Young people in hobby

[caf]

I know much has been written about the lack of young people in the hobby and how younger folks prefer customs or hot rods as we used to call them. This weekend I went to a local car show, not real big- abut 500 cars and I paid particular attention to the car owners. I was surprised to notice that most of the participants weren't particularly young. There was more grey hair than a retirement home and I saw three Walkers( the kind you push and hold on to to stay upright). It looks like the rod folks are in the same boat with the antique people, the only young ones were looking, not driving!!

[elcamino72]

I'm 26 years old and have been involved in the hobby since I was a child. I have several collector cars/trucks and I enjoy them all. I have been showing a 1972 El Camino that my father and I restored since 1998 at various hot rod shows from Charlotte to Detroit to Allentown, Pa. I also have a 1959 Chevy Apache with a 402cu big block and I just finished some preservation efforts on a 1956 Mercedes 190SL that I'll be debuting at Hershey on Saturday.

The hobby, both modified and stock cars/trucks, is overwhelmingly dominated by older individuals however, I know several individuals who are my age that are interested in and own old cars.

I think a large problem is that the new cars are so readily availible that alot of the younger generations never had the opportunity or the desire to work on an older vehicle. Every year that this trend continues the less and less amount of "drivers" or "mechanics" we'll have for the older collector vehicles.

I love the hobby and am 100% devoted to it. With that said, I have met more terrific people through the hobby than any other way, hands down!

[MCHinson]

Keep encouraging the young people. I got into this hobby when I was 25. My local AACA Chapter was made up of great older folks who encouraged me and my family. We still have a lot of nice older folks in the chapter. I am now 46 (so I am sort of the middle generation, some younger, some older).

While I have a lot of older friends now, I still try to encourage younger folks to join. Our chapter is still signing up young families. We are not growing super fast, but we are signing up more young people than we are losing to funerals.

As the younger generation reaches the point that they have a little bit more disposable income, they will buy some of those old cars that become available as the earlier owners get too old to enjoy them.

[FomocoService]

I'm 29 and have a few cars as well as own a restoration shop restoring cars back to original. No Rods for me.. there's plenty of people who do that now.

In my area, there's very few in my age group that have old cars.

[Guest sparky65]

I am 23 so we young guys are out there. I have found the biggest problem is money. We don't have as much disposable income and all the older guys with a ton of money drive the prices through the roof. This means that if you get an old car it is probably the only car you will have for a while. So instead of restoring it the focus is on making it drivable, reliable, comfortable or safe.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: caf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know much has been written about the lack of young people in the hobby and how younger folks prefer customs or hot rods as we used to call them. This weekend I went to a local car show, not real big- abut 500 cars and I paid particular attention to the car owners. I was surprised to notice that most of the participants weren't particularly young. There was more grey hair than a retirement home and I saw three Walkers( the kind you push and hold on to to stay upright). It looks like the rod folks are in the same boat with the antique people, the only young ones were looking, not driving!! </div></div>

I think the age of participants at some car shows depends greatly on the manufacturer of the vehicle.

I was at a brand specific show a couple of weekends ago.

There were about 1,000 cars on the show field and somewhere between 10,000-15,000 spectators.

The average age of the show car owners was in the low to mid 20's age group as were the spectators.

There were a couple of gray haired people on the staff and judging (I was one) and that was about it.

Certain brands of vehicles attract a young demographis and others not so young.

Unfortunately, sometimes those events with the younger demographic also attract less mature people which

can be a challenge when it comes to their conduct.

[MarkV]

I think that there is a lack of interest for a couple of reasons, First, the money or percieved cost of restoration, people automatically think that they have to dump 10 grand into a paint job second, the cost of a car, many common models are commanding rip off prices and finally the lack of disposable funds and the inability of some 'classic car owners' to inspire young people and encourage them instead of shunning them in the fear that there might be a fingerprint on their car! I am 19 and the cars of the 40's are my favorite, and they must be original! No hot rod crap or modified junk! (sorry!) Also, I own the cars in my sig. below the '21, '41 and the '78 I was in the right place at the right time as they belonged to family. But the '48 and the Mustang I had to buy at a higher cost and the benefits far outweigh the cost! I will never sell any of them because they have sentimental value, but, I always tell people that having my 5 old cars is cheaper than having one new one! And people always tell me that you must have money to have old cars and I reply that I DONT have money because I have old cars!

