CAR VALUES

April 2, 2008

I thought I would start a new discussion on values, as that seems to be a very opinionated subject. I am dying for a 3rd classic, prefer a driver I can tinker with and fix up (while driving) In another post I saw a guy say use the "GOLD BOOK" I have looked at many cars on there vs what is selling on E-bay and in Hemmings and the Website always comes up way short of what people are asking or paying. AM I MISSING SOMETHING ???

April 2, 2008

I thought I would start a new discussion on values, as that seems to be a very opinionated subject. I am dying for a 3rd classic, prefer a driver I can tinker with and fix up (while driving) In another post I saw a guy say use the "GOLD BOOK" I have looked at many cars on there vs what is selling on E-bay and in Hemmings and the Website always comes up way short of what people are asking or paying. AM I MISSING SOMETHING ???

April 2, 2008

Ebay is about as true a reflection of car values as "Star Trek" is to space travel.

People's asking prices on Ebay are usually way over value. The bought a car for $8k, put $50k into it and now want $75 so they get their money back and a little something for their troubles. Problem is the car is worth $40k.

Add to that the fact that Ebay is a lowballers paradise in general, and that skews the perception even more.

If you want a 3rd car, post what your looking for on forums like this and find a similar person to you selling one. There are a lot of deluded people out there.

April 2, 2008

Ebay is about as true a reflection of car values as "Star Trek" is to space travel.

People's asking prices on Ebay are usually way over value. The bought a car for $8k, put $50k into it and now want $75 so they get their money back and a little something for their troubles. Problem is the car is worth $40k.

Add to that the fact that Ebay is a lowballers paradise in general, and that skews the perception even more.

If you want a 3rd car, post what your looking for on forums like this and find a similar person to you selling one. There are a lot of deluded people out there.

April 2, 2008

Hi as I see it when you buy a fixer most likely a little later you will find a parts car that is better ?? Any thing special you are looking for as this board is a good pair of eyes and ears.Ebay is a good thing to see value if they sell other wise it is just not close as most of the bids are fake .?? Mike

April 2, 2008

Hi as I see it when you buy a fixer most likely a little later you will find a parts car that is better ?? Any thing special you are looking for as this board is a good pair of eyes and ears.Ebay is a good thing to see value if they sell other wise it is just not close as most of the bids are fake .?? Mike

charlier · April 2, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnpaul Ragusa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ebay is about as true a reflection of car values as "Star Trek" is to space travel.

People's asking prices on Ebay are usually way over value. The bought a car for $8k, put $50k into it and now want $75 so they get their money back and a little something for their troubles. Problem is the car is worth $40k. </div></div>

hahahaha I have to start quoteing you on your Ebay/Star Trek analogy.

I have SO MANY examples of my EBay experiences that prove what you said I could write a book.

Everything from knowingly mis-representing cars and part to sellers that use shill bidders to bump up the price on their items.

"Buyer Beware" applies to Ebay just like any other purchase one makes.

charlier · April 2, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnpaul Ragusa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ebay is about as true a reflection of car values as "Star Trek" is to space travel.

People's asking prices on Ebay are usually way over value. The bought a car for $8k, put $50k into it and now want $75 so they get their money back and a little something for their troubles. Problem is the car is worth $40k. </div></div>

hahahaha I have to start quoteing you on your Ebay/Star Trek analogy.

I have SO MANY examples of my EBay experiences that prove what you said I could write a book.

Everything from knowingly mis-representing cars and part to sellers that use shill bidders to bump up the price on their items.

"Buyer Beware" applies to Ebay just like any other purchase one makes.

April 2, 2008

Love your cars johnpaul, I only hope I am so lucky some day. I understand the fake part of E-bay--I lost a modern convertible that was bought out from under me by the seller, but right now I am watching 2 cars--a 54 Patrician and a 55 Packard 400. Both have over 17 bids and the Patrician is 2k or so over the value on Gold Book. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception---so where is our hobby as far as values go?

