Status of '29 645 Sport Coupe Restoration Project

[jrbartlett]

You've done a great job. All the '29s I've seen (quite a few, since I've always liked them) had the chromed, hinged brackets on the trunk rack pointing nearly straight up and down when the rack was up, basically parallel to the rack itself. Yours point back at a significant angle. I wonder if something has been reversed, perhaps the upright mounting brackets that bolt on to the frame crossmember?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbartlett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. All the '29s I've seen (quite a few, since I've always liked them) had the chromed, hinged brackets on the trunk rack pointing nearly straight up and down when the rack was up, basically parallel to the rack itself. Yours point back at a significant angle. I wonder if something has been reversed, perhaps the upright mounting brackets that bolt on to the frame crossmember? </div></div>

Yes, I noticed that also, and haven't found anyway to correct it, since the hinges are out straight, when rack is parallel to ground, as they should be. I'm sure the mounting brackets are correct and original.

The rack didn't have any hinges on it, when I got the car. (got them on eBay) So I don't know if the original hinges were different or not but the only thing I can figure is that someone may have moved the hinge-pin locations on the rack and it had longer hinges originally (before their change), if it wasn't originally the way it is Now. To correct it I would need hinges that are a different length and to relocate the pins on rack, (there is another set of holes in rack already). The coachbuilder that did the body (I think Dietrich) probably had their own design, and original hinges would be impossible to find.

So I'll probably let the Next owner Worry about that.

(Too many unknowns).

[West Peterson]

I think maybe just the top hing is too short. I don't think there would have been any need for Dietrich to customize the rack or hinges. It looks pretty standard to me. Do you still have the photos I sent to you about a year ago of the right-hand taillight of a Deitrich? That might give you an idea of how it should hook up. If not, I'll see if I can get some shots of the rack itself.

Or... Maybe Jim can get you a photo of his.

Here's a link to one, but it's kind of far away.

http://www.prewarcar.com/show_prewar_car.asp?car_id=41951

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The one on that 640 is made completely different than the one on my 645. On the 645 there is a steel cover that covers the complete rear of the car (frame-rails and all) and the rack brackets mount to that cover. (see pics)

I remember the pics you posted, but I could not find a saved copy of them yet.

So far I've Not been able to find any rack assembly pictures like this one. I think only some 645 Coupes and Roadsters had that cover, Not Sedans, but not sure about that?

It may not be a Dietrich difference but only a 645 Coupe difference?

[Restorer32]

Likely you just have the wrong hinged brackets (landaus). They come in various lengths depending on whether the car was a conv/coupe or sedan. If you look carefully at the ends near the mounting holes you may find a year stamp. Racks on coupes and convertibles mount at a different angle from sedans. Your rack looks pretty standard to me.

[1935Packard]

Terrific work.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Thanks,

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Likely you just have the wrong hinged brackets (landaus). They come in various lengths depending on whether the car was a conv/coupe or sedan. </div></div>

But if they were any other Length, then the rack wouldn't lay flat (horizontal) when in the down position. Any longer and the hinge arms wouldn't be fully extended (out straight) when down and any shorter the rack wouldn't go all the way down ???

Unless the hinge arms were Not fully extended when down, (they are on my 626, my 1502, and many other cars I have pictures of), and it just depended on the bump-stops for the down limit, on this car.

I'm wondering if the originals were in a curved © shape or something, that allowed them to pull in more in the up position, but still be the correct length when down?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I'll be trying to install the Cowl Lights today. It's very difficult getting up under the dash now that I have the seat in. I've done it with the seat in but my neck was sore for 2 days. I may have to remove the seat Or Hire a Midget to do it for me.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I got the Cowl lights installed and working.

I forgot that with the windows down I could reach both the outside and inside of the lights. I couldn't see what I was doing when putting the nuts on but I did it by feel. I used rubber grommets to hold the bolts in place while putting lights on, so I was able to do it with No help. It needs the grommets for a water seal anyway.

I did it without any damage to the lights or car and Only Slight damage to Me.

[Earl B.]

There's definitely one thing different about Speedy's trunk rack. His has 6 horizontal bars, and other 6th series cars I've found have 5 horizontal bars....B

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, that's true. Seven, counting the one down on the cover. It was fun cutting and shaping all that wood.

I used 1.5" dowel rods, cut them down the middle, shaped the ends and sides, stained and varnished.

There's also vertical braces, between the horizontals, that are part of the Rack, that most racks don't have.

I can see why Dietrich used so much aluminum in this body, (doors, trunk-lid, etc.) since things like the rack, radiator, hood, rear-cover, etc. , were extra heavy on the 645.