[r0ckstarr]

I am 28, and have been into old american iron since I was a really young kid. My father used to take me to the drag strip when I was barely old enough to know what was going on around me.

I have a website (www.american-muscle.net) where we have about 80 members in the forums that are interested in old cars, and also fall into the same age bracket as myself. Most of them younger than myself.

Along with what has already been said, I think the main problems with getting the "younger" crowd into the old car hobby are 2 things:

1. Movies like "The Fast and The Furious". After seeing those movies, the kids think that they can slap a giant muffler on their mother's 1986 Nissan Sentra and outrun Vipers and Grand Nationals.

2. Barrett Jackson. Need I say more? Because of Barrett Jackson, some people think that rusty old Nova in their backyard is now worth 25 grand as it sits. This makes it hard for the younger crowd to get their hands on an older car.

[FJD2004]

I'm a little older than most of the guys here (43) but I grew up in the antique car hobbby and never cared much for street rods but always appreciated the work that goes into building them. I dropped out of the hobby - (but always made it to Hershey - this year making it consecutive year number 35) after my kids were born but got back into it when they got excited seeing grandpa's old cars and wanting to ride in them. So I bought a '71 Buick GS with air and now enjoy going to local car shows and cruise nights with my wife and 2 girls. It is a nice presentable car that drives great and didn't cost a lot of money but is not a show car. So people can get into the hobbby if they buy right.

[57plymouth]

Here's my view, but you won't like it!!

I'm 31. I have been working on my 57 Plymouth since I was 15. I am now at the point where I want it to be restored correct, not just a nice cruiser like it has been. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to continue to drive the wheels off it. I put 5-7000 miles per year on the car. But I am only now at the stage where I can afford to spend real money on it. So since I am now planning a frame off restoration for the car I am gathering information on what is right and wrong with the car as it sits. This is why I have been hangining out on this forum and why I joined the Plymouth Owner's Club. I want information on how to restore my car correctly.

With that in mind, I went to my first points judged style show. I have been to hundreds of local shows and have piles of trophies, but I have not gone to a points style show before this summer.

Since I didn't care about winning, I only wanted info, I asked a lot of questions of the judges about what is right and wrong. Most of the judges were very helpful and friendly. Some didn't know a lot of specifics about my particular year model, which is okay because I didn't expect all of the judges to know everything about every car. Some judges were out and out jerks. One told me that I "should already know what's wrong with the car, so go away," or "you are just a hot-rodder trying to ruin the car."

That attitude will likely run me out of the POC permanently. I want to enter the car in it's first AACA judged show in the spring at AutoFair. If that attitude is what I can expect to find, I will not join the AACA or show there. I know I am just one man, but I have friends that I will tell.

If the attitude is that the judges are holy men that are not to be spoken to, young guys will not want to participate. It is much harder to restore a car than modify one. If a younger man is interested in restoring a car, the management of the AACA should want to help out, not chastize.

Think about this; it has already been stated here that most people with restored cars are older. When the older men are dead, who will be the next to have the cars? If there is no knowledge base on what is correct, that information is gone forever. So, any younger guy interested in restoring a car should be taught as much as he can absorb so future generations can see restored cars instead of only modified cars.

Also, Barret Jackson is ruining the hobby. Shill buyers running up prices on a few cars is running up prices on every rusty old heap in the back yard. Trust me, I have seen this personally. I have made offers and been told "did you see that auction on TV? This car is worth a lot of money." Sure, your rusted to death four door 57 Plymouth is worth $10K just because a restored 57 Fury in immacualte condition sold for $20K. Right, whatever you say.

Like it or not, attitude will kill this hobby. The older generation must be willing to help the younger generation learn. Arrogant judges, stand-offish owners, and greedy sellers will put a lot of good cars in junkyards over time.

[Guest ZondaC12]

After reading a lot of discussions like this I wondered what it would be like bringing my 38 to school spring of senior year, as it would be roadworthy in time for that.

