buick man
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Posts posted by buick man
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17 hours ago, Smartin said:
@highcking the bolts are 7/16" not 3/8 FYI.👍
... yes and too and that also means the hex "head" of the bolt is 3/8 FYI ... and has the big factory R embossed on it ....
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They probably carry different pointed bolts that if you examine them closely most likely have longer of shorter neck shanks and/or thread links. But the proper bolt dimensions are one that when all your components are sandwiched together including the thickness of the frame mount body perch the shank or neck of the bolt should have no threads on it and the thread portion is only used to allow the bolt to thread into the inner body cage nuts. This assures the rubber mounting components do not have interference with any thread portions of the bolt itself.
I purchased my rubber components from Restoration Specialties. I did so because I found that their catalogue gives a more complete and more sophisticated selection and assortment along with the dimensions of the components you want and their drawings are to scale and not just a photograph like a breakfast plate item off a menu from Denny's. Also, if you call them, the guys there will go out of their way to explain and verify component dimensions anything similar that is not listed in the catalogue or on-line. Make sure the upper square mount has the internal vulcanized metal washer encapsulated in it. I forget where I got the ones without the vulcanized washer but just beware that is a needed item. Although Steele is a good source especially for weather window seals it is hard in my opinion to find the experienced one-on-one help you find at Restoration Specialties. So in short, don't buy anything until you get one of the side frame mount and all of it's components out and measured and spec'd out before you order. Remember if you are replacing all your frame mount components throughout, the rear 2 bolts are longer that are located in the trunk on either side over the axle and the front 2 that are located on either side of the foot wells up front are a different size and the 2 located at the front frame cross member near the radiator mount are somewhat different as well. So I would take one of each off of the four areas to use as a calibrater before you order anything from either source. Hope this helps out.
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My advice would be to send it back and reclaim you money. Rebuild the stock system and/or install a portioning valved master brake cylinder system. The stock factory braking system was designed by engineers to completely stop your 4,500 pound car just fine and if you are not wearing a seat belt can easily put your head into the windshield thank you.
I fully understand the desired trend in doing these conversions but cannot understand they are necessary nor completely advisable. Why ? ... Well for one the primary goal or premise in installing a disk brake system is the desired notion of being able to stop sooner in a shorter period of time during a panic braking scenario is it not ? However, it would be wise to remember that faster stopping times also require a suspension and steering system that can withstand the forces now applied throughout these components to accommodate that goal. Therefore, modernizing all the other original front suspension and steering components is necessary to do this right otherwise one cannot achieve both stopping and control dynamics as a complete system. Sadly but true, your original components are not designed to take the additional torsional stress loads that a disk system will assert upon them to get you into that like a modern car " quicker braking response window " that a properly designed disk brake component system can offer because that modern system offers both safe increased stopping and overall control responses. If you are looking for safe stopping technology and a system to go with that you must consider all the other steering and suspension components on your car. Otherwise, the unilaterally applied disk system singularly attached to the rest of your old factory suspension and seeing components will greatly stress factory original king pins/ball joints, spindles, tie rods, A-frames ... etc ... So If one desires to properly overcome these factory design limitations, then cut the front of your frame off thereby eliminating the old factory suspension and steering components and weld-on a Fat Boy setup or any of the other ones out on the market that will also supply you with the requisite rack and pinion steering components and suspension components to help you safely achieve your goal of not only being able to stop in a shorter panic stop but to also allow you the proper suspension dive and steering control parameters that a panic stop requires. That or just don't tail gate anyone and practice the old 20 feet for every 10 mph rate of travel rule practiced for years between you and the car in front of you before Star Bucks and Disk Brake systems became one and the same and tail gating became the norm and national past time .... Just my thoughts and educated opinions.
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Also note that the 57-58 Cadillac model 62 series seats that btw would fit just fine in the Super and Roadmaster Series 57-58 model year runs, had an ingenious center drop down arm rest which the Buick factory seats did not offer. The center body section is the same for Cadillac model 62 and Buick Super & Roadmaster of this era. I always have felt that if one was not concerned with complete originality, and you could find a real good example out of a model 62 convertible all leather seat, just use that with the nifty factory arm rest as it is designed when raised up to set back into the seat divides out of the way and when needed can be pulled down. Cool and Nifty !
