1931 Buick Mayfair Carriage Body

[jscheib 290]

I am looking for some help for a someone I met in Hershey this year. He is in the Netherlands and has a 1931 Buick that has a Mayfair Carriege Body. Now this company existed in England from early until mid-1970s, but searches of the web show very little. The information available stated that they build bodyies on RR Chassis, and viewing the photos of his car suggests that the work was quality and a nice design.

The first question we have to help trace the history of this car is does anyone know more about the Mayfair Carriage Company. The AACA Library when he was there suggested that this might be a McLaughlin car, but I am not so sure.

Any help is appreciated.

John

[imported_Thriller 0]

As I understand it, many of the early cars that went to Commonwealth countries were McLaughlins. In originating in Canada, as a member of the Commonwealth, I believe there was some sort of preferential treatment (tax / duty / the like).

I don't recall where that got into my head though, but it makes some sense.

[jscheib 290]

Yes, I think too there was a dfferent tarrif in England if the chassis came from Canada rather then the US. Thanks for the commentss.

John

[jscheib 290]

I now have some photos of the car and the nameplates. I would welcome some comment on these from anyone. The owner is reading the forum site and indicated I could post the information for comment. I also would like to know what consittuted the difference in the two models, 671X and 672X, and the same number classes for the 50 series, and possible others. If I did this correctly, there should be the three files attached.

John

[jscheib 290]

I am just bringing this to the top again to see if anyone can help with some more info on this car. Thanks.

John

[henk 0]

I am a new member, i am de owner of the 31 Buick Mayfair carriage and i am living in Holland near by Amsterdam

and i am looking with Mr. J.Scheib for history my Buick how i med on de Hershey day's I try to learn the rules of this forum.

[henk 0]

I am a new member, i am de owner of the 31 Buick Mayfair carriage and i am living in Holland near by Amsterdam

and i am looking with Mr. J.Scheib for history my Buick how i med on de Hershey day's I try to learn the rules of this forum.

[jscheib 290]

Henk,

You did good. I am surprised we still know litle more about your lovely car. I amd hoping to get some info from someone here in CT about Mayfair Carriage Builders. I did learn that they built some lovely bodies for Bentley in the early '30s, so they must have been a "top shelf" carriage builder.

I hope we learn more soon.

John

[West Peterson 655]

I found a little information here. Evidently Mayfair was more common on Alvis and Lagonda. This story is about a Mercedes-Benz 540K roadster that was bodied by Mayfair.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/Profiles/2007/December/German/

[jscheib 290]

Vertigo,

Thanks for your help on this. It is suprising that there is not more info on the internet on Mayfair Carriage Ltd. which apparently was operating into the '70s. This gives us a better idea of where to search.

Thanks again.

John

[DaveCorbin 7]

Dear Henk & John:

An interesting developement. I can now tell you something about the car for sure, as I've traced the motor number shown in the picture.

The number given of 2,571,785 is an engine for a 1931 Buick somewhere in the 60 series of Buicks. It's a fairly early number, so we're looking at a fairly early in the model year car.

More specifically, the data plate also tells us it's a model 67. The first group of model 67DX is a group of 17 frame numbers ranging from 2,470,095 to 2,470,111. The engine range for this group of cars will range from 2,568,138 to 2,574,637. This obviously includes 2,571,785.

The data plate shown is a data plate for General Motors of Europe, which would ONLY be affixed to the car at the Amsterdam assembly plant. This also matches the car being, in the Buick records, only a model 67DX (dissassembled export) car. The only 67DX model group likely to have the engine number given is one of the 17 frame numbers shown above. The frame number is stamped on a small plate which will be affixed somewhere on the front of the frame or possibly under a fender. It will be difficult to see. However, look hard, because it's on there somewhere. By 1939, Buick also stamped the number on the frame, so you may find that, too.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[DaveCorbin 7]

Dear Henk & John:

Some more calculating shows your engine number to be the 3648th engine in that first group of 6500 model 60 series engines. Frame numbers for the 1931 year ranged from 2,460,544 to 2,602,731. This means the frame number group mentioned in my previous post is about 6% of the way thru the model year. This would match Buick practice of getting the export cars out quickly, so they would be in the hands of customers before the 1932 cars started.