Everyone went nuts. A friend orchestrated a "senior skip day party/barbecue" at a local town park one day and I brought it there and everyone wanted to sit inside and check out the car. It seems like being exposed to it up close like that really generates at least some kind of interest. Hell I was 13 years olf when the Fast and The Furious came out. A year earlier my dad brought the '79 Triumph Spitfire home from his parents house where it sat since I was born, and got it back running again. I was sitting in class drawing up ideas of how to "rice out" that thing!!!!! The movie influenced me too. Then fast forward a few years and I work on this thing, the novelty of how different everything is with this car yanked me away from the import-tuner stuff quick (not that I ever was too interested in it in the first place).

But I guess it goes along with whats been said here, if owners are too tightly wound with protecting their vehicle at public shows and dont give people an up-close look, then the interest won't hit them.

[Barry Wolk]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 57plymouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With that in mind, I went to my first points judged style show. I have been to hundreds of local shows and have piles of trophies, but I have not gone to a points style show before this summer.

Since I didn't care about winning, I only wanted info, I asked a lot of questions of the judges about what is right and wrong. Most of the judges were very helpful and friendly. Some didn't know a lot of specifics about my particular year model, which is okay because I didn't expect all of the judges to know everything about every car. Some judges were out and out jerks. One told me that I "should already know what's wrong with the car, so go away," or "you are just a hot-rodder trying to ruin the car."

That attitude will likely run me out of the POC permanently. I want to enter the car in it's first AACA judged show in the spring at AutoFair. If that attitude is what I can expect to find, I will not join the AACA or show there. I know I am just one man, but I have friends that I will tell.

If the attitude is that the judges are holy men that are not to be spoken to, young guys will not want to participate. It is much harder to restore a car than modify one. If a younger man is interested in restoring a car, the management of the AACA should want to help out, not chastize.</div></div>

Try applying to Concours events. Many think that a car has to be perfect to be in the events. That's not true at all. As a recruiter and organizer we strive to give the public a good show. That means diversity.

For the very reasons you state, I refuse to participate in a point's judged show. I like people telling me what they like about my car, not what's "wrong" with it.

I quoted "wrong" because what's "wrong" in one show is likely correct in another. Most "experts" really don't know precise answers.

Concours are simply beauty contests. At Eyes on Design a couple of years ago a Riviera won best of class even though it had visible rust bubbles on the doors and front fenders.

I'll state this once again, blaming the "rich guys" for the escalating price of cars is misplaced. How about the poor guy that sat on that Hemi for 20 years? Shouldn't the responsibility be on the seller, not the buyer? I've never heard of a buyer that would say, "I'll give you $200,000 more than your car is worth". Have you?

[MCHinson]

57 Plymouth, you should join AACA, go to Autofair, attend the judging school, and get active in the hobby as both a judge, and as an exhibitor. To best get started, go ahead and read the judging manual, which is available right here on this site.

I look forward to meeting you and your car at Autofair next year.

[57plymouth]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MCHinson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">57 Plymouth, you should join AACA, go to Autofair, attend the judging school, and get active in the hobby as both a judge, and as an exhibitor. To best get started, go ahead and read the judging manual, which is available right here on this site.

I look forward to meeting you and your car at Autofair next year. </div></div>

Does this school teach more about correct restoration? Is there an online course? What does it entail? What would I learn about proper restoration? I've read the judging manual, and it is quite nebulous as to what's right and wrong in my opinion.

I can't get to Hershey. It's too far away, and my wife only has so much vacation time every year. I have to choose my vacation time carefully. Right now, I would be more inclined to go to the Mopar Carlisle show and the Camaro shows near Atlanta than to Hershey.

If I were to join the only AACA event around here is Autofair, which is just now becoming a points show. Problem is that I am the co-ordinator for the Piedmont Performance All American Car Club for Autofair, so I show with them. Does the AACA judge cars showing with other clubs if they are AACA members?

[MCHinson]

There are AACA Judging schools held at locations throughout the country in conjunction with AACA Shows. You don't have to go to Hershey for the judging school.

There is going to be a National AACA show at next year's April Charlotte AutoFair. If you can figure out the timing, you should consider entering your car in that event as well as attending a Judging School.

Where is it that you live? Hornets Nest Region's AutoFair is a very busy event. Depending on where you live, You might also want to consider checking out the NC Region or some other Regions of AACA that are near you. Some of the smaller AACA Region Shows might be a good start for you.

If you are interested PM me with a phone number and I can give you a call and answer some of your questions better verbally than trying to explain them at the keyboard.

