440 IN A 50 DELUXE!

[ZAZZER]

OKAY GUYS HERES WHAT I GOT... I JUST BOUGHT A 1950 DESOTO DELUXE AND I WANT TO PUT IN A 1976 MOPAR 440 BIG BLOCK AND TRANS THAT I AM REBUILDING INTO IT. CAN I MAKE IT WORK? WILL IT FIT? WHAT KIND OF MODIFICATIONS WILL HAVE TO BE DONE? WHAT WILL HAVE TO BE DONE TO THE SUSPENSION TO HOLD THE WEIGHT?

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT THANKS!

ZAC

[Rusty_OToole]

I seriously doubt you can make it work. To be even half way drivable you would have to gut that car like a trout and install a complete front suspension and rear axle and suspension in addition to the engine and trans.

Even if you got it running it would be a real pain in the ass to drive plus a gas hog to boot.

I predict that even if you spend $50,000 and the next 2 years which is what it will take to do it properly, when you are done you will put the car up for sale immediatly.

Now if you want a nice driving 50 DeSoto we can help you. Or, if you want to put that 440 into a car that was made for it such as a Dodge or Plymouth muscle car from the 60s or 70s we can help with that too.

[Guest Bob Call]

Zazzer

What a great idea! I once had a '50 DeSoto which was great except for that horrible FluidDrive. When the clutch finally wore out, the car went to the salvage yard.

For inspriation, google and check out the Ramchargers and their "High & Mighty" 49 Plymouth business coupe with a 392 hemi.

A 440 in your DeS can be done but it will be a major project. You know the '52-53 DeS's had an optional hemi V8. 54 and later were all V8's. I'm not sure if there was a chassis change from the 49-51 to the 52 to accomodate the V8. The DeS hemi was smaller than the 440. A small block 340/360 may be a better fit. I would go for a front frame clip from a late model car for better suspension and disc brakes. A Chrysler product frame donor would be best as the late V8 would be a bolt in. Maybe best, would be a complete late model rolling chassis swap that your 440 would be a bolt in. Surely with all of the various 60's, 70's and 80's Chrysler products that used V8's there is one that had a wheelbase within an inch or two of the '50 DeS.

Good luck. Keep us posted if you proceed with this project.

Bob

[Rusty_OToole]

No V8 in 1950 sorry. They were designed for a 6 and the steering box is in the road of a V8 swap. Furthermore the engine compartment is rather short and the rad is fitted tight to the motor.

So, to put in something the size of a 440 the complete front suspension and steering mechanism has to go. Also, you have to cut out the firewall and build in a big recess.

So, once you replace the front clip and do major mods to the body the fun begins.

You have to replace the transmission and rear axle as well.

Once you get done replacing the front clip, engine, transmission, rear axle, and radiator then you can work out the "minor details" like wiring, 12 volt conversion, heater, and brakes.

O ya brakes, since you put on new disc brakes and new rear brakes you need to junk the old under floor brake cylinder and work out a new setup with a dual master cylinder.

When you get all done what you will have in essence is a badly engineered 70s car with a 50s body.

Nose heavy, over powered, noisy, a pain in the ass to drive and a major gas hog.

At this point you can get into a restoration of the body,interior etc or do like most guys and put it up for sale "almost finished just needs a little work" ha ha.

[Rusty_OToole]

A 318 will go in a lot easier and with a little finageling I believe will work with the stock suspension and engine compartment.

Easiest of all is the flathead six, it can be rebuilt quite cheaply and they can be hopped up.

I know 120 HP doesn't seem like much but you have to remember those engines were not made for horsepower, they were made for torque at low to medium speeds. The result is they keep up with traffic just fine but run out of puff around 70 MPH with an all out top speed of 85 or 90. In other words around town they aren't bad but the top end is pathetic.

Personally I would either keep the flathead 6 or if I was not satisfied with that, sell the car and buy something a little newer that came with a V8.

By the way I am putting my money where my mouth is. I have a 51 DeSoto coupe and I'm in the process of getting a rebuilt flathead 6 with a supercharger.

[Gary_N]

Rusty:

What supercharger are you going to use? Have you heard of Uncommon Engineering? They do all manner of engine builds like turbo straight 8's, etc. VERY expensive, but some cool stuff.

Gary

[Chryslerati]

When I was in High School (1966) one of my neighbors cut down a Chrysler frame with a Long Ram V8 and put it under a 1950 Dodge coupe. I rode in it a couple of times, it was pretty cool with a push button tranny on the floor.

Anything can be done if you try hard enough.

[Rusty_OToole]

For years I have had the theory that a flathead engine should respond well to a supercharger. At first I wanted to use a turbo but then I got onto the McCulloch supercharger. They were made by the McCulloch chain saw people starting in 1953.

The McCulloch VS57 was available as a bolt on accessory for most cars, and was also offered as factory equipment on the 1954-55 Kaiser, 1957 Thunderbird, and 1957 up Studebakers.

So it would be a contemporary accessory appropriate to nearly any American car from the 50s.

I now have 3 VS57's on hand. I mean to put one on a flathead 6 Chrysler engine.

So far as I know this has never been done. Even back in the heyday of the McCulloch blower. Possibly because the Chrysler and DeSoto hemi V8's were already on the market when the VS57 came out.

The engine is to be built by a long time speed shop owner and hot rodder named Louis Thorndike.

I have a Chrysler 225 industrial engine, and crankshaft and rods out of a 265 cu in industrial engine.

This should give me enough parts to build up a heavy duty 265 engine.

I also have a Spitfire head off a Chrysler car. I don't think it does anything but it looks cool.

Have been debating whether to buy a reground cam. I mean to talk to John Erb the McCulloch expert first.

If everything works out I should have a high torque, smooth quiet engine with about 170 HP.

I could have the same power (and a better transmission) just by swapping in a stock 318 and matching Torqueflite but where would be the fun in that?

[Rusty_OToole]

By the way I have a friend with several 1954 Packard straight eights. He is intrigued with the McCulloch too and is tossing around the idea of putting one on his Packard.

The Packard company actually experimented with the McCulloch in 1953 or 54. They built several test cars with them, and the Packard Panther show cars featured McCulloch blown straight eights.

But their new V8 debuted in 1955 making the blower superfluous. So they never did offer a blown production car, until the 1957 "Packardbakers" with blown Studey 289s.

Still, a blown Packard straight eight might make an interesting ride.

[Gary_N]

Here's a couple of pics of a 4 carb and blown Hudson flathead.

Gary

[Gary_N]

If my '48 was not a basket case, I might have considered a restoration. But since I have to cut it all part, I'm planning on modifying him. I have a 291 De Soto HEMI coming. Maybe I can squeeze that one in. Really would like to add a push button trans. I think that would be very cool.

Gary

[Guest Hinckley]

Okay, I know little about these cars other than through association. I hafve a good friend in California who owns a 50 Desoto coupe and is obsessed with anything Mopar pre 1970. His car is stock including six volt and fluid drive with but three exceptions - radial tires, the larger 250 something flathead six and the rear pumpkin is out of a 1959 or 60 Dodge. In a dozen years he has driven the car well over 200,000 miles and getas an honest 22 mpg plus out of this thing. I drove the car from Kingman to Flagstaf - all uphill - and this thing did more than just keep up with traffic. It cruised at 70 and on the steep grades walked away from vehicles a lot newer. He posts alot on the Desotoland message board. I don't have the address but there is a link at the bottom of my blog - www.route66chronicles.blogspot.com