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Paul Falabella

2007 Hershey Show Sat.10/13

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geez...and I'm prepping a 1983 VW Rabbit for the AACA show scene next year!

It is all relative to what cars you grew up with and first drove...sure I like to look at all the old cars...but the first car I drove was a 1980 Datsun 310 GX...would love to find one now! I would also appreciate to see someone's nice original or restored Yugo...what a task that would be!!

cars from the 80's is not an issue with AACA or the Hershey show this year...

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alsancle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The supermarket crack was incendiary and not what I was trying to say so I deleted it. I think what I'm trying to say is that it might not be bad idea to stop the 25 year window now and make 1982 the cut-off. It's impossible to be everything to everybody. </div></div>

It's a lost cause trying to explain anything to the owner of a Wal-Mart lot car no matter how old the owner is. They have taken over the hobby, and every year there is another wave of cars pushing the PreWarCars and their owners out. I wonder if the Hershey Region has members that just stoped working on the meet because of the Wal-Mart era car owners attitudes. Me Me Me My car is 25 years old serve me.

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My Region President won a Senior with a 1982 Chrysler Imperial Frank Sinatra Edition, so at least one was there, and this car is a nice, all original car.

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It seemed to me that there were way more spectators at Hershey this year than last year. I don't know how that compares to years past, as I started going last year.

Forgive me for the following sentence structure and taking this discussion out into left field, but....

I was born in 1960, so I qualify as among the last of the Baby Boom generation. As most of my peers are now coming around to the peak potential years for AACA involvement (As a group they now have enough maturity, time and money to get very active...even though I started way earlier than normal), I wonder what impact that my peer group has had recently and is going to have on the hobby.

The baby boom generation has caused... shall I say... problems... everywhere we have gone. We overcrowded schools as kids, we caused massive headaches in about every other thing we got involved in due to our sheer numbers.

I think AACA is about to see a massive growth of membership. The old car hobby is growing in my area and I suspect that it will grow elsewhere as well. As long as we recognize the problems (or shall I say potential) that we could see in large increases in attendance and membership in the coming years, we will see the hobby get better and better. As a group, we do have to work harder to be accomodating, receptive, and well prepared. My generation will have the interest and money to get involved in the old car hobby. Yes, I know that some of them are into the street rod scene, but if given the proper reception, I think you will see more of them enjoying a future with AACA. We have to continue to accept the concept of the rolling 25 year old rule. That is important to continue to be receptive to new membership.

I think the answer to problems at Hershey are to do the best with the real estate available for the event. Plan well, work the plan, admit problems when they happen, work to correct them, and always be receptive to new ideas. Somebody will have a good idea every now and then. Keep listening, and keep working together to better the hobby.

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Guest my3buicks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alsancle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The supermarket crack was incendiary and not what I was trying to say so I deleted it. I think what I'm trying to say is that it might not be bad idea to stop the 25 year window now and make 1982 the cut-off. It's impossible to be everything to everybody. </div></div>

It's a lost cause trying to explain anything to the owner of a Wal-Mart lot car no matter how old the owner is. They have taken over the hobby, and every year there is another wave of cars pushing the PreWarCars and their owners out. I wonder if the Hershey Region has members that just stoped working on the meet because of the Wal-Mart era car owners attitudes. Me Me Me My car is 25 years old serve me. </div></div>

AND EXACTLY WHAT IS KEEPING YOU AWAY FROM THE SHOWS?????????

Why is it pushing the old car owner out?? Do your old cars still run? if so, I can't see any reason that they can't be on the showfield other than the narrowminded attitude of the owner. Oh, I forgot, your car was ALWAYS old, right.

I spent more time looking at the old ones pre-war than I did the newer ones. I have never owned anything older than a 53, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to, but if my mind narrows the older I get, or is it the older the car I own gets, then maybe I will stick to the Wal-mart parking lot ones. Top down driving home from Hershey at 75 MPH completed a spectacular weekend. There is something to be said for modern iron ; )

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post-30591-1431379520_thumb.jpg

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a lost cause trying to explain anything to the owner of a Wal-Mart lot car no matter how old the owner is. They have taken over the hobby, and every year there is another wave of cars pushing the PreWarCars and their owners out. I wonder if the Hershey Region has members that just stoped working on the meet because of the Wal-Mart era car owners attitudes. <span style="font-weight: bold">Me Me Me</span> My car is 25 years old <span style="font-weight: bold">serve me.</span> </div></div>

And among those two groups you've defined, the "Wal-Mart cars" and <span style="font-style: italic">Deserving Ones</span> (for lack of a better term), which are the ones insisting that the other doesn't deserve to be around <span style="text-decoration: underline">them</span>? "Me Me Me" indeed!