Model 67 is for a sedan, so the Mayfair body would work well on that chassis.

I think the probable ship date from Buick was around August or early September of 1930.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[DaveCorbin 7]

Dear Henk & John:

My posts above were made while I was at work. Here at home I have a copy of Buick's Finished Cars monthly reports for the 1931 Model year. Looking at it, the shipping schedule is more heavily skewed to export cars than I expected. As a result, the car was almost surely shipped in very late June or in July 1930 to Amsterdam. Also, the 1928-1953 Master Parts Book indicates that Buick started with the first 45,200 engine numbers all being for 60 series cars, which I didn't previously note.

Your car is a VERY early 1931 and is therefore one of the earliest Straight Eight Buick cars.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Taco 0]

But why does the car have German nameplates?

Is it imported lately from Germany?

Taco.

[henk 0]

Hello Dave and John,

I looking this day very serious to find an reg. no. but no success. I think to keep-off the right fore fender maybe is the no. under this plate. Dave I now the no. of the rear axel is this any connection for more details. This no. are type A325 Fabr.no.1242295.

Hello Taco,

yes the car is same yaer's registration's in germany and the owner lost all his papers so hi needs one new motor-plate.

Th'are more discussion on the general forum and pictures

I send a messages I have the same problem the missing pin I make this by myself you can coll my.

Greetings Henk

[Oracle 0]

I am surprised that I missed this thread! I have heard of Mayfair Carriage Company...evidently they were in Willesden in North West London but I have no record of them bodying any Buicks, though nearby Lendrum & Hartman did in 1931 (bodies in green), Grosvenor Carriage Company and Carlton Carriage Company.

Note it's a McLaughlin-Buick 1931 Series 60 serials and engine numbers ran: #184801 TO # 187873; ENGINE SERIALS: # 2568141 TO # 2745420; OSHAWA PRODUCTION STARTED JUNE 1930.

The fact that there is a German plate siggested that this was an import through General Motors GmnH in Berlin, which assembled Chevrolets at the time though for not much longer! Could someone have imported the chassis and sent it to London for bodying? Lendrum & Hartman Ltd of London, the Buick Concessionaires in the UK by 1931 imported McL-Buick chassis and then sent them to Antwerp for Carrosserie Van den Plas (Belges) bodywork to be fitted, then sent back to London. I know that a long wheelbase 1931 Vauxhall-built Chevrolet ended up in the Low Countties, with a taxi-style body, so anything is possible!

[DaveCorbin 7]

Dear Henk:

The number you give is 1(Flint plant code) 2,422,95X (where X is another digit). That would match for a 1931 car. A325 is probably a gear ratio code.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Oracle 0]

For some reason I could mot see the attached photos.

David

[Oracle 0]

The numbers I have quoted for engine serials are for Flint-built units imported into Canada.

[henk 0]

David,

I don't understand your suggestion about the engine no. good enough.

I think it is a chassis or frame no. from 184801 to 187873 what is used for export cars to Canada. Because from Canada it is easier and cheaper to exporting.

What do Mc laughlin with the other cars no. are that also in the 6 numerical code.

And can you tell me ware the put them, my no. are written in a torsion bar an the front of my car leftside when you stand before. I had a picture of it and show you.

I have also same exposition from a article of Mayfair carriage I don't the name of this book.

And an picture with bodywork from Mayfaire and Buick its the same as my car, 3nd edition standard catalog of Buick 1903-2004 from John Cunnell.

and I hope now 2 good pictures.

Greetings Henk

[henk 0]

I trying to place 2 pictures, their are things easier

[henk 0]

I am still learning, but I don't now what dit rong

[henk 0]

I don't now the name of book picture 3 it wash an encyclopedia of coach building writing by Martin Walter.

Picture 2 are from 70 Years of Buick written by George H. Dammann 1973 isbn 0-912612-04-5

Ther are also information on the Forum "general" page

The German Buickclub have E mail back they don't nothing about this car.

I think it's sure that Mayfair makes my car but way, that I want to now.

Greetings Henk

[Dandy Dave 814]

After you down load the pictures, you need to edit them for size. It appears you sent them to large and they are being down sized after they are loaded. Dave!

