still be going strong.

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I live nearr Midland MI. I have a 24 DodgeBrothers, and have rebuilt my brakes. If you can give me a specific problem, I would be happy to help. I can comeby sometime, if you wish, the next time I am headed north. Frankly, it is puzzling to me since I have had more help in the DB club than any other I have belonged to.

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JB-ed,

Let me also state that I thoroughly look forward to receiving the DB magazine and I truly appreciate all your hard work that must go into this publication.

I could go on ad nauseam but suffice it for me to say Thank You -- appreciate all your hard work --- keep it up !!!

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