Front Caliper Upgrade

[DAVES89]

If anyone should get killed using spacers, or brake modifications, please be sure to let the rest of us know, so that we don't try that anymore. Pretty thin ground you guys are treading on. Just read all the issues others are having with the Teves brake system and now you want to make brake mods to make it worse? I think some things are made to stay stock. Just be careful!

[Guest imported_dantm4]

I'll be sure to let you know if I get killed while using spacers - where do you live so I can haunt your garage? =)

On a more serious note: where is the abs sensor?

-Dan

90' Black/Tan Coupe

[Richard S]

As I recall, there is magnetic sensor that fits into a cylinder cast into the inside of the hub that "reads" a slotted ring on the half shaft. Those impulses tell the computer whether the shaft is turning. Probably works like a magnetic pickup ignition. I don't recall it being related to the caliper or caliper bracket in any way.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

It would be interesting to see if the Malibu calipers can be used. The mounting may be different but those have 15'' wheels (from what I know).

And yeah, I'll be sure to post back and let you guys know if I die from any of my modifications

[Barney Eaton]

Sometimes I don't know when I am serious.

[Richard S]

When I was at the pull-ur-parts yard, I picked up a pair of Malibu calipers. These are single piston aluminum. When I realized that the Camaro units used twin pistons, I decided to trade these, or at least compare to see if the latter will fit. I was in the middle of this project when a neighbor complained to the City about the 3 covered cars in my driveway. So I have been engaged in cleaning the garage to make some room to show the City some progress. Two of the cars are actually very nice [93 Cutlass Supreme Convert & an 87 XJ6 set to receive my 85 Camaro 387 stroker tpi; OK the other was my son's 74 XJ6 project with small block 400 that would look pretty ratty if it were not covered], they just are not up and running yet. But I digress. I should be back to the brake project next weekend. I should have a pretty good idea if we should stick with the Aurora, move to the Malibu, or go all the way with the Camaro.

[Richard S]

I have begin the project.

Calipers: Bought front rebuilt calipers to fit a 2002 Camaro Z-28. These are the twin piston cast aluminum calper that comes with the mounting brackets from rockauto.com for about $45 each. As F-14 predicted, they fit perfectly, no drilling no problem. Doesn't he ever get tired of being right on?

Rotors: Our rotors are about 5 1/8" radius. They will work, but the Camaro calipers seem to be desiged for about 5 7/8 or so radius rotor. I don't think the Camaro rotor will work because the bolt pattern is different. Looks like the Aurora rotor comes in two sizes, an 11.06" [5.5 radius]solid and an 11.92 [6" radius] vented? I wonder if the vented rotor would fit?

Brake Line: The Camaro caliper uses a smaller fluid inlet bolt with a finer thread. The Camaro brake like is shorter than the Reatta. The Reatta steel line points skyward, and our brake line loops to meet it. The Camaro line might be made to work if the steel line were reshaped to point outboard. A better alternative would be to see if a hose shop can put the Camaro brake hose end on the Reatta line.

Wheels: I am running 17", but I think at least a 16" wheel is required to accomodate the larger caliper and rotor.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I'm anxious to hear how this turns out.

Would it be possible to get the Camaro rotors and have them professionally drilled for our 5x115mm bolt pattern? I can see it making the disc too weak around the hub though

[Barney Eaton]

Richard...great to hear an update...take picture.

Things like the difference of the lines....we have lots

of guys with ideas and once they see the problem , may have so good thoughts.

[Richard S]

I will, Barney. F-14, I may have to eat my words. When I check the rockauto.com catalogue they show the same 11.92 rotor for both Camaro and Aurora. It is Part # 56641R. The Z28 has an optional 12.1 rotor.

But this is confusing. When I look up bolt patterns at www.discountedwheelwarehouse.com/Vehicle_Bolt_Pattern_Reference.cfm,

I see that the Aurora is the same as ours, and the Z28 is 120.7mm. So how can it take the same rotor 11.92. Still, I am inclined to believe that the Aurora rotor will work for us, but would not fit the Camaro.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I'm puzzled as well...

Does the Z28 have the larger bolt pattern?

[Richard S]

I always thought most Chevys were 4 1/2. And according that website, yes. We are 114.3 and Z-28 is 120.7.

[Barney Eaton]

Like some aftermarket wheels, maybe the rotor has a dual bolt pattern. I have never seen any rotors advertised/pictured with a dual bolt pattern, but the aftermarket manufactures might try that to reduce the number of parts they carry.

[Richard S]

Nice try, Barney, but the idea of making more holes in a rotor just does not sound credible to me. More likely, one or the other of the websites is wrong. Should be easy to ross check with another website. Again, I am pretty sure common Chevy bolt pattern is 4 1/2 and the Camaro wheel will not fit our cars. But the Aurora will.

[Barney Eaton]

Prior to going metric, GM used either 4 3/4 or 5 inch bolt pattern.