April 2, 2008

Love your cars johnpaul, I only hope I am so lucky some day. I understand the fake part of E-bay--I lost a modern convertible that was bought out from under me by the seller, but right now I am watching 2 cars--a 54 Patrician and a 55 Packard 400. Both have over 17 bids and the Patrician is 2k or so over the value on Gold Book. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception---so where is our hobby as far as values go?

April 2, 2008

I wonder of all the bids who is interested , did you want one of them if so be sure to ask questions different areas of the country RICHMOND, VA, and Branson, Missouri

these ??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280212547369

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1955-Pack...tem270224075890

April 2, 2008

I wonder of all the bids who is interested , did you want one of them if so be sure to ask questions different areas of the country RICHMOND, VA, and Branson, Missouri

these ??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280212547369

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1955-Pack...tem270224075890

April 2, 2008

Yeah thats them, the Branson one is probally 30k reserve--can only justify from what I see 15k. The other is 2k high already. Thats what I am trying to get at---how does a rookie arrive at a fair value there seems to be so much disparity.

April 2, 2008

Yeah thats them, the Branson one is probally 30k reserve--can only justify from what I see 15k. The other is 2k high already. Thats what I am trying to get at---how does a rookie arrive at a fair value there seems to be so much disparity.

Dandy Dave · April 2, 2008

The first item that I ever sold on ebay was a 1941 packard 4 door straight 8 cylinder. It ran and drove but the body did have issues. The inside trunk was like a screen window but the floors were fairly solid. The car brought around $4,000 with no reseve which I was happy with. The winning bidder did not pay but the under bidder called me and said he really wanted the car. After the non paying bidder's time was up, I offered a second chance to the under bidder and he took it. Needless to say, the non paying winning bidder did leave a bad taste in my mouth for a first time ever eBay sale item. The real kicker was that bidder #2 was beat out by (.01), yes, that was one lousy cent. Bidder number 2 turned out to be a very nice couple and I am glad they got the car. Dave!

Dandy Dave · April 2, 2008

The first item that I ever sold on ebay was a 1941 packard 4 door straight 8 cylinder. It ran and drove but the body did have issues. The inside trunk was like a screen window but the floors were fairly solid. The car brought around $4,000 with no reseve which I was happy with. The winning bidder did not pay but the under bidder called me and said he really wanted the car. After the non paying bidder's time was up, I offered a second chance to the under bidder and he took it. Needless to say, the non paying winning bidder did leave a bad taste in my mouth for a first time ever eBay sale item. The real kicker was that bidder #2 was beat out by (.01), yes, that was one lousy cent. Bidder number 2 turned out to be a very nice couple and I am glad they got the car. Dave!

Jim Bollman · April 2, 2008

I have bought two trucks off eBay sight on seen.

One was about $1000 over the price I would have offered if I had seen it before I got it home and saw the real condition. I later sold some extra parts that came with it for $600 so I figure I didn't do to bad.

The other had 6 bad tires even thought it was advertised as NYS inspected. I figure he didn't say they were new, so I probably over paid about $500 on that one.

I would buy another off eBay if I find the right deal. I figure that the first one was still less than airfare to go look and the second one I didn't notice the cords showing on the tires till my NYS inspection, so even if I had looked at it I would have missed the tires (it did have a valid NYS inspection, guess he has a more lenient inspector than me). I have over paid by more than that on cars I have seen.

Jim Bollman · April 2, 2008

I have bought two trucks off eBay sight on seen.

One was about $1000 over the price I would have offered if I had seen it before I got it home and saw the real condition. I later sold some extra parts that came with it for $600 so I figure I didn't do to bad.

The other had 6 bad tires even thought it was advertised as NYS inspected. I figure he didn't say they were new, so I probably over paid about $500 on that one.