[Restorer32]

I don't think they used aluminum to reduce weight. Aluminum is easier to form using less robust and therefore less expensive dies. Most of the rarer body styles such as 4 door convertibles incorporate aluminum in the "custom" parts in an effort to save money, not weight. Those steel dies used in the manufacture of the "production" cars were extremely expensive and not warranted for low production bodies.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, that's true, But don't you think the design engineers realized that lighter aluminum components would Improve the 'power to weight' ratio of the car, then, Also?

[West Peterson]

I remember reading a story about one of the Classic Car manufacturers, Marmon (if I remember correctly, but it may have been Peerless), who experimented with building a completely aluminum car, engine, frame, body, etc. The difference in overall weight savings was not significant enough to consider further pursuit of such an endeavor.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Through out the history of auto design there have been many efforts to use aluminum, due to it's weight reduction. The problem, they usually run into are strength, durability, and electrolosis. So if you can't make parts Reliable enough, 'What Ya Gonna Do'.

I really like the aluminum doors on the 645. Much lighter than the steel ones on my 626. (you can really tell the difference) and of course there weren't any Rust-pits in them to fill, like there were on most of the body.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I forgot that when the driveshaft is install, it's almost impossible to put in the 4 inside bolts in the Hoop-guard, that's bolted to center of frame. (keeps the shaft for droping down, if shaft joints break or come loose). The 4 outside bolts will have to Do, for now. (I had left the Hoop off until I had Tested the driveline)

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I put battleship-linoleum on the rear floor of the Dietrich 645 Rumble-seat Coupe. I didn't know what it had originally, since the floor was completely gone, but that must be what it had? I'm pretty sure it wasn't carpet. Can anyone verify that is correct or not?

I know linoleum was on the front floor, because I found small scraps of it that were left, each side of toe-board.

I made it easily removable, so if I ever determined it should be something else, I could change it.

[Restorer32]

The 840 Roadster we restored had carpet originally as does another locally owned 840 Roadster that has never been restored.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Rick-

The front floor boards on our '28 526 had badky worn battleship linoleum,(light gray) on them. trimmed with aluminum strips. Afre replacing the linoleum I covered the area with carpet to proect the new linoleum from our sandy enviornment. The carpet is easily removable.

The back seat floor was bare wood with no clue as to the original covering. I carpeted this as well, but have no idea as to its correctness.

Unfortunately, I failed to take photos of the rear area when I took pictures of the original cars at Harrah's in 1981.I took plenty of shots of other areas, but failed to take any of the rear interior. Now I can blame it on old age but that didn't fit in '81.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 840 Roadster we restored had carpet originally as does another locally owned 840 Roadster that has never been restored. </div></div>

I called a local guy that has the '28 Rumbleseat Coupe last night and his has linoleum in back floor. He thinks its original but not sure.

It seems that it would be very difficult to Push in your Golfbag on a Carpet floor. He actually drives the car to the golf-course to go Golfing.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1928Packard526</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The back seat floor was bare wood with no clue as to the original covering. I carpeted this as well, but have no idea as to its correctness. </div></div>

I think all Sedans had Carpet on Rear Floor. It should be held down by Snaps at corners and sides.

It's a Rumbleseat Coupe that I'm trying to find out about.

[34PackardRoadsta]

On the 34 1104 Coupe Roadster the entire rumble seat area except the seat cushion (thus, the sides and above the foot area/Golf club storage) is done with carpet. The carpet is a fairly coarse weave, sort of like trunk carpet.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Okay, it sounds like '31s and later Coupes had Carpet in rear. We just need more Input about years before '31? And if Coachbuilt cars were different?

[Restorer32]

If linoleum was used in the rear rumble compartment what covered the raw edge of the linoleum at the golf bag door? What was used on the bottom side of the well that your knees rub against when you are seated in the rumbleseat? On '31 thru '34 coupes and conv this entire area was carpeted. Inside surface of golf bag door was upholstered with the same leather as the seats, possibly carpet but I've not seen one like this.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

For the GolfCompartment door Sill I used 2 strips of beveled wood, (one inside and one outside), to act as a water and wind seal, for bottom of door, and since the inside edge of the wood strip is slightly above the linoleum it protects the edge of it.

All of that was gone when I got the car, So I looked at pictures of another '29 Dietrich Coupe's door and I designed and built something that worked, using the pictures as a guide.

The cardboard panels at sides of seat, the panel separating the front and rear compartments, and the golf door are all covered with upholstery fabric. I used my neighbors '28 Coupe as guide for all the fabric locations. I used the same fabric that I used for upper part of front door panels, head-liner, etc.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Here's a pic of the Golf door opening. (the black floor is the linoleum) You can see the door sill strips:

(sorry about poor quality of the picture, I had to lighten it greatly to be able to see the strips and it was cropped from a larger picture)

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I got all the window Garnish-moldings made. Roughly made that is, they still need some sanding, stain and varnish. Except the very thin curved one that goes around top and sides of back-window.

