To Stay a Classic or Not Stay a Classic, That is The Question!

[1937hd45]

Thanks Twitch! Last week I finally shipped the last bit of a complete 1931 or maybe it was a 1932 Oakland sedan I parted out. It was a one owner family car when they drove it under a pine tree 30 years ago, broke in half when we put a chain around the rear and pulled. I took the body off the chassis WITHOUT any tools, it was crap, but the parts will keep other projects moving along, at what pace is anyones guess. I've got a real nice owners manual and less kids college tuition out of the deal.

[Guest Taco]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In theory you're supposed to enjoy it by touring and other activities. However we've become so obsessed with condition and value that many are simply afraid to expose their cars to potential wear. One tour can devalue some near-perfect cars $10,000, and most similar cars about $1000. A tour of antique cars is a rare site these days anywhere I've been.

</div></div>This is one of my points.

Making a hot rod from an old car, is not my favorite.

Every hot rod is one old car less.

Lets restore a car and drive with it.

In the Netherlands we have the similar problem, much (restored) cars, but not at the streets.

Keep them running>>>>

Greetings,

Taco.

[Dandy Dave]

Most of the people around here think I'm crazy to take my 1915 Buick out and drive it. ( Maybe their right, But I don't care!) I do drive it to local shows and have a good time with it. The only time it is on a trailer is if I am going to a show where there are interstate highways and things are moving way too fast for it. When it was built, it was meant to be driven and I'm going to drive it! It will be on it's first tour this summer. Flint 2008, Here I come! Pre War BCA after tour is gonna be fun! Dave!

[Guest rbl2]

I drive my 26 all the time, gremlins allowing. That's what it was made for and that's why I bought it. I do try to avoid congested and/or fast moving traffic though. Not to forget no driving after dark.

[Guest L.C.22]

I am not wealthy but one of the things that makes my life rich is driving my stuff

I have three differing stories that I tell when someone asks about me driving an old vehicle

1. I have another just like it at home......... This is my driver!

2. It was junk when I got it. Unless the crash kills me I be able to fix it

And the truth I tell fellow car guys:

It's built to drive! Lets say you crash and do $80,000 damage! If your driving a cheap car your outta luck. But the more valuable it is the better off you are. You can go to the bank and they will loan you $80,000 to fix a $800,000 car

It is almost impossible to write off a "full classic" just like writing of your house or a WWII Fighter plane........

So the guy that tells you ''His car is TOO VALUABLE'' is in fact telling you he has zero standing with his bankers or his car is really not ''Worth'' fixing in the first place.

My .02

[Guest BJM]

Interesting perspective. If you only show them, you are only "half enjoying" them.

If it's older and not so modern, just choose appropriate back roads and/or group events.

At the Buick Club Nationals in 2006, we had a Pre war division supper and caravaned out to a lake spot. We had our modern car, following about 10 cars. It was a blast just to follow.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Interesting perspective. If you only show them, you are only "half enjoying" them. </div></div>

The Vintage Triumph Register, and I believe almost all other national clubs for British cars, have a unique approach to this issue that I really like. Every national or regional meet is required to have several driving events, including at least one tour and one autocross. Often there are other driving events as well (track timing, drag races, etc.).

<span style="text-decoration: underline">All</span> of the drivng events occur before the judged show for the meet (<span style="font-style: italic">in VTR's case 2 shows, an AACA-type show for authentic cars and a concours and/or entrants choice show for </span>{mildly}<span style="font-style: italic"> modified cars</span>). To enter the car in any show you <span style="text-decoration: underline">must</span> enter it in at least one driving event.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I remember driving my TR-6 blindfolded in a big field in VT once, around 1988 while my wife gave the directions and knocked a beach ball around the field with a broom. We were timed. I did not hit the hay bales. Great fun. Scheduled tours went on whether sun, rain or snow.

I wonder if VTR has any sort of national insurance policy, though. This has become a big issue for MARC & MAFCA, and it seems less Model A meets will have a driving component in the future due to insurance issues.

