63 Brakes

[steelman]

I am having an issue with the brakes on my 63.

First a little history. Bought this car in July. Nice original 63 in need of a tune up, exhaust and paint. 2 of those three are taken care of now. Car is a 118,000 mile unrestored, unmolested, fairly high option car. #12685 of 40000 delivered Feb. 23, 1963 to the Texas panhandle town of Stinnett. Because Jim cares, it has the ribbed dash and the spare on the trunk floor. Unusual options are aluminum wheel covers, A/C, vacuum trunk release, and custom interior.

Now the problem. Had the car running, driving and stopping great. Put it up in the air to do a check underneath, just to check bushings, ball joints, and tie rods, just to be sure nothing needed immediate attention. Set it back on the ground and had almost no brakes. Just that quick. Very low pedal, not returning with only about one inch of travel. Still would stop, just not as very well.

To this point I have had the booster rebuilt, new master cylinder, new soft lines, checked for proper vacuum, and checked all the wheel cylinders. I have bled all the lines, in the proper order, until I have new fluid at all four points. But I still have the same issue. This is my first Riviera and first Buick for that matter. Is there something here this old Bowtie guy has missed? I have been reading this forum for a few months and you guys seem to have all the correct answers. I know I have a lot to learn about these cars, and you have taught me a lot already. Many thanks in advance.

[Jim Cannon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am having an issue with the brakes on my 63.

First a little history. Bought this car in July. Nice original 63 in need of a tune up, exhaust and paint. 2 of those three are taken care of now. Car is a 118,000 mile unrestored, unmolested, fairly high option car. #12685 of 40000 delivered Feb. 23, 1963 to the Texas panhandle town of Stinnett. Because Jim cares, it has the ribbed dash and the spare on the trunk floor. Unusual options are aluminum wheel covers, A/C, vacuum trunk release, and custom interior.

</div></div>

Thanks for the info!!! Sounds like a nice car. What is the date code in the upper left corner of the data plate?

Sounds like bad vacuum booster to me. Who rebuilt it for you?

[petelempert]

I agree with Jim. I assume that if it runs OK you've got enough vacuum...15-18 I think. Then, I'd check the vacuum lines to the intake and the vacuum tank on the drivers side inner fender. If not, it probably is a bum booster. Good luck. PRL

[steelman]

Code is 12B. Second week of Dec. 62 if I read this right.

Glad to see you agree that the booster is still the issue. Had it rebuilt by City Brake and Clutch in OKC, where the car is. I have returned the booster both on and off the car to him and he says the booster is fine. Always had good luck at this place before, so I did trust him.

I have tried before and since to buy a rebuilt unit both on-line and at the auto supply, all without success. Both Wagner and Borg Warner books at O'Reilly and Auto Zone don't even show a Riviera for '63. Starts with Rivieras in '64, and they have a different booster. Two different on-line stores told me they had a booster in stock, but had to refund my money when they were not in stock after all.

Thanks again for confirming my suspicions. I was afraid there was some little knob you had to push before you could bleed the brakes that I didn't know about. Thanks again.

Steve Owens

Steelman

'63 Riviera.

[Jim Cannon]

Thanks, Steve! Yes, that's a December 1962 body build date.

If the booster is good (a big if) then I would suspect vacuum going to it.

There is a check valve at the end of the steel line coming off of the intake manifold. Make sure it is sealing by removing rubber hose from steel line and draw a vacuum on that inlet. It should hold a vacuum.

Also see if you or your booster shop can put a vacuum pump and a gauge on the vacuum hose going into the booster (takes the engine out of the picture for a minute) and see if you can pull the vacuum down with no pressure applied to the brake pedal. If you can, go step on the brake and see what it feels like. The brake shop can also put a pressure gauge on the brake line to see what kind of pressure you are generating when you press on the pedal.

The '63 booster must have a vacuum storage can attached to it. I hope you have one. If not, let me know and I will send a photo of what it should look like.

Check your vacuum hoses for good connections (use hose clamps on them all) and make sure none of the vacuum hoses are collapsing. Feel all around them with your fingers and under where you can not see to check for a split hose.

The '63 booster is a one year only item for the Riv and a bit different from other years. But if your rebuilder knows what he is doing, it should work out OK. Have they rebuilt a '63 Riv booster before?

If you really want to do so, you can put on a matching set of booster and master cylinder from a later year. It will bolt right up but you will need to fabricate a new line down to the distribution block, and add a T-fitting for the brake light switch.

You may want to jump to a '67 Riviera booster/master cylinder and convert the car to dual master cylinder while you are at it. This year booster does not need the vacuum storage can, but you can use it if you want to -- no harm.

Keep us informed of progress.

[TexRiv_63]

Steve,

One other thing to check is the seal around the master cylinder where it fits into the booster. I can tell you from personal experience if it is missing or leaking it will cause the problem you describe. If the seal is there but does not fit tightly try some silicone grease.