Nobody's being "pushed" anywhere. If self-absorbed people are judging the company of others they've attracted as beneath them, so be it. Their loss. The rejected ones just didn't find what they thought they did in our community. frown.gif

And (unfortunately) the club's loss as well.

And (worst of all) the early car's loss. So many people who could've been otherwise exposed to them before they their owners pass on. Oh well! It'll keep the street rodders happy. sick.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And (worst of all) the early car's loss. So many people who could've been otherwise exposed to them before they their owners pass on. Oh well! It'll keep the street rodders happy. sick.gif </div></div>

The rodders go after the old stuff because they have taste.

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I usually post over in the Olds forum, but I've been following this thread with great interest, so here's my $0.02 on the newer cars. Since I didn't attend Hershey & contend with the apparent logistical issues, I speak more from my own experience & observations regarding new cars in our hobby as a whole.

Let's face it, a substantial portion of this hobby is driven by nostalgia. I think many hobbyists out there initially get into the old car hobby in part through a desire to recapture a certain special time in their lives when things were perhaps simpler, better, & more carefree. A car from a certain point in one's life can stir some powerful memories- we've all seen that happen at shows. Compared to something static like a photo, or something nebulous like an old song, a car takes people back in time in a manner that very few other things can duplicate.

The elephant in the room is that there are few people alive today that grew up & had significant interactions with pre-war vehicles. Consequently, I think the nostalgic appeal for them is relatively low. That's not to say that these cars have no market or value- there will always be enthusiasts who appreciate the horseless carriages, the brass cars, the genuine classics & other pre-war vehicles for their inherent attributes & charm. However, those who longed to recapture their glory days of dating in dad's Maxwell have long since left this earth.

I had a chance to look at a copy of Hemmings that was probably from the early '70s & was blown away by the number of truly vintage cars in its pages. Where did they all go? Are they all stashed-away in museums? Are they all street rods? Are the owners really, REALLY keeping them away from shows because there are too many newer cars there? Just where are all those old cars???? Or, (sadly) are they languishing in garages & storage buildings because the owners who restored them & loved them have passed-on & the heirs don't quite know what do do with them?

I sometimes wonder if we'll see a similar phenomenon with less-popular postwar cars over the next 25 years or so. I often find myself sitting at a cruise with my '61 Olds & the only people that foam at the mouth over the car are those at least 60 years old!

Vintage car owners are doing themselves & their hobby a terrible disservice if they adopt an attitude that newer cars are somehow unworthy of sharing a show field. If anything, as the nostalgic appeal of a car fades, its owner has an obligation to keep that car in the sunshine as much as possible to show the public that there's a lot more to the old car hobby than 60's muscle cars & rods. Furthermore, it's vital that the hobby continues to attract new blood, & many of those who take their first plunge into old cars will do so not with a pre-war car, or even a tri-five Chevy, but with a car that's special & meaningful to their own circumstances.

I was born in 1967 (I'm no kid....) & missed out on most of the great cars that are hot collectibles today. Only as some of these cars were being driven into the ground by high schoolers in the early 80's did I have a chance to experience them in their faded glory. Otherwise, people in my generation & beyond grew up with downsizing, emission controls, gas crunches, & the 55-mph speed limit. People currently in their 20's have had even less exposure to the older cars.

For a Gen Xer, I suppose I'm somewhat of an anachronism in that all of my cars are older than I am. Nonetheless, I very much enjoy seeing cars from the 70's & 80's at shows, especially if they're stock. So many of those cars were considered throwaway items back then that it's a real treat to see one that's restored, (or more likely well-preserved.)

I attended a cruise recently where somebody brought a 1975 AMC Pacer. The owner practically needed crowd-control barriers to handle all the people that wanted to see the car & talk to him. Why? In addition to not seeing a Pacer in years, I'd guess that just about everybody knew somebody back then that had one! The enthusiasm over that Pacer was amazing, & if that's what it takes to get people exposed & interested in the old car hobby then I'm all for it.

Start restricting these cars & you're cutting the hobby off at the knees. You never know, the guy with the '81 Skylark could have his grandpa's '53 Skylark on blocks in the garage. Discourage him enough & he'll leave the snooty antique people in disgust & turn it into a street rod.

I could certainly see myself acquiring a pre-war car someday, but since I seldom see unmodified examples, I don't know what to look out for, what to ask, where to get parts, etc. If the cars & owners are staying away, few are going to be interested in them.

We owe it to ourselves & to our hobby to be advocates & ambassadors of restoring, preserving, & presenting the wonderful array of cars that we all admire. Start turning people away & we'll be seeing an awful lot of street rods in the next generation.