[MCHinson]

Steve, don't both MAFCA and MARC both have mandatory "Tours" for each meet? I do understand the insurance worries about "Car Games", but I think the Tours will stay forever...

[Guest L.C.22]

Back roads? Back roads are fun

HELL I race much of my junk ...... I mean tires smoking.

My daily transport is a 1938 GMC pickup truck with a 6! Yes I haul stuff .....sand, bricks ...... stuff

I've driven my old cars all over the world!

AND not some ''NAMBIE-PAMBIE'' Peking to Paris or Great(?) Race(?) with a team of Range Rovers full mechanics following me AND GOD T.V.!!

I don't own anything new........ most all's prewar

I guess I just have a different idea of old car fun. If I wanted something to ''jus' look at'' I'd buy a floor lamp

Shows are far less than half the fun........ try a full four wheel drift in a 30's roadster at speed .......... that's almost as good as sex!

AND in 46 years of driving prewar cars I've never crashed one...... yet

[Guest ZondaC12]

Wow. THAT was the most entertaining post I've seen on an online forum in awhile.

Sounds like your life sure isn't lacking in the fun department! Good point about the "Great Race" or whatever if you need to be bailed out there's a crew that'll do just that! The real way is "roughin' it" out in the wilderness on your own! I'm really glad I was able to, with help from member here JohnD1956, the director of our buick club chapter, obtain that mentality 2 years ago when I worried the 38 wouldnt make it 2 hours south of here and back, after being on the road for only a couple weeks. The ol' girl sure proved me wrong!

[TG57Roadmaster]

The day that the AACA allows this forum to have a "Modified, Rat Rod or Good Guys" Forum will be the last you'll hear from me.

First, this club hasn't caved to the modified crowd like the BCA and others, by allowing modifieds in their shows.

Second, there's no harm in discussing the rod vs. restore issue, but like so many others ("Classic"; To Whitewall or Not To Whitewall, etc.), it's a round-robin talk that never ends until we assume room temperature.

Third, there are likely a gazillion forums on sites that cater to rodding types. Use <span style="font-style: italic">THEM</span> if you want to talk about rodded crap.

Personally, I think the AACA is getting dangerously close to caving by recognizing plasticene* Glasspar Model A Replicas and other "factory-built" replicars and giving them a judging class.

When the heck did <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> become a priority?

TG

*Plasticene; What you get when you combine plastic and obscene.

[michel88]

I agree with you and I would not support any "Rat Rod" or Good?? Guys" forum. I dropped out of the 49-51 Ford Club because the magazine became slanted toward modifying these cars.

[Guest 4buick7]

I like to think of myself as a purist and prefer stock to modified. However, the street rod segment of the hobby is by far the fastest growing and I feel there is room for everyone in the hobby. I agree with those who feel it's blasphemy to take a rare or true classic car and modify it. I also have to admit I can't remember seeing a true classic that's been converted to a street rod. Also, I feel that a modified 32 Ford is as much a classic in the generic sense as a stock one.

The majority of the cars that have been restored back to stock have actually been modified to some degree. Items such as electric fuel pumps, radial tires, seat belts are installed for sound reasons but nevertheless change the car from the original condition. How many restored cars today are painted with the exact same type of paint as when they left the factory? I guess it's a matter of sinning a little or sinning a lot.

Many of us in the old car hobby are no longer young. We still like to drive our cars because that's what the hobby is all about to most of us. Some modifications are necessary in the interests of safety and comfort. I feel that is a major reason that the street rods have become so popular. You have what appears to be an old car but your enjoying the comfort and safety of a modern automobile. Personally. I enjoy the adventure of driving an originally equipped vehicle but everyone in the hobby doesn't (ask your wife which type of car she would prefer for something longer than the proverbial Sunday cruise).