[MarkV]

I never thought that the fast and furious thing was 'cool' I thought that they were all pieces of junk. I have always been a fan of the 40's and before when they built great long lasting cars that were made from steel not plastic like cars of today, also because they are unique and have those big pontoon fenders! Case and point, today I was in Math class and for our attendance one of us a week gets to think of a question of the day (this is college remember!) so, mine was what is your favorite car and why? I put down the 40-48 Lincoln Continental, because it was luxury and technology far ahead of the time, and only one other person in the class put down a classic car-a '69 vette. Others put down things like BMW's, Scions (junk!), and Hummers (what is wrong with them!). I think that young people have not been inspired in the hobby and are just stuck into what is new and the 'in' thing, text messaging and talking on the phone as long as my grandma does! and that you have to go fast in the fast paced world, no one cares about the oldies any more.

[57plymouth]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MCHinson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are AACA Judging schools held at locations throughout the country in conjunction with AACA Shows. You don't have to go to Hershey for the judging school.

There is going to be a National AACA show at next year's April Charlotte AutoFair. If you can figure out the timing, you should consider entering your car in that event as well as attending a Judging School. </div></div>

What is the advantage of Judging School? What does it teach? What is the cirriculum, the rule book?

When I go to AF, I go for the show and the swap meet. It's only two days, so how long is this class? Couldn't it be taught online?

Maybe I want too much...

After dealing with those two arrogant a$$holes that judged the interior of my car and refused to talk to me, I wonder if this whole points thing is even for me. I don't want to associate with people that refuse to talk with me when they are looking at my car.

What exactly happens when my car is judged? If judges are looking at my car, I WILL ask them questions. If they will not answer they don't need to be judging my car. I would rather know now what will happen before I spend all the money to join the AACA, register for a show that I could be at for free with my current club, and drive the car up for the show and rent a hotel room.

[MCHinson]

Your quote of "spend all the money to join the AACA" puzzles me. It is $35 per year and includes a magazine worth much more than that by itself.

So, why not join the club, enjoy the magazine, participate in a local Region or Chapter, attend local shows, and don't worry about national shows unless you reach a point to where you are interested in that portion of the hobby. I was a member for over 20 years before I attended my first National Meet, and have enjoyed the club on different levels for all of those years.

[r0ckstarr]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Others put down things like BMW's, Scions (junk!), and Hummers (what is wrong with them!).</div></div>

Scion's and Hummers? Yuck!

Honestly, in 20 years do they see themselves wanting a classic Scion?

*Hey guys, check out this barn find I just got. It's an all original Scion Xb complete with Ipod hookup! I'm going to restore this classic beauty and put it in shows*

Pass....

[Guest ZondaC12]

*sigh* Yeah I cant imagine that either. I just cant. Obviously someday it WILL be very old and stuff like that but it just lacks so much character compared to the stuff from the earlier part of last century.

[poci1957]

I can appreciate some of the frustration 57 Plymouth is trying to express. I am 39 and have been involved with the hobby for over 25 years now and am not especially happy with it myself. I think by it's very nature of requiring disposable time and money the old car hobby naturally skews older--a teenager may have the time and passion but not the $$$ and a twenty or thirtysomething has other demands on his resources. But mostly, as 57 Plymouth points out, ours is often not a welcoming bunch.

Why is that? It has always been that way and I really do not know why. As a teenager in the early 1980's prewar oriented old timers were often a bit cool to me, maybe they assumed a kid must be into street rods and not appreciate their history and authenticity, or so I thought. But as I approach 40 nothing has changed, the gray hairs are still cool, I guess because I am still not old enough.

Further, speaking for myself in central IL, there are lots of local cruises and such and nobody else into improving authenticity or skills, as 57 Plymouth wishes. To him I will encourage spending the $35 to join the AACA to discover that you are not alone or stuck with annoying old timers in the Plymouth club. Join the judging program (you will be welcomed) and you can both learn, network, and be nice to the car owners. Good luck, 57 Pontiac

[MarkV]

What I find is interesting is that people will buy cars that they had or wanted in their youth, that is why you see so many 50's-70's cars years ago, like my grandpa's generation were into the 40's and before because, those were the cars that they had or wanted when they were young. Back then those cars commanded high prices (for the time) now, it is the 50's-70's cars.

