Cadillac Overheating

[Ganze]

My 58 Caddy has a overheating problem. As long as I an doing 65 down the highway the temp runs about 180F. If I'm in city driving it will go up to about 190F. The car heats up to operating temp by the time I pull out of the driveway and go 1-2 blocks. If I run the AC I have to be on the highway at 60-65 to hold 185F. If I slow down or get into traffic you can watch the temp go up. I have power flushed the Block, re-cored the radiator, installed a new water pump, changed senders, and tried all the magic liquids they have on the market today. Nothing seems to help. I did drive the car on a AACA tour this summer but was unable to use the AC. Driving up mountains also causes the temp to rise. I want to use this car for tours with the AC on. I'm getting ready to pull the heads to see what I have and the engine if required. Any ideas? Please help.

[nearchoclatetown]

What's the compression like and timing is important?

[R W Burgess]

If it does push water(boil it) and never goes near 220, I wouldn't worry about it. Your temperature guage may not be accurate either.

Wayne

[Packard enthus.]

by the mid 1920's radiator technology, and SAE technical standards had taken the auto industry to the point that a properly set up production car, especially those designed for the wealthy to be used at high speeds, WILL NOT OVER-HEAT. PERIOD. (notice I didn't mention Ford products - did anyone see a Ford out in the desert in the summer, up to, oh, say 1950, that did NOT sport a "Desert Water" bag dangling from the front bumper...?

You say you had your radiator "re-cored". How do you know the "new" radiator is of sufficient capacity ? A REALLY competent radiator shop would do a "flow" check, and compare it with the charts on your car, to see if you are getting the cooling water you need.

[frazer]

Have you checked the fan clutch? If you are having heating problems in heavy traffic this could be it.

[Steve Braverman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frazer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you checked the fan clutch? If you are having heating problems in heavy traffic this could be it. </div></div>

Did they have fan clutches in 1958?

[JohnD1956]

The work you did may have caused some particles inside the water jacket to get loosened and to begin flowing with the coolant. They could have blocked some of the tubes in the new radiator. This happened to me on my 56 Buick. Also if this is like my 56 Buick you should use a 160 thermostat in there.

I got a filter for my upper radiator hose and it has a stainless steel removable filter so it can be pulled periodically and washed out. Unfortunately I had to cut my upper hose, but it was over ten years old anyway and two years later I'm still catching crud in there. But it is getting better each time with less crud and I can definitely drive longer without the car running a fever. Eventually I plan to remove the filter and replace my upper hose.

One more thing, I heard it said that replacing the valve guides with hardened guides causes higher engine temps. I did this to my 56 back in 88 completely unaware that Buick Engines have a higher nickle content in the original valve guides and thus do not need to be changed to burn unleaded gas.

I'm not vouching for the accuracy of this comment but I can say that my Buick used to run a lot cooler and never ran a fever till I changed those darn valve guides.

JD

[Guest peter packard]

Hi all, I believe that john D has hit the nail on the head in that you probably have a lot of your radiator tubes blocked ( usually not noticeable below 50%). This may seem a little out of left field but I swear by it and it costs very little to implement. I am not selling anything or promoting any product but this procedure has worked for me on any of my friends cars that had blocked cores. Good luck.

RADIATOR CLEANING USING CAR EXHAUST PRESSURE

THE PRINCIPLE: The principle involved is that a PETROL engine of approximately 4 litres delivers sufficient heated exhaust pressure and flow to clear blocked tubes, and later the block, but if the radiator is completely blocked, the donor engine will stall due to the blocked exhaust and not damage the tubes. The beauty of the process is that it does not normally require the removal of the radiator. I can only really talk about Packards and Chrysler products but I would imagine that most Automobiles would be the same. In the 55-56 Packard, I found it too difficult to apply the technique to the block, so I installed an in-line filter in the top hose. I also removed a rear welsh plug on either rear block and hosed out about 2 pounds of silt from each side, even though the engine was showing no signs of hot spotting on the cylinders.

THE TECHNIQUE: In 1968 I had a delightful Chrysler Royal which I needed to take on 1,500 mile return trip, towing a car trailer. The radiator was getting hot so I removed the radiator unsoldered the tanks, plunged and cleared the cores, then resoldered the tanks. I thought I was pretty smart at the time as it all went smoothly. Well I got about 500 miles and the radiator started to get hot again . I thought WTF and by the time I had gone 1,000 miles it didn’t like any outside air temps over 85F at all. It was at this point that the car started to boil and closer inspection of the core revealed that the cores were indeed really blocked again. I drove on until I had no water in the system and the engine was starting to seize. I knew that I could not continue so when I pulled into a Service Station in the Boondocks, the proprietor laughed when he heard the engine sizzling like a steak on a grill.

THE RADIATOR: He directed me around the back where he had an old Ford V8 motor mounted on a sled with hoses. He disconnected the Bottom radiator hose from the block and connected it to a long fire fighting hose connected to the exhaust of the Ford V8 motor . He also removed the radiator cap and removed entirely the top radiator hose from the radiator and thermostat mount on the block.