I also appreciate the fact that many of the street rods would be either rusting away in someone's back yard or crushed if it were not for the interest of the hot rod segment of the hobby. A good analogy is the "surfer's curse" in the woodie world. Many of the woodie owners have been frustrated by the modifications and general neglect in the hands of the surfers back in the 50's and 60's when a woodie was just an old car. However, had the woodies not been popular with the surfer crowd, many more would have gone to the crusher. The surfers actually saved many woodies and the surfing culture is a major reason woodies are so popular today.

I think we have to try and accept the fact that everyone in the hobby doesn't think the same and try to appreciate all types of old cars, regardless of our personal preferences.

47 Buick Estate Wagon

[1937hd45]

You're kidding I hope!!!!! A Glasspar is great if you need to roll some thing over a cliff and have run out of Shay repos.

Personally, I think the AACA is getting dangerously close to caving by recognizing plasticene* Glasspar Model A Replicas and other "factory-built" replicars and giving them a judging class.

When the heck did <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> become a priority?

TG

*Plasticene; What you get when you combine plastic and obscene.

[Matt Harwood]

Anyone seen this month's (January 2008) <span style="font-style: italic">Hemmings Motor News</span> in the section where they highlight the cars that attended a Hemmings cruise night? It's on page 79 of the front color section. There's a <span style="font-weight: bold">fully rodded 1934 Packard victoria</span>. I think it's a [thankfully] Standard 8 because the headlight lenses are flat--any Packard experts out there who've seen it?

It goes on to say that the owner created it from a clean California original, not a basket case. It looks mostly stock outside except for the goofy wide radials sticking out of the metal sidemount covers. He stuck a 502 crate motor in it with an 700R-4 automatic. The place where he could have been original and innovative with his "rod," he does a Chevy and an automatic, just like everyone else. Nah, on second thought, just cut up a rare original car instead. You don't need to be creative to do that.

The car really is heartbreakingly beautiful (well, were it still original, anyway), and he's clearly spent a ton of money on it. Nevertheless, it makes me cry--that's my dream car that I hope to own someday, and another one is gone forever, permanently out of my reach no matter how much money I may have.

Worse yet, it says, and I quote: <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Dick won't be idle this winter: He is building a 1934 Packard Victoria convertible."</span></span> I don't know for sure, but "building" implies rodding to me. Now <span style="font-style: italic">that's</span> a big deal.

Fine, it's his car, he can do what he wants, and I won't try to stop anyone from doing it. But this is where it's going for guys with a lot of disposable income. Here's just <span style="font-style: italic">one guy</span>, and he isn't happy cutting up <span style="font-weight: bold">one</span> '34 Packard, he needs to do another, and a convertible this time.

I would hope that a rodded '34 Packard Victoria convertible would be a money loser, even in today's market.

<span style="font-style: italic">~Shudder~</span>

[1937hd45]

So what is an AACA National First Prize winning 1934 Packard Vicky worth on the open market today? I'd like to know before making a comment.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what is an AACA National First Prize winning 1934 Packard Vicky worth on the open market today? I'd like to know before making a comment. </div></div>

Super 8 $225-$250K

Standard 8 $150-$175K

My educated estimate

[1937hd45]

I Googled a photo of the Vicky in question, didn't look like anything drastic was done to it. Personally I'd swap out the welled front fenders, I think they look goofy on any post 1932 vehicle, but thats just my opinion.

[michel88]

Changing out the original straight 8 and trans with a 502 crate motor and 700-4 automatic is drastic to me. I think it is an ultimate ego trip to change a fine machine like this car to "personal taste". These rodders have more money than taste!

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: michel88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Changing out the original straight 8 and trans with a 502 crate motor and 700-4 automatic is drastic to me. </div></div>

Agreed. I can guarantee he didn't just drop the modern motor and transmission in there in place of the originals and call it done. I'm guessing there aren't any original suspension pieces, radiator, brakes, rear end, gas tank, floors (a rod with wood floors? Forget it), wheels, steering linkage, dashboard, window regulators, seats, wiring, accessories, etc. I'd be surprised if the frame were still the original. The Packard's original frame and related bits were never meant to handle that kind of power, and if he spent enough money to make that car look like that, he probably didn't cut corners.