[Wowabunga]

Was at Chicashaw PreWar Swap my first time this year... lots of folks buying and selling Wed/Thurs/Fri. By Friday evening 70% or so of the vendors were packed and back on the road.

On Saturday the locals showed up with their kids. I counted at least a dozen families ( with wide eyes kids ) wandering around with VERY little to look at.

I know that Chicashaw is just a swap meet and not a showing... but it was very obvious that the vendors were there for the money, or at least that's my humble opinion. Bummer the day will be when those kids grow up and go out and buy a Honda Accord with their vendor monies and go nuts with a first class frame off restoration.

[Steve Braverman]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. My father started out in the hobby as a teenager in the late 1950s. He had cars of the 30s because he thought they were neat. His first car was a 1934 Buick that he got with a blown engine, that he was going to make a hot rod out of because that was what all the kids at school were doing. Luckily he met a man only a few years older than himself that helped him to get the car running and taught him about antique cars.

He joined AACA around 1959 and has been a member ever since.

When I was a youth, and wanted to get my own car, the only thing I could afford at the time was a Corvair. This was in 1988. I thought they were interesting because they were air-cooled just like Dad's Franklin. Dad thought of it as just a used car. Today, the newest Corvair is older than the 1934 Buick was when my dad got it.

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can appreciate some of the frustration 57 Plymouth is trying to express. </div></div>

Gentlemen, I think you are narrowing your scope too much in what the AACA can do for you. The "expense" of joining the AACA can not be measured in money alone. Car shows and judging is a very small part of our hobby. You must remember that joining a small local AACA region can open up avenues of new friendships, touring places you've never seen before, in your own backyard. These new friends can put you onto car deals you never thought possible before. People/friends is where it's at.

Belonging to AACA National has many new rewards as listed on the front page of this web site. Why, just one trip a year to the now free AACA Museum is certainly worth a lot to just see the ever changing format. Researching the library for those small details you couldn't find before is now free up to a point.

May I also mention that you'll even learn something new in life if you particapate in the club. Education has no price tag. Just ask me! The AACA has taught me that any poor old farm boy can learn how to write and publish an interesting newsletter, something I wouldn't have thought possible 15 years ago. Seriously, I can not put a value on that.

You see, the more you put into a club, the more you'll get out of it!

Wayne

[MCHinson]

Wayne said it better than I did:

"You must remember that joining a small local AACA region can open up avenues of new friendships, touring places you've never seen before, in your own backyard. These new friends can put you onto car deals you never thought possible before. People/friends is where it's at."

That is what I think I have been trying to say. It was over 20 years before I attended my first National Meet. Now, I am at the point in my life that I enjoy the National Events. When I was younger, I attended local shows, local tours, local meetings, and had a great time and met many friends. Most are older than I am, but not all of them are. Local Regions or Chapters have a lot to offer to their members.

[West Peterson]

And keep in mind that this is a very large hobby, with many, many people. Just as in "the real world", everyone is different. Please don't generalize all AACA members, or all old car hobbyists, as being arrogant and not interested in you or your car. You CAN'T assume that everyone will be your best friend, but you CAN assume that you will find a best friend in the AACA, and that there will be more than enough car guys out there that will help you with your questions. Just as we are doing here.

In all fairness to judges, they have A LOT of cars to judge, and spending time answering a lot of questions is not in the cards... if they want to complete their judging duties. That does not give them permission to be rude, of course. Also remember, they are volunteering their time to judge. If you find a judge that DOES know a lot about 1957 Plymouths, ask him/her if you could talk with them later, after the judging is finished. You may get all the help you need when they are not pushed for time.

[poci1957]

Just a follow up, I have not personally judged at AACA but I have in the Pontiac Oakland Club and the judging system is patterned after AACA. In the Pontiac club the owner is not to talk to the judges about details while judging for this very reason, so maybe that was part of the issue for 57 Plymouth and he should have asked to speak to the judges later. Further, the scoring or points are not to be discussed on the field either, which seems illogical in that you do not know what is being deducted or for what reason so you can correct it for next time. Maybe that was part of 57 Plymouth's communication with the judges.

