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Dodge Deluxe

Help needed with a 1939 Dodge D-11 Deluxe

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BTW, I saw a light green '40 Plymouth at a car show on Sat. that was great looking, very similar to your Dodge. I think I like the oblong headlights better then the round ones.

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Do not use old gas! It could gum up your motor for good.

Use the sniff test. If it smells like gas it's OK, if it smells like old stinky varnish run away! It will ruin your motor!

I prefer to use a motorboat gas tank for starting old motors, moving cars around etc. That way you know you have fresh clean gas. They are safer than an old tin can and they have a built in fuel pump. You can hook one directly to the carb if the fuel pump is suspect, or hook it to the fuel pump if it is OK.

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I agree do not use the old gas and make sure you dispose of it properly. The fumes will make you sick. I keep an old lawnmower tank around with a shut off valve on it and about two feet of hose which I connect to the gas line where it goes into the fuel pump. I put a tire valve stem on the cap and I can presurezie it if I need to. Make sure you disconnect the oil pressure gage to make sure you have oil coming out of it. You do not want to spin a bearing due to lack of oil pressure. You can back fill the oil pump by using the another lawnmower fuel tank with a valve stem arraingement and connecting it where the oil pressure gage connects and then force oil into the engine which will also prime the pump. Hope this helps.

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I'm going to drain the old gas from the tank then. I think I can just disconnect the fuel line just before the electric fuel pump and get it out that way by gravity. Or better yet, can I disconnect the line after the electric fuel pump and let the pump do the work? I picked up a new set of contact points and a new condenser today, I'll be changing those on Thursday if I get some time.

Dan

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look on the bottom of the tank for a threaded plug--most cars of that vintage had one. Sometimes they hide under layers of gunk

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Some rad shops will flush your gas tank, clean it out, and coat it with sealer. A good investment if you mean to keep the car.

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Okay, today's progress...

I installed new points and condenser, along with a new rotor. I got sparks at the points, good sign.

I poured a tad of gas into the carb and she fired and burnt the gas in the carb! Blew a bunch of mouse nesting out the tail pipe.

Okay, new problem... I bent a new steel gas line to run from the fuel pump up to the carb. When I removed the old line from the carb, something fell out of the brass fitting where it connects to the carb. I caught it, but I am not sure how it goes back in? It is a small silver colored metal piece, about a half inch long, with a rounded end on one end and a pointed end on the other. kinda looks like a tiny pencil. Does the pointed end go into the carb or the towards the line? It honestly looks like it could go either way so I am not sure? My service manaul has not arrived yet so I have nothing to reference or look at, so any help would be appreciated.

Also, I ran a piece of new neoprene line from the pump to a gas can, when I crank the engine it does not suck gas, will not pump anything, so I am thinking the fuel pump is bad.

Dan

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Hi There sounds like you have found the needle valve going into your carb. Put it back point first into the carb. To by-pass your faulty fuel pump put a can of gas on the cowl in front of the windscreen and with a flexible fuel resistant hose connect directly into the carb. Allow gravity to feed the carb, and the needle valve should regulate how much enters at any time. Expect a bit of seepage form the carb as old seals have dried out. Follow the wise words about the oil/priming etc. If she fires and revs don't rev it too hard, just let it settle to an idle for a few minutes. Keep us posted this is a great thread you have started !!

Rgds Dave

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I got under the gas tank today as well, and there is indeed a drain plug, so draining out the old gas will be very simple.

Dan

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I have a rebuilt fuel pump on the way. I emptied the gas tank today. I've got a few questions;

When I disconnected the line just before the electric fuel pump, which is under the drivers side on the frame rail, nothing poured out? Shouldn't gas have run freely out of the line? I'm thinking I'd better blow air through the line as recommeded to be sure it is clear. Second, the fuel gauge now reads full instead of empty. Someone must have the fuel gauge leads crossed? I definitely have the battery connected with the starter cable going to the negative post and the positive post is grounded to the frame. This car is indeed a positive ground correct?

Dan

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The gas wouldn't necessarily run out. If the highest point on the gas line was above the gas in the tank. But blowing the line out couldn't hurt.

Yes your car is positive ground. Fuel gauges can go on the fritz for any reason or no reason on a car that old. Usually a bad ground or loose wire or bad sender, very seldom does the gauge on the dash give any trouble.

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You might want to blow into the tank instead of the gas line. If it is blocked the crud will wind up in the tank. I wrap a rag around my air hose to seal it.

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I blew compessed air into the line today, there seemed to be resistance, not free flow. I'll try blowing into the tank next. Regarding the fuel gauge, the tank looks to be pretty new. I'm wondering if maybe when the new tank was installed, the sending unit leads were wired to be a negative ground? Couldn't this cause the gauge to read backwards?

Dan

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Okay, now I'm confused... I have taken the gas line off at the gas tank, still could not blow air out of the tank. I put the blow gun in the filler neck, wrapped up tight with a rag, nothing would blow out the gas line fitting. At first I thought the line was clogged, so I took the line off. Line is clear. I can run a stiff wire into the fitting hole and into the tank freely. I then pushed a wire coat hanger through the fitting hole and clear into the tank, so I know it's open. Yet still, nothing would blow out, and I could not blow air into the tank from the fitting hole either? Is there some sort of check valve inside that prevents gas from running out in the event of a gas line break? I took the drain plug out, air freely blows out from there when I blow air into the filler neck. I took the sending unit and float out and shined a light down inside and the tank is definitely empty. So I don't understand. I installed new line and called it a day. On another note, the gas gauge leads were indeed crossed at the sending unit, that explains why the gauge was reading full instead of empty.