Here is a site that might help

http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse.com/Vehicle_Bolt_Pattern_Reference.cfm

127 mm = 5 in

120.7 = 4 3/4

[Guest imported_dantm4]

Any word on the Malibu calipers, based off the wheel reference site it would appear they do use the same bolt pattern and a similar wheel.

-Dan

90' Black/Tan Coupe

[Richard S]

Dan, I originally planned to use the single piston Malibu calipers because they are cast aluminum and I found a set in the pull ur parts yard. However, when I saw the cast aluminum twin piston caliper on the Z-28, I decided to try that. As I say, I did a tentative bolt up, and they are perfect. Our caliper bolts fit perfectly and everything else is in the proper position. The only issues were as noted above: Brake hose and larger rotor. Using either of the two Aurora rotors, 11.92 or 12.01 should work and I know the Aurora has the right bolt pattern and fits our hub perfectly.

That leaves only the brake hose issue where the caliper end of the Reatta hose will just not work. Two choices: Wander around the wrecking yard to find a Camaro compatible hose that is as long as ours, or find a way to switch the Camaro end to our hose. One costs more, if it can be done at all; the other involves what could be a finding a needle in a haystack.

[Ronnie]

Maybe an adapter made of steel tubing to go between the steel line and the Camaro brake line would be one solution to extend the length.

These guys should be able to make anything you need for custom steel lines. They make lines for street rods.

[Richard S]

TD, you are of course correct. I emailed a company that specializes in flexible brake lines and asked them which option would be better/cheaper: To try to remove the Camaro end and put it on the Reatta line, or just get a 6" extension to go from our currect steel line to the Camaro brake line thereby making it the same length as our brake lines. We'll see what they say.

[Richard S]

I believe the brake line problem has been solved by little more than the examination and confirmation of a local expert. I took the Reatta and Camaro lines to an industrial hydraulic hose fabricator. After looking at both for moment he asked me why I would want to fabricate a new line since the caliper ends of both Reatta and Camaro hoses were sufficiently alike to interchange. The only thing that has to be changed is the fluid inlet bolt [the bolt that fixes the brake line to the caliper]. You have to use the one from the Camaro because the threads are different and the bolt is slightly longer. It is the same diamter as ours and the fluid inlet hole in the bolt will be almost where ours is. Thus we can keep our existing brake lines.

I now have all the parts and will take pictures as I work.

What You Need:

Twin Piston Cast Aluminum Calipers from 2001 [or similar] Chevy Camaro Z-28.

[fyi: rockauto.com A-1 Cardone Reman w/ Bracket b/ w/o pads was $40 each + core. Shipping is free]

Pads: Ceramic

[fyi: rockauto.com Monroe Premium Ceramic $42 - $20 rebate from Monroe.

Fluid Inlet Bolts from Camaro Brake Line

[Wrecker]

Drilled/slotted Aurora Rotors 1999 or later

[fyi: from Raceconcepts on Ebay for $75 to my door.]

Minimum 16" Wheel, though 17 would be better.

Brake Fluid, 2 quarts Dot3 [enough to flush/bleed the entire system]

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Sounds good Richard. What's your suggestion for the rears?

[Richard S]

You know, F-14, I have tried rebuilding the rear on my red 90, but was not very successfuly because there is a heave steel steel C ring that is hard to seat without scratching the piston. I lucked into a set of reman rear pistons, but have not been able to find anything reasonable since for the 90 white.

It is not so much that the rears need any improvement since they do so little stopping, its that our rear calipers are not readily available and are expensive. The key is to find another car with an emergency brake system at the caliper like ours, or at lease one with a shaft that would accept the emergency brake lever on the back of the caliper. If it had a slightly larger larger brake area, so much the better. That would involve another day wandering around the pull-ur-parts yard to see what looks interesting.

[Richard S]

BTW, I was going to take pictures of the assembly today but my wife took off with the camera. I replaced the struts and the sway bar links, and mounted the rotors, calipers and brake lines. All seems to fit perfectly. I am going to take a look at the rears to see if I need pads/rotors there, and then bleed the whole system. I will pull a front wheel and take a picture of the final product. As to labor, there is nothing different about this upgrade that you would not do if you were replacing the OEM calipers/rotors except you need that bolt from the Z-28 caliper and bigger wheels. Looking at it, 16" wheels would be to close for my comfort. If someone is familiar with the Chevy forums or wants to call the dealer, maybe we could get a part number for the Z-28 bolt. It does not come with the caliper.

[Ronnie]

Quote

The key is to find another car with an emergency brake system at the caliper like ours, or at lease one with a shaft that would accept the emergency brake lever on the back of the caliper

 

Have you taken a look at the rear caliper of a Pontiac Fiero? I had a Fiero Formula ('88 model). It had the lever to actuate the emergency brake at the back of the caliper. I would only look at the '88 GT and Formula models. They had different brakes from the '87 back. The brakes on the '88 models were larger and much better brakes.