That said, however, I still stand by my concern with too many brusque attitudes in our hobby, especially to newcomers. We all need to work on being ambassadors for the hobby and try to bring in new blood, especially if we want anyone to see the benefit of restoring or preserving a car rather than modifying it and joining the street rod crowd. Here in my area it now takes a very dedicated soul to avoid just dropping in a 350 V8 and going cruising because that is all you see. The AACA seems now my only refuge for a goal of authenticity without extremes and snobbishness. Would like to hear others on this, thanks, Todd

[57plymouth]

I have several responses:

I don't need to pay membership dues in a club to find people to associate with. This dichotomy of ideals is why I am leaving many Masonic bodies, it simply isn't worth the expense to go to meetings. If I can only talk with car guys in the AACA by "buying in" then I don't need to be in.

No magazine is worth $35 per year. Don't say that the club newsletter is worth the price alone. Unless this magazine is all tech articles every month, it is not worth $35 per year.

I don't care what club it is, NCRS, Pontiac Oakland, Plymouth Owner's, AACA, or any other club; if I cannot talk to the judge while he is looking at my car, that judge needs to walk away and send over a better judge. If I am not worthy of your time when you are around my car, you are not worthy of being around my car. If you are offended that I want to talk to you, then get the #### away from my car.

[dep5]

<span style="font-weight: bold">Did your mommy tell you it was ok to interrupt your teacher while she was trying to grade your paper?</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 57plymouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 8pt">I have several responses:

I don't need to pay membership dues in a club to find people to associate with. This dichotomy of ideals is why I am leaving many Masonic bodies, it simply isn't worth the expense to go to meetings. If I can only talk with car guys in the AACA by "buying in" then I don't need to be in.

No magazine is worth $35 per year. Don't say that the club newsletter is worth the price alone. Unless this magazine is all tech articles every month, it is not worth $35 per year.

I don't care what club it is, NCRS, Pontiac Oakland, Plymouth Owner's, AACA, or any other club; if I cannot talk to the judge while he is looking at my car, that judge needs to walk away and send over a better judge. If I am not worthy of your time when you are around my car, you are not worthy of being around my car. If you are offended that I want to talk to you, then get the #### away from my car.

</span>

</div></div>

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 57plymouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if I cannot talk to the judge while he is looking at my car, that judge needs to walk away and send over a better judge. If I am not worthy of your time when you are around my car, you are not worthy of being around my car. If you are offended that I want to talk to you, then get the #### away from my car.</div></div>

Let's look at this from a judge's perspective. There are usually a ton of cars to judge in a set time. If a judge takes the time to talk to every car owner in that class, it's going to take forever to judge the cars which in turn throws everything else judging-related off schedule. I've seen this happen in Oldsmobile Club of America national judging as a meet chairman, and ended up going out on the showfield myself, clipboard in hand, at 7 PM to help those judges catch up their classes so we could tally scores and assign the proper awards to the proper cars. <span style="font-weight: bold">I didn't get any dinner that night. But those cars and owners were worthy of my time so I did the job.</span>

If I as a judge take time to talk with you, and exclude everyone else who has a car in that class, then the perception of favoritism is going to pop up. I made that mistake myself as a novice OCA judge, and hard feelings over it linger to this day, 19 years later. The guy who missed Best of Class to the other car by 5 points reminds me of it every time he sees me.

I will introduce myself and the judging team, thank the owner for bringing the car, compliment an especially nice display of support items, and wish them luck. No more than that needs be said. I also purposely stay away from the cars in the class I'm assigned to judge until judging starts. That way I can't be accused of picking the winner beforehand.

Now, 57Plymouth. I am one who believes that one should sh*t or get off the pot. I challenge you to volunteer to judge a couple shows, and I don't mean Sunday afternoon beauty contests. I'm talking points judged shows with clearly defined guidelines and standards. Wear a judge's shoes for a day. After dealing with a dozen whiny-asses like you, your tune might change.