Dan

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Hi What you have is very odd, the tank on my '38 is just that a tank, with no tricky valves or anything. You said that the gas tank looks new/refurbished??. I wonder if something has been done wrong and that is what has brought the car to a standstill.

Try this...put the drain plug back in, put the sender back in, leave the fuel line off and again presurise the tank, if not venting then stick the coat hanger inside the tank and see if that opens it. This may not fix any problem but it will tell you exactly where the issue is. Or as a wild card now that you have blown the rubbish out of tank and lines tip in some new fuel and see if the tank delivers it.

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I put three gallons of new gas into the tank, then took an electric fuel pump that I tested first to be sure it pumped, and hooked it up to the line and tried it. Nothing... would not pump any gas out of the tank. I wonder if there is a pick up tube or line inside the tank that connects to the gas tank outlet fitting? Perhaps this is the problem?

Dan

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Deluxe, does it look as though the tank may have been sealed? GAs lines rarely take gas from the botom of the tank.How far did you shove the coathanger inside the tank? Just trying to invision from your discription here, but if you took out the fitting they usually have a tube that goes up in the tank a short ways. Could the sealer, if it exists, have formed a tube that stayed in place when you removed the fitting? Or if wasn't sealed could crud have formed a sealed tube that your air can't penetrate? You have to remember by blowing in the tank from the gas cap side the whatever your air pressure is is only PUSHING on about a 1/4 square inch. Not much force. What was his name with the finger in the dike?

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I can push a coat hanger wire into the tank for a foot and half, about 18 inches. Then it bottoms out on something and I cannot get in any farther. When I pull it out, it is not wet with new gas, but rather looks like it has varnished bad gas on it. I'll be darned if I can figure it out? I bent a crank into the end of the wire so I could turn it around in there, it definitely does not feel like it is in the open, it feels like it is inside a tube inside the tank, and bottoms out at the end of whatever it is.

Dan

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OK, a foot and a half certainly rules out what I was thinking. How much pressure are you useing? Might be a baffle in there that is keeping you from getting a direct blast of air. Some gas in tank? How about a garden hose fitted up to the fitting in the bottom, kind of a enamouch.

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I'm thinking there must be some kind of pick up tube inside that is clogged. I'm going to try spraying Gumout into the fitting and seeing if I can break it up. I'm using 100 psi.

Dan

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Hey Dan. All good advice you are getting here. Be patient, you are bringing the car back from the dead so there will be issues. Also try and buy some fuel tank cleaner, you will probably need to drop the tank out which is easy so that you can slosh the stuff around. I put a length of chain in mine and gently rocked it. If you put chain in do not roll the tank as you may end up with the chain tied up inside your tank !! Another reason to drop the tank is that it gives you the chance to replace the rubber pipe between the tank and the filler spout.

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Dan, I had a very similar problem with my 39 D11 a while back.. What i did was put a little rubber hose on the end of the fuel line coming from the tank and stuck my air blower in there and started with 10 PSI and moved up from there. It took about 35 to 40 PSI before i heard a pop and then it was clear. What i think happened was the gas makes like a hard varnish seal over the outlet line on the fuel tank.. Just be very careful, if the tank is weak somewere and you put in that much pressure if your fuel filler cap is not off you are going to blow a hole in the tank. Or if the little nipple from the tank is weak and the varnish seal is very stubborn you will again punch a hole in that hard line coming from the tank. Just work slow and use real small air pressure increases. I hope that helps!! Also by the way i used to run a little electric pump on the fuel line too.. I never got the car running right like that. I got a new mechanical fuel pump and the car ran like a champ. Also one last thing disconnect the line from the carb and run the air through the line that way as well.

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Hey, much appreciated. I've got the thing soaking right now, I sprayed some Chem Tool (like GUMOUT), into the line and I'm letting it sit a spell. Then I'll try some compressed air again. I would never do it with the gas cap on. Hopefully I'll have the good luck that you did and get it clear. Regarding the fuel pump. When I bought the car, it had an electric pump on it from the previous owner, but I too wanted to go back to the mechanical pump. I hooked the lines back onto the mechanical pump and it would not pump any gas, so I tried running the inlet line from a gas can, still wouldn't pump. Upon taking it off I saw why, the arm was missing, it was removed. It looks like when the previous owner put the electric fuel pump on it, he disabled the mechanical one so it would not be operating. I was able to find a rebuilt mechanical pump that looks like brand new, and pumps air when I operate the arm. I'm getting ready to install that one, I already removed the electric one. I ran all new lines from the tank to the pump, then from the pump to the carb, so I'm all clear. One thing I did was when I bent the new line from the pump to the carb, was to bend it away from the manifold, and tried to run it along the inside of the fender well to keep it away from the manifold heat. I was told by the previous owner that the car would experience vapor lock from the heat of the manifold vaporizing the fuel before it reached the carb. He told me this was the main reason he put the electric pump on it. He also wrapped the fuel line in heat shielding insulation. So I ran the new line away from the manifold and then back over to the carb, then I also wrapped it in heat shield insulation. Hope this does the trick. Did you ever experience vapor lock with yours?

Also in reply to Dave, I'm really hoping I won't have to drop the tank, but if I do I will definitely replace the rubber filler neck hose. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks all,

Dan

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Dan: I once had the same plug up line on a early Olds. I took the inside of a speedometer cable and chucked it in my electric drill and then ran it on a slow speed. It took a couple minutes but I ended up drilling through the plug and it ran fine after that. You might try it before you drop the tank.

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