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61Oldsguy stole my thunder completely! Great, exactly on the money post.

Old cars have also all but gone from local shows too, and I know it's due to the reasons stated above

I have been saying for years that as people age and can no longer do the shows, pass away, etc...the interest in that era of vehicle wains.

For the club to survive, the 25 year rule must be kept. Each year, this allows new members to get involved.

I remember all too well when I started showing my former Superbird in AACA (in 1995) that many members saw these musclecars as simply "used cars". They did not want these cars or the field at AACA meets. I did not let that deter me, but I can see how others could feel slighted.

Back to Hershey. It's a great meet, but it's size is not only an attraction...but a noose. I think the folks that run Hershey do a great job and are owed a dept of thanks. Thanks.

That said, I think one small way to help ease space at the meet is to get rid of the non-judged class. Getting an award from Hershey is like winning the Daytona 500 and having a showfield that is so tight makes it tough on judges, owners and spectators.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt M, PA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Old cars have also all but gone from local shows too, and I know it's due to the reasons stated above

I have been saying for years that as people age and can no longer do the shows, pass away, etc...the interest in that era of vehicle wains.

</div></div>

Yep, there's no interest an any of that old junk. They were practically giving it away over at the Lodge during the RM auction. I'll help you to understand what's really going on. Everybody with the pre-war stuff now goes to other shows and is active in other clubs. There are 10 times more concours events now then 20 years ago. Those events have somewhere near zero post-72 cars at them. That's fine, the AACA will fill the needs of the 84 k-Car wagon collector.

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most of the cars in the DPC classs would be there anyway and just result in more cars to judge. They were already parked off to the side in hay field, not the main show field.

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I'm not sure if your answer was tongue in cheek but if not..the prices for the brass era stuff were for the most part were way over the estimates! Not just the Limited!

We are starting to see a resurgence of brass cars in AACA and certainly brass car prices have never been stronger. Interest waining? Not from what we have seen! Naturally, we still have a challenge in getting cars to show versus tours but we are working on them both.

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Steve, Will any thought be given to a second Show Field enterance for early cars and Race Cars? The Freeway Cloggers are designed to sit in line and enjoy their own company.

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It would appear that the current show field may always be subject to access problems for the forseeable future. The road that borders the show field is a public road and most likely cannot be closed so that both lanes could be used for show cars. For the last two years I have always had to stop and wait for traffic to pass before I could make the left turn out of the Giant Center lot onto this road.

This single file access and waiting for traffic to pass will always be a challenge to the Hershey Region when trying to keep traffic moving. While this is not the biggest reason for the backup of show cars this year, it is an underlying cause for delays. Most major events try their best to make sure traffic can only make right turns into or out of large parking areas. In most cases, making a left turn involves crossing a lane of traffic coming the other way which almost always means having to stop and wait. With a lot of vehicles even a very short stop & wait creates a domino effect on the line of traffic that can add up to hours of waiting in line.

This is probably the reason why traffic seemed to move faster when the car show was in front of the Giant Center even with more show cars (ie no public roads with oncoming traffic and lots of right turns.)

Oh well, should be interesting to see how Hershey Region can overcome these challenges associated with the current show field.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve Moskowitz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure if your answer was tongue in cheek but if not..the prices for the brass era stuff were for the most part were way over the estimates! Not just the Limited!

We are starting to see a resurgence of brass cars in AACA and certainly brass car prices have never been stronger. Interest waining? Not from what we have seen! Naturally, we still have a challenge in getting cars to show versus tours but we are working on them both.

</div></div>

The sarcasm was directed as this notion (by more than one poster) that the old stuff was all wasting away in storage. Gradually losing it's popularity (except to be rodded, of course) as the 100 year old owners kicked the bucket. All pre-1960 automobiles are currently bringing record prices. You'll note from the auction prices that pre-1910 cars are bringing obscene money:

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResults.cfm?SaleCode=HF07

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Quote: "The road that borders the show field is a public road and most likely cannot be closed so that both lanes could be used for show cars."

Charlie that road (Hockersville) was closed for the entire day for the show car entrance and exit.

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Have you seen a recent issue of The Horseless Carriage Gazette? That HCCA magazine has had a huge upgrade since I last saw it, guess we know were all the brass cars are.

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Maybe the reason the older people complain about the newer cars is because AACA keeps changing their policy. It was 1929 and older back in the 60's; then they said they one allow one model year every 2 years, but, definitely stop at 1940.

At that time another national car club started up to take the newer cars (1941 and up). This new club took off very well. I had a 41 Chevy and joined that club. AACA saw the $$ and decided to change the philosopy again to go 25 years old.

Wonder when the HCCA will start allowing newer cars after 1915 since they will certainly die out soon.