[novaman]

I have judged at hershey before and had approx. 25 cars to judge (in a prior year least was 8 in the rain a couple years ago, 10 cars didn't show up). We as judges are told to try to limit the time to 5 min per car, generaly if taking longer you're probably nit-picking. At that rate, it would take just over 2 hours. Now, you need to add in time for the team captain to review all the car forms, mark them as to what awards they obtained, sign them, compile them by class, and (use to be by awards) now by entry number, collect the indivdual judge's worksheets, and the judge's cards for credit. That took me about 10 minutes this year. If you were judging on the far end of the field, it was pushing a 10 minute wade through the crowd to judge's administration. Then if you were my dad (roughly 5 persons behind me and timed it) a 55 minute wait to get in the door to the ladies that take care of the paperwork. I was with them (no problems with the paperwork, all my "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed) took another approx. 5 minutes. That's a three hour and 20 minute day. Just on the show field. There is also the judge's breakfast which started at 7am and we're were lined up and waiting for at 6am, which by the way we have to pay for. Then following that, the team captains (i was one this year) will go to the show field and check to verify if all thier cars are there, look for misparked cars, I talked to other team captains that were also judging cars in the same classes (the teams and classes were broke down to those taking care of the junior/senior cars and those doing preservation and repeat preservation) to make sure everyone was "on the same page". We were not allowed to return to judge's admin until after 11am to make sure cars made it onto the field. I knew there were still some coming on a few minutes after and I kept my team on the field until about 11:30 and walking the entyway to make sure no other cars for my classes entered without my knowledge. As it was, there was one a few minutes after 11 that arrived, I took care of our team's paperwork to give the guy some time to clean the car or whatever he needed to do instead of rushing right over and judging it.

So short version of a team captain's (my) day at Hershey:

Arrive at judge's breakfast at 6AM

Breakfast at 7am

after breakfast, 1/2 mile walk to show field and my classes.

Started checking on which cars were there and talking to other team captains in area.

10am start judging process, ending after admin. about 1 PM. Cars already exiting show field.

If I would have spent the time for the vehicles that didn't show would have added about another 20-30 minutes which would have push the finish time to about 1:30pm. If I remember correctly vehicles are allowed to leave at 2pm. If everyone my team had to judge showed up and I spent 5 minutes with each owner telling them about every deduction, which would require all my team members to be invovled in as they know exactly what it was for (I might know it was a defect on a door, where they know it was a dent on the door, etc.) On the days (in the past at Hershey) when the team has 20 to 25 cars to judge, if your car happened to be the last one we got to, you won't be seeing us until about the 1:20pm to 2:10pm area.

The ladies at Hershey had to handle and enter the infromation for over 1,500 cars from what I heard the attendance was to be. And they need to be done by 5pm.

[poci1957]

Well, I am certainly sorry to have said anything on this subject. I earlier criticized the old timers to side with someone who:

A. Doesn't think it is worth joining an club to meet car people and does not want to be in any AACA event unless it is for free.

B. Is irritated that I would be complementary of the fine AACA magazine and suggest it was worth the money.

C. Does not like that rules apply to the judging procedure if they are not at his instant service.

Gee, no communication problem anywhere here, sorry I said anything.

[57plymouth]

Since I am now an outcast, I doubt you will read this post.

Thank you gentlemen for showing me many things. Obviously I am not a good fit for the AACA.

I'm sure your magazine is lovely. I trust it brings you enlightenment and hope, and I am more happy that you are able to afford a periodical at the rate of $35 annually.

If I could have found ANYPLACE on this website that stated that the owner of the car cannot speak to the judge, much of the discord and bitterness this thread has tragically grown would not have taken place.

I understand that the judges are very busy and have a job to do. Perhaps the OWNERS should be more concientious by getting to the show on time, and staying until it is over. Novaman's post seems to me to imply that the owner's are rushing the judges along.

Clearly my tone of prose does not convey accurately my feelings about the car hobby. I want to LEARN, and meet other car owners. I can easily spend far too much time talking with owners and learning tips and tricks from them. I also want my car correct, but I don't give a tiny gnat's *** about trophies. Winning a $5 trophy isn't the point. I want to get it right. I've won more than my share of trophies, and they all sit around getting dusty. I really really REALLY care about dash plaques. Why? Because they prove that I've been there! I look at my dash plaques sticking on the walls in my shop and remember the fun I had, or the rain I sat through, or the time it snowed on me at a show, or whatever happened at that particular show. They are what I collect. I personally would prefer paper certificates for winners, they are easily filed and take up less space. It's not about winning, it's the experience.

Sorry I started so much anger in the forum. I only want to learn. If that is too much trouble, I guess I missed the point.