I would buy another off eBay if I find the right deal. I figure that the first one was still less than airfare to go look and the second one I didn't notice the cords showing on the tires till my NYS inspection, so even if I had looked at it I would have missed the tires (it did have a valid NYS inspection, guess he has a more lenient inspector than me). I have over paid by more than that on cars I have seen.

Chacheska · April 3, 2008

Cardinal, no one has actually answered your question regarding how to determine value being a novice. My suggestion is to look at past auctions on eBay, auction results from the bigger auction companies, Old Cars Price Guide, past Packard publications (since you seem to be focused on Packards), joining one or two of the Packard clubs and calling members who own the cars you're interested in. Ask them what they paid for their cars or what they think a particular car you're interested in is worth based on it's condition. I think you'll get the most honest answers by asking other people who own the cars you want to buy. They won't have any vested interest in lying to you because they're won't be trying to sell you something. You have to make the effort to do the research into the not-too-distant past sales prices. Be patient and collect data.

Chacheska · April 3, 2008

Cardinal, no one has actually answered your question regarding how to determine value being a novice. My suggestion is to look at past auctions on eBay, auction results from the bigger auction companies, Old Cars Price Guide, past Packard publications (since you seem to be focused on Packards), joining one or two of the Packard clubs and calling members who own the cars you're interested in. Ask them what they paid for their cars or what they think a particular car you're interested in is worth based on it's condition. I think you'll get the most honest answers by asking other people who own the cars you want to buy. They won't have any vested interest in lying to you because they're won't be trying to sell you something. You have to make the effort to do the research into the not-too-distant past sales prices. Be patient and collect data.

TexRiv_63 · April 3, 2008

Cardinal,

Going back to your starting post I have had the same questions. I agree that Mannheim Gold Book prices seem low across the board but they are quoted a lot on these forums. Does anyone know exactly how they determine their values and whether or not they do reflect reality in the matketplace?

TexRiv_63 · April 3, 2008

Cardinal,

Going back to your starting post I have had the same questions. I agree that Mannheim Gold Book prices seem low across the board but they are quoted a lot on these forums. Does anyone know exactly how they determine their values and whether or not they do reflect reality in the matketplace?

April 3, 2008

Did not know of Old car price guide, will search the web. Not really set on Packards but seem to gravitate to the makes and models that you dont see at every car show (no offense intended) I figure the odd cars will hold value better---maybe I am wrong. Thanks for the tips.

April 3, 2008

Did not know of Old car price guide, will search the web. Not really set on Packards but seem to gravitate to the makes and models that you dont see at every car show (no offense intended) I figure the odd cars will hold value better---maybe I am wrong. Thanks for the tips.

April 3, 2008

One way to determine the value of a specialty car is to have it appraised. To merely get the range of possible prices wheter buying or selling, the various online sites and personal recomendations can get you "in the ballpark". If you are considering a specific vehicle or want to insure your present collector car for actual replacement value an appraisal will certianly help.

I am currently building a practice providing professional valuations for all types of collector in the Central CA. Coast area.

April 3, 2008

One way to determine the value of a specialty car is to have it appraised. To merely get the range of possible prices wheter buying or selling, the various online sites and personal recomendations can get you "in the ballpark". If you are considering a specific vehicle or want to insure your present collector car for actual replacement value an appraisal will certianly help.

I am currently building a practice providing professional valuations for all types of collector in the Central CA. Coast area.

April 3, 2008

Cardinal, Chacheska's advice is probably the best. If you're interested in Packards, join the Packard Club and, if one exists, a local Packard chapter. People in these clubs are more than friendly and ready to give good advice. In fact, you will occasionally run into the problem I sometinmes have where its tough to get off the phone! Also, many times cars are advertised through these organizations and between those advertisements and asking questions of club members you should be OK. Thats the way I did it and my 26 Packard is a lot of fun to drive.