So while I can agree that he didn't <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> modfy the exterior sheetmetal, there likely isn't much Packard left. Any idea what it would take to take it back to stock? At least another 1934 Packard "donor" and another six-figure check.

Returning this car to stock would be as challenging as starting with a stripped basket case, IMHO. The only thing you don't have to worry about is some metal fabrication on the exterior body panels (but is the original fabric insert still in the top--doesn't look like it). As I said, it's probably gone forever.

I hope the take-offs at least made it into a restorer's hands...

Here's the car in question (beautiful, no?):

PS: I just bought the 1955 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing that won Pebble Beach last year. But since parts are so hard to find, I going to put an LS1 in it instead. See you in the garage!

Feh.

[1937hd45]

I'd really like to know what the guy started with, and why all the restorers walked past the project in the first place. It's on the road, 99 out of 100 old car people recognize it as a Packard. Does anyone have better photos of it?

[Dynaflash8]

QUOTE: I have always felt that a car should stay original

(within reason, replacing non-working parts,etc.) and not be chopped up, 350'ed or anything else, I have always felt that it would be like me breaking into the national archives and stealing the Constitution and scratching out words and making revisions in the margins and changing it as I see fit. TELL ME YOUR OPINION! UNQUOTE

Man, he said it right. It's true, I guess, if you own it, you can do what you want to with it. But can't you just imagine some owner of the "Mona Lisa" portrait somewhere along the line drawing a mustache and a beard on the lady, and maybe putting glasses on her? Same thing.

[1937hd45]

The guy PAID for the project and spent his money on it, car or painting he can do what he wants with it. Do you guys pick on guys wives or girlfirends the same way? Too much plastic, needs plastic, thats not original etc? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dynaflash8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QUOTE: I have always felt that a car should stay original

(within reason, replacing non-working parts,etc.) and not be chopped up, 350'ed or anything else, I have always felt that it would be like me breaking into the national archives and stealing the Constitution and scratching out words and making revisions in the margins and changing it as I see fit. TELL ME YOUR OPINION! UNQUOTE

Man, he said it right. It's true, I guess, if you own it, you can do what you want to with it. But can't you just imagine some owner of the "Mona Lisa" portrait somewhere along the line drawing a mustache and a beard on the lady, and maybe putting glasses on her? Same thing. </div></div>

[Dandy Dave]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Do you guys pick on guys wives or girlfirends the same way? Too much plastic, needs plastic, thats not original etc? </div></div>

Actully I perfer an original Brassy Lassy with gold trim over a smoking, plastic, and chrome phoney any day! Dave!

[Dave@Moon]

If <span style="font-style: italic">Hemmings</span> is praising this kind of activity, how long will it be before <span style="font-style: italic">Antique Automobile</span> will <span style="text-decoration: underline">have</span> to?

People started throwing buckets of paint on fur coats (with substantial public support) when people "<span style="font-style: italic">did what they wanted with their money</span>" to an obscene degree. Fur coats haven't been the same since, either societally or economically.

Anybody got any extra buckets?

[1937hd45]

The icing on the cake would be if he bought the '34 Vicky at the Hershey Car corral.

[Matt Harwood]

<span style="font-weight: bold">1937HD45</span>, I wonder if any restorers actually walked past it? It sounded to me like it was a complete, clean car when he bought it. I don't think it was a project car that other people were passing up. He bought a running, presentable Classic and rodded it, which is the crux of this discussion.

Actually, I think there are two major discussions going on here:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">One)</span> Modifying cars is fine and nobody has any concerns with doing it to cars of which there is a considerable supply (Chevys, Fords, etc.). But cutting up a 1-of-less than-50 full Classic is painful to hobbyists who love the cars in their original state. If I want to see an original Model A victoria coupe, I can find one easily. If I want to see an original Packard victora coupe, it's a lot harder.</span>

This is troubling to some of us who are passionate about these cars because this is an increasingly popular thing to do. As more money flows into the rodding side of the hobby, there are guys who have the desire and means to do something nobody's ever done before. They don't want Fords and Chevys, they want something <span style="font-style: italic">unique</span> and have the means to have anything they want.