Why stop at 25 years old? I like a lot of the 2007 cars and I am sure many other people would like to "see" them also. After all who has seen all the new models? I suggest that all cars of all years be allowed, then anyone who likes cars will be happy. It would be interesting if a new car could score enough points to get 1st.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At that time another national car club started up to take the newer cars (1941 and up). This new club took off very well. I had a 41 Chevy and joined that club. AACA saw the $$ and decided to change the philosopy again to go 25 years old. </div></div>

All of this was done and over with before I got out of junior high school. I'll be 50 in April. Today you'd have to be over 70 to have actively opposed any of these changes within the club. At that you would've been about 25 years old at the time, and probably not exactly the voice of God within the club.

There are hundreds of car clubs in the U.S. If there isn't a club exclusive enuogh for the owner of any car, they are free to start their own. (I used to belong to a club that defiined itself to a single <span style="text-decoration: underline">motor</span>, <span style="font-style: italic">The Slant Six Club of America</span>.) The AACA is a big tent group that supports the <span style="text-decoration: underline">whole</span> hobby. I feel sorry for people who do not understand the implications of undermining that, especially when they implicitly demand to do so out of their own automotive prejudices.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote: "The road that borders the show field is a public road and most likely cannot be closed so that both lanes could be used for show cars."

Charlie that road (Hockersville) was closed for the entire day for the show car entrance and exit. </div></div>

Ron, thank you for correcting me on that!

I am puzzled as to why there was traffic on that road when I was trying to make the left turn onto it if it was closed.

It appears that some traffic snuck or was let through.

This has happened to me personally the last two year running so I though because of the traffic that the road was open. My mistake.

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I know this will open up a can of worms, and this is no disrepect to the women of our club who like aq setdown breakfast, but the picture below shows how one (or two smile.gif ) can easily miss the long lines at the show field.......

post-31395-143137952089_thumb.jpg

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hwellens</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the reason the older people complain about the newer cars is because AACA keeps changing their policy. It was 1929 and older back in the 60's; then they said they one allow one model year every 2 years, but, definitely stop at 1940.

</div></div>

The "older people complain" is misconception. I just turned 43. I was in high school in the early 80s and my friends and I thought that the new cars at the time were complete POS. Everybody was in to the 60s stuff.

Successful clubs work over the long haul because all the members share a common interest that bind them. It will be very interesting to see what the common interest is between the guy with the 32 ford and the guy with the 82 Chevette.

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The older cars are still about and recycle from collections onto the market. And there must certainly be more , many more in driveable condition now than when I was fortuately able to visit your country in 1980. I walked past many cars then in collections now dispersed, which here I would have spent a day imprinting every detail to memory.

The reasons people like their particular car should always be interesting, even when that car could never be your obsession. If every man wanted the same old car or the same spouse there might be a world war to the last standing.(tongue in cheek, of course). We must always respect people's right to their own interests. And while different ages and types fit together well in local clubs, there is merit in having events for specific types and eras. It seems that HCCA does this well. I confess that I had been a member of AACA for some years when I was guest of a friend at the 1980 Glidden. And Antique Automobile, which used to have fascinating features on such as Richlieu, the Lever engine of the Elcar, and the work of Miles Harold Carpenter, but had become full of show pictures of late model cars which had never fascinated me when I was a kid as had the cars of the 20's and earlier that were still in daily use on the road here till the late 50's. I had paid a life membership for HCCA, and while at Auburn then the board of ACD had accepted my suggestion and created a paid life membership. It really was a (beep) pest of a process sending annual dues through the banking system, and I confess that then I was so disappointed to see cars of the 30's at the Glidden, ( and trailered there ), that I just never renewed my membership again. Nevertheless, I was enlightened on that trip by three notable people. When I visited Joe Kaufmann, the Duesenberg specialist who was then restoring a Mercer 6 for a friend, I found that Joe had sold his own Duesenberg, but kept two T Fords, which he explained were the most enjoyable cars for tours. Then Ralph Buckley told me that a restored 34 Ford V8 phaeton would buy the best L-head Mercer Raceabout in the world then, because the age group of people who had money to spend on the hobby then had been in college when the early Ford V8 came on the market. Ralph left me to stay with Fred Hoch, and Fred took me for a ride in a low mileage unrestored 1910 T Ford, and explained how that car would be destroyed by restoration, that its value and interest was that it was a well preserved example of the way it came from the factory.

It really has merit in some events to separate interests by category, particularly large events which people come to from vast distances. It is not that any category is superior to any other; but it does give people the ability to see more easily what really concerns them.

I hope I can make the opportunity to go to Hershey some day.

Regards, Ivan Saxton

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