Barry Wolk Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 1-27-2008 Mystery fluffVery strange. I pulled down the headliner backer to find a pile of what appears to be charred insulation.Splitting it open it appeared to be charred only on the top.Looking up at the underside of the roof it is evident that there was some kind of flames or smoldering that came from the charred insulation. If you look all around the char you'll see remnants of the insulation that ended up in a small pile.The pile appears to be the work of a rodent but there were no droppings and no sign of urine stains typical of this type of discovery. Two things baffle me. One is the pile itself and the other is the apparent near-fire that took place.This limo was last used as a commercial taxi in Las Vegas. It had a full padded vinyl top that was intact over this area. I originally thought that heat from the Vegas sun cause spontaneous combustion but there was dry plywood used as supports and the backer was flammable inexpensive paneling and they showed no signs of heat.I thought that there was a possibility that this could have been a biological reaction like mold. Decay has been known to cause a bit of heat, but spontaneous combustionWhat could have cause this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Was there any sign of welding or lead work on the outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It is an alien life form! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was there any sign of welding or lead work on the outside? </div></div>None. No grinding, no welding. No lights, no wiring no ignition source at all. Looks like spontaneous combustion that was smothered by a lack of oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 That's scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisSummers Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It's a HOT rod Lincoln!I'll go away now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It is a clear case of the rodent smoking in bed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It looks like the outside was charred by a high heat source but did not get hot enough to burn by itself.It would not go out from lack of oxygen. I have set enough cars on fire while welding the bodies to know that.The only thing I can think of is that it was parked somewhere so that the sunlight concentrated on that one spot, possibly focused by a mirrored surface nearby or some weird magnifying glass effect thru the garage windows.Not much of a theory but it's all I can come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AntarcticDave Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Could be Rusty. A co-worker recently had a house fire. Sunlight coming in his daughter's window was focused by a snow globe and set a stuffed bear on fire, which then ignited the curtains, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMPARTSMAN Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Barry,When I worked out west at a dealership one of our porters left a set of "dog dishes" on the vinyl seat of a GMC pickup.It was a bare bones truck with clear glass. Well, in the summer heat of New Mexico, the hub caps got hot enough to melt down through the seat trim and burn down into the foam seat cushion. We were lucky that it extinguished itself and didn't go up completely, but it had a different new car smell to it after that.P.S., saw you driving your Lincoln Mark convertible last summer one Sunday afternoon heading up Milford Road (to Baker's?). Good looking car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bkazmer Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hot hubcaps is not the reason, but automotive upholstery is required to be flame retarded to a certain level by federal regulation. The idea is that a dropped cigarette will not cause the seat to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZondaC12 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisSummers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a HOT rod Lincoln!I'll go away now... </div></div>BWAHAHAAHA oh man. Thanks for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GMPARTSMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barry,When I worked out west at a dealership one of our porters left a set of "dog dishes" on the vinyl seat of a GMC pickup.It was a bare bones truck with clear glass. Well, in the summer heat of New Mexico, the hub caps got hot enough to melt down through the seat trim and burn down into the foam seat cushion. We were lucky that it extinguished itself and didn't go up completely, but it had a different new car smell to it after that.P.S., saw you driving your Lincoln Mark convertible last summer one Sunday afternoon heading up Milford Road (to Baker's?). Good looking car. </div></div>That must have been me. We hang out at Baker's about 10 Sundays each summer. Great car gathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I was warned by a panel beater friend that I should never allow the fish oil which protects enclosed body areas against rust to dry out on rags. I have never had the idle time to experiment, and I dont know the chemistry involved. My impreesion was clearly that Les was speaking from personal experience. It might be a myth, or it might be a clue. Regards, Ivan Saxton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aussie610 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Ivan,Fish oil is like danish oil (for you woodworkers out there). If you leave the rags balled up they <span style="font-weight: bold">CAN</span> due to a chemical reaction create enough heat in the rag to spontaneously ignite.Never been bored enough to do it, but I think there is a youtube video of it happening (will have to do a search) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 My guess would be that it is more likely to ignite if the fibre is cellulose type such as cotton, Neil. Plastics will burn, but most are fairly inert chemically; and you have to provide the heat of naked flame to burn them. Mineral fibres are mostly fairly resistant to fire. (I have some fibreglass matting here from a friend, which is excellent protection for wiring or trim etc, if you have to, say do a weld repair on a rust spot without stripping everything. I can run an oxy-acetylene flame on top of a piece with my hand underneath. That is dry, not even soaked with water. Very handy if you have to work on a very modern used car.)I guess Barry has not defined what the fibre was.Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 It feels like some form of natural fiber, like cotton. You can see the remnants of it stuck to the underside of the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Probably just as well your car would post-date the use of nitrocellulose laquer, Barry. Guncotton is made from nitric acid and cellulose, and I understand the laquer we used to use, and the warpaint ladies use on their fingernails, is guncotton dissolved in a suitable solvent, with pigments added. If guncotton is unstable, we can be thankful it does not thus affect people who use it. I guess the message is that something useful and innoccuous can become very different through chemical reaction with other substances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 It looks like cotton batting, which can certainly auto-ignite. This is particularly true if there is some residual oil in the cotton. Bacteria can colonize this, and through their metabolism generate quite a lot of heat. Cotton also traps oxygen, and so it can smolder for quite some time.The fire temp for cotton is around 210 degrees celcius, but the fire won't continue. The autoignition temp is about 407 degrees C, but drops to 120 if the cotton is oily.So, if the installer had greasy hands...Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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