It's really hard to build a Ford nobody's ever seen before and probably vastly more expensive to hand-fabricate something totally unique. But it is relatively easy & inexpensive to cut up a restored Classic (the key word being <span style="font-style: italic">relatively</span>) to have something nobody else has. Which cost more to build, this Packard or Foose's "garden variety" 1936 Ford Roadster "Impression" (I'll bet next week's paycheck that the Ford was more expensive by an order of magnitude):

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Two)</span> Where is the dividing line (if any) behind the two "factions" of the old car hobby? If "traditional" magazines and clubs start to embrace rodding, will it lead to drastic reductions of original cars participating and/or surviving? Very possibly. Some of us may feel betrayed by this "evolution" of the hobby and like we are running out of places to live.</span>

I'm 37 now, and by far the youngest guy at my local BCA chapter meetings. I may very well be the youngest by 20 years! In 20 years, will I be motoring around in my original Century all alone, trying to keep up with other 1941 Buicks with big block Chevys in them?

I guess if the owner of the Packard above stopped by here and read all this, we'd probably all come off like A-holes, and I'm sorry about that if you're reading this, sir. We're not A-holes, and we don't have anything personal against you. We all understand that it's your car and you can do whatever you want with it. I guarantee nobody here will say otherwise, no matter what kind of words some of us like to put in someone else's mouth.

Not one of us is saying <span style="font-weight: bold">"there oughta' be a law!"</span> or that this gentleman shouldn't be allowed to do build any car he wants, any way he wants. Nobody is suggesting that he should lose his "old car privleges" because of that Packard.

No, we're simply expressing disappointment that another irreplaceable, valuable, interesting, desireable, notworthy custom-built car has been permanently removed from circulation, forever lost to future generations who may never see an original because they're being hunted to extinction.

I'm very sad, because if I had found that car as a basket case, I very well might have tried to buy it and restore it. The point here is that the owner of this car clearly appreciated how it looks because he preserved <span style="font-style: italic">that part</span> almost entirely.

What he didn't appreciate (or perhaps he merely didn't know any better) is that a 1934 Packard can be made to run as well as it looks without a 502 big block and automatic transmission. An 8-cylinder 1934 Packard will cruise at 70 MPH all day, especially after a 6-figure restoration (which is easily what this guy spent on the silver car).

The fallacy that old cars aren't reliable and break down and aren't safe is what is hurting us, and if this guy were merely about bling, the car wouldn't look so stock and wouldn't have a garden variety powertrain in it. No, he built this car because he didn't want it to drive like a Packard, he just wanted it to look like one.

And that hurts this hobby in a big way.

PS <span style="font-weight: bold">1937HD45</span>: How much was the car at Hershey, what was its year/model/bodystyle/condition and does anyone have the owner's phone number? I'll find <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> way to pay for it if it's a restorable/complete/running 1934 Packard Super 8.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I wouldn't worry about Antique Automobile, Dave. The audience may overlap, but it is different. No doubt HMN has added this general interest content to help compete with a growing Internet based marketplace for cars and parts. The editors write about what interests them, you can tell by the cars and years that get constant coverage ("GM Collanades" are seen as often as "rat rods.. ) or by some of the commentary on auction coverage. I am sure these guys may influence markets to some degree but most prewar collectors surely see that is not their area of interest. Personally, as a near 30 year subscriber I would rather just get the old format for less cost.

Antique Automobile is probably the best magazine out there now for those interested in unmodified cars.

[ted sweet]

that car built 10-15 years ago

[1937hd45]

Matt, That was well written, and I can sort of understand how you feel, I just don't have any burning need for a '34 Packard, AACA National First prize winning OR Rodded. There wasn't one in the Hershey Car Corral, that was just a "What if" on my part. That Packard might have been restored years ago if there was a lid on what AACA accepts as an "Antique", a possable restorer may have opted for a 25 year old vehicle to sink his funds in. The beauty of Street Rodding is the fact that they have a cutoff year of 1948, so everyone has an interest in the same era vehicles, AACA lost that option in the 1970's.