April 3, 2008

Cardinal, Chacheska's advice is probably the best. If you're interested in Packards, join the Packard Club and, if one exists, a local Packard chapter. People in these clubs are more than friendly and ready to give good advice. In fact, you will occasionally run into the problem I sometinmes have where its tough to get off the phone! Also, many times cars are advertised through these organizations and between those advertisements and asking questions of club members you should be OK. Thats the way I did it and my 26 Packard is a lot of fun to drive.

April 3, 2008

Yes, I printed off the Packard form just now. This forum is great that way---just scroll down for the next step in an adventure !! Appraisals are great, but on a 8-15k car its not feasable.

April 3, 2008

Yes, I printed off the Packard form just now. This forum is great that way---just scroll down for the next step in an adventure !! Appraisals are great, but on a 8-15k car its not feasable.

Restorer32 · April 3, 2008

Old Cars Price Guide says I can buy a 1932 Packard 902 Conv in #5 condition for $13200. Anyone have one they are willing to sell for that price? How about a Conv Victoria for $15360? I'll take 2 of those. How about a '33 Caddy V16 Dual Cowl Phaeton for $30480? I'd borrow money to buy that one. Maybe you would prefer the '55 Jaguar Conv for $7560? For those with a smaller budget why not the '31 Model A Roadster for $3240? These price guides are pretty much all the same. They start with a few real prices from auctions etc. and extrapolate the rest. Very little relationship to what cars actually sell for, especially on the lower end of the condition scale.

Restorer32 · April 3, 2008

Old Cars Price Guide says I can buy a 1932 Packard 902 Conv in #5 condition for $13200. Anyone have one they are willing to sell for that price? How about a Conv Victoria for $15360? I'll take 2 of those. How about a '33 Caddy V16 Dual Cowl Phaeton for $30480? I'd borrow money to buy that one. Maybe you would prefer the '55 Jaguar Conv for $7560? For those with a smaller budget why not the '31 Model A Roadster for $3240? These price guides are pretty much all the same. They start with a few real prices from auctions etc. and extrapolate the rest. Very little relationship to what cars actually sell for, especially on the lower end of the condition scale.

Twitch · April 3, 2008

Certainly no one is going to find a Duesey in a garage for $1,000 but there are tens of thousands of reasobnably priced vintage cars. I mean under $15,000 and often under $10,000. Everybody doesn't desire a Pierce Arrow or Stutz. Even if they were free the upkeep, insurance and hesitation for many to drive them would outweigh any fun factor.

There are Nashes, Hudsons, Studebakers, Buicks, Oldsmobiles, postwar Packards, Dodges and Plymouths from the late 30s-50s if you want something different the the ubiquitous Ford or Chevy.

In the 60s there are even more selections only at generally lower prices if you don't dream of muscle cars. 60s Camaros and Mustangs can be found that under $15,000. The may be "averge" condition but they'll give a lot of enjoyment for the dollar.

From 1958-1969 Fords and Chevies are valued less than 10 grand if you stay away from convertibles and 2-door hardtops. Some are well under 10 Gs. Same goes for Dodges,Pymouths and even Chryslers. Many, models of Olds, Pontiacs, and Buicks are down there. AMCs are at near givaway prices across the board if you want something different.

And most of these cars will be about as rare as seeing a Duesenberg at your local crusie in or show at the park. Most of the big boats don't fit in the category of "sought after" so a 66 Olds 98 can lord over the zillion Fords and Chevies that are.

I encourage people that attend these functions to start looking and become educated if they express any curious desire of owning a vintage vehicle. I've found lot of guys at retirement age that definitely are goin to need something to do besdies listen to the wife till they die. They have a few bucks and most say "I always wanted one."

They may need to recalibrate from 32 LaSalle to a 65 Thunderbird HT but they'll have a car at least.

And a lot of these cars can and should be purchased from local sources and even Ebay in certain instances instead of from "collector" publications and sites who will have the prices jacked up. Believe me there are tons of people who know nothing of NADA Gold Book or any other evaluation source for aged autos.

Twitch · April 3, 2008