The original piece of wood must have been made by warping a straight piece in a special form jig, but as yet I've not been able to find a good way to do it. I tried to warp one and it broke. It needs to be a solid piece, not laminated or kurfed, that has two 90 degree bends. They couldn't have cut it that way, in a (U) shape, since the wood-grain is curved with the piece, so I assume they Steam bent it. But I don't have an Oven large enough to fit it in, when straight. I hate to make a special box to steam this one piece, but I may Have to.

(I have the original one, that's broken, so I have it to use as a guide when making the form)

Where is Norm Abrams, when you Need him?

Anyone know how the original was Formed?

[Earl B.]

Speedster, could you post a picture of the original piece? Maybe I can tell you something.. B

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yep, I have some pics that I took of it about 9 months ago, when I first started trying to figure out how to make another. It's about 22" wide and 8" tall. It has a beveled shape, 3/8" thick at back and 1/4" thick at outer rounded edge.

[Earl B.]

It's always a better read if I have the piece in my hands, but from the pictures and your description, it was originally cut on a bandsaw to shape, sanded smooth, and then steambent. You can make a good steamer very easily, and do it on the kitchen stove or an outside cooker if you have a fussy other half.... you can make a steamer out of osb, since it has exterior glue, and fit it over a pot of water, and let it go... plug the ends of the box, loosely so the steam can move through it.. and have the jig prepared to overbend it, because it will spring back a little when you remove it from the jig. Let it dry a couple of weeks to be sure it's good and dry. Let it dry slowly at first, then put it out in the sun a day or two.. should be good and dry... and good luck with it.. I just wish I were close enough to help you with it... B

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, I tried hand steaming the first one that broke, so I then designed a steamer, using a 4' piece of PVC pipe and tubing connected to a steam boiler, but I just don't think this one piece is worth all the time, effort and money of building the special steamer and the holding jig.

I've about desided to design my own window molding, using separate pieces instead of the one long warped piece (similar to the door window moldings). I don't like the way it's made anyway, since it doesn't cover the edge of the fabric covered cardboard that's around it.

This won't be the first thing I've changed, improved and simplified and it won't be the last.

Hey, I admit it, I'm a Customizer at Heart.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

In fact you should see the Fancy multi-compartment Tool Box I designed and Added, under the Rumble-seat.

I think Dietrich would have Liked it.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

It's now 35 degrees outside. My '29 626 will Not start when it's this Cold. So I wanted to see if the 645 would?

With the choke completely closed, it Did Start. It would only Idle until it warmed up some, but at least it will start.

[Guest Albert]

My dad made a steemer using a piece of pipe, and a car block heater in the bottom for steeming wood strips for his model boats. Make a form on a piece of plywood in the shape needed and then clamp the wood to it till it drys to shape, then to a final sanding, as the steeming till raise the grain of the wood somewhat..

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I just readjusted the 645s Timeing chain with no problems, Except that since now having the right side Splash-shield installed makes getting to the lower generator mounting/adjusting Nut, Much more difficult. There is a hole in the shield for that purpose, but there's still Not much leverage room for the wrench. (and an open-end type wrench is the only type that can be used)

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Well, I found a MAJOR Problem with the Coupe today.

Yesterday when checking the timing chain, I thought the oil on chain looked a little Cloudy.

So today, after seeing that the oil level gauge was reading fuller than it was, I pulled the oil drain plug and about a pint of water came out before the oil started flowing.

It could be a leaking head gasket, but I had a similar problem after running the 626 a few hours and it was a Cracked-block.

I'm so pissed right now, I think I'll just drain the oil and water, and wait until Spring to work on this dang thing anymore. I've worked on it for a year and a half, so I think I'll take a break from it and work on an Indoor project for awhile.

[jrbartlett]

Don't despair yet. Besides being a gasket, it could also be a cracked head. I was able to get a cracked head welded recently by a diesel rebuilding shop (they preheated it in a furnace), and it has since performed perfectly in 1,000 miles of driving.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, I'll have to take the head off, to check it out, no matter What the problem is.

But I'm just Not in the Mood right now, if you Know what I mean.

I have an RC Ship model that I've put off completeing, because of this car, so I think I'll work on it now and try to finish it this winter and then work on the 645 in a couple months.

[Tom M]

Rick,

Sorry for your setback, I feel your pain as you know I had issues with my engine before I started my full blown restoration.

Is this car going to be a driver or are you going all the way with it for Show? Just curious because the more I read in the above forums (not the Packard forum) on this and that not being correct it sure makes it tuff for us guys that do the work on our own and that don’t have deep pockets for our beloved Packards...