[1937hd45]

Steve, I forget how long ago it was that I quit subscribing to Hemmings, but I have great memories of it when it WAS the Bible of the old car hobby. If my first class issue wasn't in the mail box on the 22nd, I was very depressed.The internet nailed the lid on it, but it was dying a slow death before that. Those in the Rodding part of the hobby are having all the fun because they can use their vehicles, and not have the car picked to pieces by experts, then load it in the trailer and drive home.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The beauty of Street Rodding is the fact that they have a cutoff year of 1948, so everyone has an interest in the same era vehicles, AACA lost that option in the 1970's. </div></div>

Who could possibly believe that? If it's got wheels, it's a potential street rod. I've seen Priuses and Insights that could be considered street rods. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Most</span> Camaros, Mustangs, and 1957 Chevys <span style="font-weight: bold">undoubtedly</span> are street rods.

The beauty of street rodding is that there are no rules and no mores. It's essentially an automotive orgy with no other purpose than self-gratification and self-aggrandisement. The idea that you can do that <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> preserve history <span style="font-style: italic">instead of consuming it</span> through other aspects of the hobby becomes less known every year.

Nothing is sacred, not even what should be. Sadly Emil Faber was right but will never be appreciated.

(<span style="font-style: italic">I wonder how many people are looking up Emil Faber now to see who the he!! he was?</span>)

[nearchoclatetown]

Gee, these guys want an endurance test before they are allowed to show their cars?? Wasn't that why we drove through the car corral at Hershey this year?

[1937hd45]

Dave, If you really think you can get a 1949 ANYTHING into a NSRA event you'll feel just like the owner of a 24 year old wreck on the outside of an AACA National event.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Re Emil Faber -I think Dave is saying some of our hot rodding friends represent the "Delta House" of the hobby?? "Put Neidermeyer on it, he's a sneaky little $#@t just like you, right?"..

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, If you really think you can get a 1949 ANYTHING into a NSRA event you'll feel just like the owner of a 24 year old wreck on the outside of an AACA National event. </div></div>

Have you been reading the "rat rod" thread? Being left on the outside of the organized hobby is what a huge proportion of these guys are all about! There are street rods and there are street rods, just like there are guns and there are cheap Saturday night specials. Some people may be buying one to be part of a community or an interest, but surely buyers of the other are doing so with far less noble intentions.

It's more absurd to think that all street rodding is under the auspices of the NSRA than it is to think that all antiques are trailer queens. It's not (strictly speaking) the actions of only one group (or <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> organized group) that we're talking about here. It should be obvious, but if you need an explanation, here is one:

There are admirable, decent, legitmate street rodders....., and there are butchers. Defending the actions of the butchers by merely invoking the presence of the legit community is like defending the actions of that sad kid shooting up the mall in Omaha on Friday just because the NRA exists.

There's no way you can defend the rape of any legitmate/quality car like these Packards on ethical grounds. These guys are doing wrong by any dispassionate evaluation.

====================

BTW, doing a google search for street rods shows that there are more online hits for 1949 street rods than there are for 1948. There are <span style="text-decoration: underline">almost half again more</span> hits than those two for 1955 street rods. <span style="font-style: italic">And</span> there are <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">almost half again more</span></span> hits than 1955 for <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">1965</span> street rods</span>! <span style="text-decoration: underline">And there are even more hits than that for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">1975</span> street rods</span></span>!!! Apparently somebody is not getting the NSRA's messages!

[Guest ZondaC12]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The car really is heartbreakingly beautiful.... Nevertheless, it makes me cry</div></div>

WOW! Something real close to home here. Your thoughts are the <span style="font-weight: bold">SAME</span> ones I had two years ago when I first got the '38 on the road, and began attending a big local cruise night every Wednesday at a Kohl's parking lot, and encountered this car. I can't stand it. Dick is SUUUUUCH a nice guy, I've talked to him, he noticed my car and complimented me urgently for my interest in "the old stuff", and propmtly sent me on a rollercoaster of emotions.