[henk van der veen 10]

I am back on this forum it wash a difficult thing to loggin and I do now testing.

soon I have same questions.

Greeting from Holland

Henk van der Veen

[1939_Buick 361]

Welcome back ; I guess your AACA Forums - View Profile: henk in a previous life

Peter G can sort out log in issues with the new software as threads here Forum Questions - AACA Forums Peter G has done a very good job in getting the new software to work

Edited September 18, 2009 by 1939_buick
spelling (see edit history)

[jscheib 290]

Henk,

I am also glad you are getting back into the forum. I took this opportunity again to look at the photos and I am wondering if the car in the second photo above (page 134 of the book I believe) is actually your car (with a different color scheme) or one similar. But I think you have hood louvers. Perhaps we could find where that photo was taken and go from there. It is a shame there is not much history of Mayfair regarding who they built these cars for.

For certain, you have a custom bodied Buick that is unique, and hopefully we will yet find its past ownership history. And this is likely the place it will happen.

Looking forward to seeing you in Hershey. Remember it si Chocolate Field CQ 5 to 9.

John

[jscheib 290]

Sorry, I guess that should have been picture 3.

John

[henk van der veen 10]

I hope Dave Corbin can answer my questions,

whan, like, my car in parts exported from U.S.A. to Amsterdam to assembly.

Are that complet with an electric wiring. You now my car are coachbuilding in U.K. what you think are this car with original Buick U.S.A. electric wiring or U.K. wiring.

That are also for the steps between de fenders, I can't find out the name for this part.

The steps now, are not original Buick.

are both of this parts original from Buick in the kit, or are this from make U.K.

I hope Dave or someone alse can answer this questions.

I work on the translating of a Dutch artikel from the Queen Wilhelmina cars, I think it are right that this cars are not owned bij the Queen, but she used them.

I take it with me to Hershey.

henk

[pepcak 13]

There is a little bit about Mayfair Carriage at COACHBUILD.com • View forum - Mayfair Carriage

[jscheib 290]

Henk,

I suggest you post on that Coachbuilt Forun, a brief history and photos, as that should be a good area for research as to what Mayfair custom bodies still exist.

John

[DaveCorbin 7]

Dear Henk:

It's good to see you back. I will be at Hershey this year. I will be at the BCA tent on duty 10AM to noon on Thursday and wiil be there at other random times. Also, I will be at the SAH tent about 100 meters away at random times. Bring all the numbers that you can find on the car with you and we'll see what we can find.

Did you see the Bugle article about what was supposed to be Queen Wihelmina's car? The owners (especially Mrs. P) should take a bow for their efforts to get the history of that car right. Let's see what we find about yours!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[DavidAU 63]

The book, " Coachwork on ROLLS-ROYCE 1906~1939" by Lawrence Dalton has a small section on The Mayfair Carriage Co showing photos of five different Rolls Royce cars that were bodied by Mayfair.

One of the cars shown in these photos, a Foursome Drophead Coupe built on a 20/25 Rolls Royce chassis is, apart from the obvious Rolls Royce fitments, nearly identical

The book has a small description of the Company as follows,

The Mayfair Carriage Company, originally The Progressive Carriage Company of Kilburn, London when established in 1920, changed its name in 1929. In the 1930,s Mayfair was one of the major coachbuilding companies mounting bodies on most of the more expensive British chassis. After the Second World War they continued as body builders for commercial vehicles until 1959 and finally ceased trading in the early 1970's.

David

[jscheib 290]

David,

Thanks for that info. I think what Henk is looking for is some way to find who had the car built or the first purchaser. It seems that Mayfair either did not keep records or they were lost when the company ceased operations. And, of course, the records were probably not as good at Buick as RR where they still apparently know who purchased each chassis originally, and possibly what coach builder did the body.

John

[DavidAU 63]

Yes you are right, there are comprehensive records of every Rolls Royce made, who built the body, all the part numbers, original owner where possible, date of purchase, even original number plate numbers.

All these records have been passed on to the Rolls Royce Enthusiasts Club in England and The Rolls Royce Club of America and as they have been collecting information for many years there is a possibility that a lot of the old coach builders records may have also been passed on to them. It may be worth a call to these clubs to see if they hold any of Mayfair's records and what is available.

David