He then disconnected the exhaust of his Ford V8 and thoroughly warmed the motor. When warm he stopped the motor , reconnected it’s exhaust to the Chrysler radiator bottom pipe and restarted the Ford motor. He let it burble for about a minute ( as much longer will melt the hose). He then used a hose to partially fill the Chrysler radiator until it started to run back over the guard and toward the Ford motor. He stopped the water, started the Ford motor and FLOORED IT. He didn’t hold it floored but gave it a few good revs at WFO to generate lots of flow. Well, the water spout went about 20 foot into the air and there were bits of junk everywhere. He repeated the process once by which time visual inspection revealed clear cores.

He then reversed the process and blew down the radiator to clear any junk which may have been in the bottom tank, ready to go into the block. Only once in this direction was necessary.

THE BLOCK : He then removed the thermostat from the block , replaced the thermostat housing and partially filled the block, whilst lightly blocking the lower block hole with a piece of wood before reconnected the V8 exhaust. He then blew out the block and piece of wood in the reverse of the normal flow direction. A lot of muddy junk and crud came out and he was satisfied ( I WAS TRULY AMAZED !) He did not repeat the block blow-out in the normal flow direction.

He asked me if I wanted the thermostat back in and I said No, as I was still concerned about the overheating. The result was that the Temp gauge never even got to Low on the way home. I was hooked and have taken a blocked radiator out. HOWEVER: THE TECHNIQUE IS NOT A CURE FOR A BLOWN HEAD GASKET CAUSING OVERHEATING. – CHECK FOR AIR BUBBLES IN RADIATOR BEFORE BLAMING CORE. HOWEVER, CLEANING OUT THE CORE MAY ALLOW YOU TO USE A GOOD QUALITY RADIATOR SEALER, REMEMBERING THAT YOU LOSE 10% RADIATOR CAPACITY EVERY TIME YOU USE A RADIATOR SEALER.

PACKARDS AND ABOUT 40 YEARS ON: Well, I have used this technique on all of mine and my mate’s cars ever since and have not had anything but amazement and cool running motors. I have done about 20 Packards with great results.

WHAT GEAR TO USE: I do not use a separate motor, I use a driveable car ( Ford ) costing about $100 ( which should last about 20 years as it will do about 20 hours work and maybe 1 mile) with a four litre motor so I can manoveur it to reverse up to the front of the blocked vehicle. It should have a single round exhaust of approx 2 to 2.25 inch to fit a regular radiator hose.

The car to car connection involves very little expense as I use second hand hoses from my cars, plus some exhaust pipe bits and pieces of the same 2 to 2.25 dia. I always use a blanket over the guard of the “patient’ vehicle. You can mix and match the metal and hose bits but you generally find that the radiator and exhaust connections are rubber hose and longer bits are old exhaust ( which the local exhaust shop is pleased to give to you for zip ), with rubber hose joiners. I also like to have a bit of the exhaust pipe joiner over the guard as you can instantly tell when the water gets to the guard level, before it starts to run into the exhaust of the donor car.

CAUTIONS:

DO NOT USE A DIESEL DONOR , BECAUSE IF THE DONOR EXHAUST HOSE COMES OFF YOU WILL SPRAY PAINT THE WALLS BLACK. I CAN ATTEST TO A 30 MINUTE RADIATOR CLEAN, FOLLOWED BY A FOUR HOUR CLEAN OF THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

BE AWARE THAT THE EXHAUST IS HOT SO DON’T MELT THE RUBBER CONNECTION HOSES. DON’T TRY TO USE POOL HOSES AS THEY MELT VERY EASILY – OF COURSE I HAVE TRIED IT!

Good luck and after a bit of experimentation you will get the hang of it. It works great for me and is very cost effective. Peter Toet

.

[Ganze]

Thanks for the info. I have since found the problem. While doing further testing I found that it is never good to ASSUME anything when working on these cars. While tinkering with the Distributor I said what the heck while it's out let me check the vacuum advance. You guessed it the diaphram was blown. I'm in the process of reassembly and really feel that I've found the problem. The vacuum advance was good the last time I checked it. I learned not to take anything for granted.

Thanks for your comments.

John

[oldiron]

Ganze; check to see that you don't have any cooling system hoses that might be collapsing. Further, check thermostat. Finally check your timing. Regards; oldiron

[Roadhog]

John D, Where can I get a filter for my top hose? My '56 Buick has the same problem and I have been using my wifes' panty hose for a filter in the top inlet!!! It works good though and it sure is fun getting the hose!!!!

[JohnD1956]

I'll have to check into that RH. But be careful your wife doesn't think somethings wrong when you stop chasing her for those hose...

JD

[JohnD1956]

Here's the information on the coolant filter I installed on my 56 Buick.

coolant filter