I remember the first time I saw him pull in. I almost RAN over to that thing. I knew it was a Packard and it looked like a high end one. The hood was open!!! WOOOHOOO!!!! Awww man lets see the big old FLATHEAD Packard Inline 8.......what.....no!!! WHAT? I couldn't believe my eyes. I was later told "yeah he put a 502 in that thing. what a monster those things are heh!!!"

Not really anyone at that cruise has any negative feelings towards him for doing that. It's HARD to, as I said he's a real nice guy. I was further disheartened to look inside it.....I saw the outside and thought "wow at least he left the body alone" and sure enough the interior looks like every other hot rod I've seen.

Now that this has been metioned Im kinda surprised I didn't bring it up. I started out here, "brought up" in the mindset of preservation, when you look at it I've really been influenced HEAVILY by the members of this forum. Even early on when I first got the car on the road I was already in that mindset and was just dumbstruck when I saw that thing. I really couldn't believe someone did that. I've brought it up in conversations with some of the people that attend that cruise, and I've gotten a few "yeah it is a rare car" but no one has really said anything like what we throw back and forth on here. I KNOW it's because of the kinda guy he is. I met him and suddenly felt guilty. I felt un-Christian, too, as a more specific side effect.

This area (the Capital Region of NY) is truly full of car-culture, especially the old-car scene. I've observed that, and it's a great thing. But no different than the rest of the country obviously, the hot-rodding is rampant and interest in pre-war stuff and keeping it like a pre-war car was built like is not a common thing.

I am not one to expect a ton of attention, I don't need that kind of gratification. I try to be humble, probably to a fault at time. But I GET attention alright. When I first started dragging my car to cruises EVERYONE was coming up to me to hear "my story" granted I was a 17 year old kid driving an almost 70-year old car, but everyone said "WOW theres none of these around here" and I hoped I'd see another one, I really wanted to. I'd walk around the shows and cruise nites and felt kind of sad. Id see a car that was clearly late 30s, and some had almost the same front end, turned out to be a Chev or Olds, but all hot-rodded! I couldnt understand it. Now I do. And now I know why everyone was and is so shocked to see the thing. The stock very tall stance, original but shiny chrome left as it was supposed to be and the well-aged but solid interior really are <span style="font-weight: bold">unique</span> *wink wink nudge nudge*

This year I had several people I've become very chummy with even say "Man I would LOVE to hot rod yer car" and they respect my opinion, they know how staunchly in my mindset I am, and the clubs and shows and cruises welcome all kinds of stuff.....but I think if it were in their hands it would not look like it does now.

Shameless plug as it may be, I have to shout out to JohnD1956, for starting our Upstate NY chapter of the BCA. The vast majority of our members (and those who showed up at the show we hosted this summer) have original or restored cars and are keeping them that way, and that's what our club's focus largely seems to be. The one guy I know In our chapter with a hot rodded 48 sedanette STILL has the interior unchanged, and the body has been left alone, and at the least, the powerplant is a 1971 Buick 455! Not even a cookie cutter, "true" (thats a standard to strive for?) 350/350 etc etc rod we all see all the time. All I mean by this is all is not lost, we just gotta never stop fightin' the good fight!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re Emil Faber -I think Dave is saying some of our hot rodding friends represent the "Delta House" of the hobby?? "Put Neidermeyer on it, he's a sneaky little $#@t just like you, right?"..</div></div>

Actually it was more a "<span style="font-style: italic">...for they know not what they do.</span>" reference. At the root of this problem, as I've said for years and from the very beginning of this thread, is that we're not doing anything to effectively change that. It appears some people like it that way, even here.

[ted sweet]

Certain NRSA events are open to all cars/trucks 30 years old.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, If you really think you can get a 1949 ANYTHING into a NSRA event you'll feel just like the owner of a 24 year old wreck on the outside of an AACA National event. </div></div>