The original purpose of this thread was to discuss where the younger members are. I may be speaking out of turn again, but I think that I fit into the younger category. The younger people want to learn. Maybe the AACA should have an on-line course where we can find that knowledge. Maybe there should be some option that we can use at shows to learn about our cars instead of being chastized for trying to learn.

But what do I know, I'm a smart azz.

[novaman]

It not that the car owners are rushing the judges but there is more to the judging than just walking up to a vehicle, looking at it, write down a score and move on. There are things that ned to be done ahead of time and after the judges on the field are done looking at the cars need to do before turing in thier stuff. All needs to be done so the admin can get thier work done so the awards can be gi\ven at the banquet and not the next day.

More later . Boss just walked in.

[Guest Leonard Shepherd]

We have a 17 year old member in the Studebaker Drivers Club and he is also on this forum. His name is Matthew Burnette and he was written up in his local newspaper. Here is the link:

http://www.macon.com/194/story/160312.html

[MCHinson]

57 Plymouth,

Please consider visiting a local AACA Chapter or Region meeting in your area. I think that you are missing the point. <span style="font-weight: bold">That</span> is where you meet people who can and will teach you more about all facets of the old car hobby.

You seem to be missing the point that I have tried to convey earlier. Walking up to a judge at a National Meet and asking the judge to explain how you should restore your car is like walking up to an umpire on the field at the World Series and asking him to teach you how to play baseball. The local regions and chapters are the farm teams.... that is where you will find what you seem to be looking for.

I was a member of the club for 20 years before I ever attended the Fall Meet at Hershey. I plan to be there every year from now on.

[MCHinson]

I had a nice phone conversation with 57Plymouth. He took me up on my offer to chat by phone. I am happy to report that he is not the ogre that he might have led you to believe.

I would characterize him as a young man who has arrived at the stage of his life that he is sincerely interested in making his 1957 Plymouth a correctly restored car, but is frustrated at a lack of information available in his neck of the woods.

He is not yet ready for National Meet Competition, but he really does need a mentor who knows something about Plymouths of around 1957, who hopefully is not too far from Columbia South Carolina. Hopefully, some nice 57 Plymouth owner will be able to show him some stuff at next year's Charlotte Meet, but even better would be if we can find someone with a correctly restored 57 Plymouth that we can introduce him to before then. Anybody out there who wants to help a young man with his Plymouth?

[novaman]

I wish I could have finished my post before the boss walked in from lunch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... I don't give a tiny gnat's *** about trophies. Winning a $5 trophy isn't the point. .... I really really REALLY care about dash plaques. Why? Because they prove that I've been there! I look at my dash plaques sticking on the walls in my shop and remember the fun I had, or the rain I sat through, or the time it snowed on me at a show, or whatever happened at that particular show. They are what I collect. I personally would prefer paper certificates for winners, they are easily filed and take up less space. It's not about winning, it's the experience. </div></div>

That sounds like me. I know too many people that take car shows <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">way</span></span> too serious. They get all mad and worked up if they didn't take home a 1st place, best of show, etc. Personally, yes it is nice to take home that trophy but if a $5 trophy is what determines wether or not you enjoyed the show, there's something wrong. That attitude is one of the reasons why when I get done restoring my wagon and hdtp, they are going into the DPC class. I can put the car on the field, get my dash plaque saying I was there, give the car a quick wipe and go enjoy the show the rest of the day.

One thing you may want to do is find a local AACA region, and ask the members there who in the region is a national judge. Then ask that person if he/she would be willing to take a look at your car and point out things that you might need to correct. Most AACA national judges are more than willing to help a car owner in this manner. doing it some eveneing or saturday away from a show will actually allow that person more time to spend with you than would even possiable at a meet. My dad and I have done it for two members of my local region and we spent over an hour with each of them looking at the car, and discussing what the judges are looking for, what you as an owner need it do when you arrive, what factory documention you might need, and what to expect when the judges arrive to judge the car.

[novaman]

Glad he took you up on the phone offer. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am happy to report that he is not the ogre that he might have led you to believe.</div></div> From his posts I never took him that way. Just that he had a misconcieved notion as to the judging process and what a judge does at a national meet and the amount of time required to perform those duties.

I might be able to get him in touch with someone in central PA if that helps.