Model T 6 cyl??

[Tom Laferriere]

Hi all,

Some one sent me the text below. Any ideas on this?

I am sending you a couple of photos of a Model T Speedster because you seem to know more about them than most (I know very little).

The car is a part of a small collection at a farm in Southern Alberta, Canada. Most of the car looks normal until you see the engine. It is a T-engine that has been cut and two more cylinders have been welded or brazed on to produce a 6 cyl.

You can see where it is joined together at the rear of the block, but the head is one piece and has 'Ford' cast on it.

The car was imported from the U.S. along with some other old cars. The owner does not know much about it or who built it.

I am curious as I have never thought it was even possible to do this and what would they do for a crank or cam?

I wonder if you know how this car came about and if any others were produced with such an engine?

Any information you have would be greatly appreciated. I don't even know what year most of the parts are, but the radiator is by Brassworks.

[Mike Cullen]

I love that radiator! It must be a runner, fresh oil leaks! and a lot of them too, got the absorb-o pads under it.

[Ivan Saxton]

I notified David Dryden that there were pictures to look at. He said that there was an article on the making of just such a car in Vintage Ford magazine roughly about a decade ago. Externally it looks an interesting re-creation of Edsel Ford's 6 cyl T model hotrod, and a lot of good work has gone into it. Joining two sectioned T blocks together wouod have been a good effort; but David said the crankshaft was also welded up out of two T crankshafts. That is pretty scary if it was intended to run, because the consequences of torsional vibration might exceed the friendship of such a welded crank. Someone in the T Ford Club might like to look up the article so we can learn more directly.

Ivan Saxton

[SolidAxle]

Last I knew, Edsel Ford's original 6 cylnder Model T was is in a collection near Akron, Ohio. I did not hear that it was sold so I would assume that this car is a replica.

[oldcarfudd]

There was a car like this at the museum in Wells, ME a few years ago. They claimed it was Edsel's I think, but they called it a Model J. Seems unlikely to pick a letter before K, N, R, and S for something obviously built some time into the T's production run and after the demise of those older types.

[Ivan Saxton]

The J is properly restored now, as close as can possibly be to the way it was originaly built. It is about 20 minutes drive from where I live; and I help David by doing metal spray reclamation of original worn parts, and other machining work. (He helps be in other ways, particularly with special woodwork). The car is derivative of the N. He has been in communication with the son of the man who preserved the car for years before it went to the Ford Museum. They apparently fitted a spare body from an R or S;and with the bonnet or hood from the 4 cyl car, the proportions were just wrong. I understand that whenthe company told the museum that their cash would be limited, someone made the decision to sell off anything that did not represent standard production or similar. I think David bought it from a man who had it in Colorado.

The car was run at a national veteran car event in Toowoomba, Qld a couple of years ago; but after he had paid a large sum for an expert to fix the coils three of them promptly failed: so as it happens, I have not yet seen it run. There was problem with the coils of his 2 cyl 1904 AC, and I was able to provide new coils of better construction that fitted perfectly into the original coil box. The braided wiring harness is likely to turnup this week, and I'll get out there to see it run. And maybe the J after that.

Ivan Saxton

[nearchoclatetown]

Is the radiator core out in front just a dummie and the real core in the T looking rear where the cap is? Great project, thanks for sharing.

[1937hd45]

There was an experimental 6 cylinder T in the Ford museum back in 1968 when I first went through it. It sold at one of the auctions that came about in the 1970's and it was at Hershey in the flea market. I'm betting it is the one in Maine now.

[Ivan Saxton]

David's 6 cyl J was red when it came from the Ford Museum. The radiator is the same as N,R,and S; with the water pump mounted on it out front the same way. If there is a genuine 6 cyl "T" in Maine with the sharply pointed radiator, maybe it is Edsel,s special speedster that replaced the J.

Ivan Saxton

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Making a six-cylinder crank out of two four-cylinder cranks sounds more ambitious than "simply" welding two blocks together...

I'm under the impression that all in-line six cranks have the throws spaced at 120-degree intervals; the stock T crank has the throws spaced at 180 degrees... that would make for a lot of cutting and welding...

Maybe they just heated the crank and "twisted it" 60 degrees one way or the other to get the throws right, then welded them-up?

(Yes, I'm being silly !)

I think I have seen another (?) six-cylinder T racer, that was all-white pictured on the web within that last couple of years ?

If they worked all the "transitional gremlins" out of this conversion, it should've been a pretty hot engine...

[CarlLaFong]

Is the radiator core out in front just a dummie and the real core in the T looking rear where the cap is?

It seems to be a Livingston Super Vee

http://www.thebrassworks.net/modelt.aspx#tab8

[nearchoclatetown]

Thanks for the answer. IS the whole top the tank?

[scott12180]

In Murray Fahnestock's (sp?) book published in the 1920's, there is a short mention of an eight cylinder Model T Center Door Sedan. An Eight would be easier to do than a Six. With a little more effort, you could split one block in two and weld it to the front and back of a standard block. With the cranks at 90 degrees, the resulting configuration would be a 2-4-2, which was the same configuration that the first Packard Eights used in the early 1920's.

In Fahnestock's book, they simply put two fours back to front, but commented that the result wasn't very satisfactory.

If I had the money or facilities, I think it would be cool to build a 2-4-2 Eight cylinder Model T. The long hood would be sexy and it ought to give decent performance. I think you'd want to use a Model A crank as the T crank would be too whippy that long. Or if money is no object. . . . :-)

--Scott

Former owner of a 1913 Roadster and 1926 Coupe. Wish I had them back !