[Ronnie]

I hate to see such a good thread dropped. I currently only have 15" wheels but if I find some reasonably priced 16" wheels I would like to do this upgrade.

What was the outcome of this project?

What parts were ultimately used?

How well did the brakes function when the job was completed?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

[jonlabree]

Could one of the experienced Brake change artists PLEASE put together a complete and through /w pictures of the brake up grade???? Please, please, please....

[Barney Eaton]

Richard S as I told F14crazy and others, get me the details and some pictures and I will get it published in the Reatta newsletter.

I believe we can also get it on www.reatta.net

You can send it to me in one shot or in pieces.

[Richard S]

I am sorry. I will get some pictures for you. I am very satisfied with the way the result looks and operates. Again, the OEM setup was well up to bringing a Reatta to a stop. However, I believe under hard continous braking such as racing or long downhill grades, the upgrade would prove far superior because of its additional braking surface and the finned aluminum's ability to transer heat. My post of 9/22 is a pretty comprehensive list of the parts I used for the upgrade, sources and general prices. I used the twin cast aluminum Z-28 caliper while F-14 opted for the Aurora setup. We both used Aurora rotors. Again the only part you have to actually find either from the wrecker or dealer is the hollow bolt that holds the brake line to the caliper. Ours has a different thread and is shorter than the one used on the Camaro. They both have the same circumference.

[Guest ChevroletR]

I see all this about the Aurora front calipers and I was wondering what the advantage was over using these calipers. More pistons? And I saw someone said I would need at least a 16'' wheel and mine is stock with the 15s. Is this still true for the Aurora calipers? Thanks

Ryan Washington

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Howdy, and welcome to the board.

You do need 16''+ wheels for the Aurora calipers. They're still single piston, fronts and rears, but you've got larger rotors and pads, and thus more contact area.

You don't need to push the pedal down as far for the same stopping (at least I noticed), more reserve power for emergency stops, less brake dust (due to you not having to work them as hard?), it's less likely to warp the rotors, and I personally like the modern look of large brakes behind exposing 17'' wheels

[Richard S]

Here are the photos of the Z-28 upgrade. Just to recap, these are 2001 Camaro Z-28 twin piston cast aluminum calipers [with bracket] with 1999 Aurora drilled/slotted rotors. The only other part required is the brake line bolt from the Camaro. Otherwise it's a bolt-up. One photo compares this with the stock parts. The parts and sources I used are in my earlier post.

[Richard S]

Obviously I am doing something wrong in posting the pictures as they are entirely too large. Sorry. 1. How do I make sure the pictures are smaller when posting them, and 2. Is there a way to fix that?

[Machiner 55]

Richard,

Try pixresizer for all your resizing needs.

[Richard S]

Phew! Thanks, John.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Those are some pretty nice looking rotors and calipers you got there Richard

[Guest ChevroletR]

And they bolt right up to the factory knuckle?

[Richard S]

Yes, everything is a bolt up, just like doing a stock job except that when you order the Camaro calipers they don't come with the bolt that attaches the brake line to the caliper. You will have to get that from a wrecker [i note that the twin piston caliper is almost non-existent in the pull your own parts yards. I am using the one from a single piston cast aluminum caliper and assuming it is the same] or the dealer. We cannot use the Reatta bolt. The only other trick is to have them accept our calipers for the core return on the Z-28 reman units. I got a pair of single piston aluminum at the yard and used those for my core, no problem.

[Richard S]

To the extent this proves to be a viable upgrade, we really owe it to you F-14. I only carried out what you started with the Aurora upgrade and your later suggestion regarding the Camaro guys.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I do appreciate my mentioning, but the credit really should go to Greg Ross. He first did the Aurora conversion. I just brought the idea back to the front page, and did the rears, and found the info about the F-body calipers.

If you've been wondering what I do at my computer late at night...you've figured it out.

I've been slow but have been able to make good progress on "Project GS". It's still going to be a while, but I plan on doing the C5 Corvette front calipers. If I can I'll do the rears too, but otherwise I'll keep the Aurora rears. I guess I will have to use the Aurora front rotors due to the fact that Corvettes have a larger wheel bolt pattern, but I came up with the idea of having our 5x115 pattern drilled into the C5 rotors. I don't know if this is feasible, or safe, but I plan on looking into it.

EXTRA CREDIT if you get C5 calipers (of which have CORVETTE casted into them), grind that down, and weld the Reatta's R logo

[Richard S]

I can imagine two possible problems with the C5 setup. First, won't using a smaller rotor with the C5 calipers put the brake pads in the wrong place with respect to the rotor? I assume the orientation of the pads in the C5 caliper is based on a rotor of Corvette dimensions, and methinks that's lots bigger than the Aurora, but in diameter and thickness. Second, you might encounter an offset problem with the wheels. Have not really looked at C5 calipers, but they must be huge fi they caught your eye. There's not a lot of room between the Z-28 caliper and the spokes of my Mustang 17s, which I think have a little more offset than the stock wheels.