A little off topic : That way you could also attach a mount for your favorite hot beverage and as a holder for your now resident Covid face mask N95 or even a simple Cloth one. I don't mean or want to be a Debbie Downer, but this mask thing is going to be a very, very necessary fashion accessory for at least the next year or longer.
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Hello Bill ... Yes replacing all body mounts and hardware can be accomplished without removing body from frame .... However, not sure exactly what you mean by asking " ... the bolt head in on the bottom and the nut is on the top of the assembly ... " If you are referring to the side frame rail area ie. along the side where the car doors are located above, the nuts are what is referred to as cage nuts and are set at the factory inside body pan. I believe you can access them from inside the car floor pan. I state this because many who remove their body mount main bolts that indeed are rusted, can easily break lose their corresponding body inside upper cage nuts set into the body pan from the inside at the factory. Then if that happens one has to use a round cup bit on a drill and drill open the metal enough to expose and gain access to the factory detached cage nut and replace. If you do not, then when attempting to install the pointed factory frame mount 3/8 inch hex head bolt it will not thread and just spin resulting in not being able to seat and torque the bolt and compressing as necessary the 2 rubber body cushions .... Hope this helps clarify.
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Back in the late 60's I had a 1950 Dodge Wayfair , bought it off the back side of a used car lot and it had a moderate main barring knock ... paid 35 dollars. All was good until come winter what with the degrees dropping and snowing it just did not wanna fire up and would barely crank. Went over to the public bus garage and asked if they had any used 6 volt bus batteries. Got a big ultra heavy long bus battery that had a kazillion plates and uber cranking amps and installed that into the Dodge. Man would it ever crank but the tired old Dodge would still not fire up. With that battery I could crank it so long that the oil pressure would rise to about 40 lbs but still no fire up starting. Had to ultimately take it into a heated garage to get it going. On hind sight should of pulled the starter and rebuilt it because it no doubt was tired as well and dragging and crap for compression but then I was in high school and had little more than just pocket change to spend.
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See if you can get ahold of another known good 6 volt battery and connect it to your existing 6 volt battery in parallel. Positive to positive & Negative to negative. This will keep you at 6 volts but will double your amp hours ( capacity cold cranking amps ) . This old shop technique helps to eat through any bushing, windings or brushes resistances ... Jus a thought.
Edit : Oh and this connection technique also helps when you are attempting to charge a tired battery and just can't seem to get pass the resistance of the tired battery. Hook a good known battery of the same voltage in parallel and hook the charger + & - to the good battery terminals then use jumper cables to connect in parallel to the tired battery. This method will allow the tired battery to overcome charge plate resistance and begin to charge after a spell on the charging bench ...
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I got mine from Restoration Specialties for my 1957 Buick. Look for their Catalog on line. They also send out a hard copy catalog which each sale if you ask for one for your library. You will need to remove the bolt, bushing and washers so you can assess what you need as per the dimensions of your bushing. You may also be able to media blast your factory mount bolts as these are specially constructed factory bolts that are pointed at the tip and have the factory stamp on the hex head. Same thing goes for the thick factory special washers. Blast and repaint silver cad to original spec. I use just a dab of red rubber grease when reinstalling. Pre Soak the individual bolts and frame mount area well with your favorite rusty bolt spray and let set for a few day. Repeat, then repeat before you begin to attempt to remove the originals. Do it this way and you greatly minimize stripping and/or detaching the frame factory welded nut set up inside the frame support box area itself.
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I remember reading/hearing something about how Diamond Back cuts (think router out) the sidewall of an existing black acquired tires from various tire manufacturers to create the various white wall widths they offer as opposed to what an original factory produced manufacturer of a white walled series of tires would create via it's tire mold process. Kind of like what folks back in the day could achieve by sanding/shaving down the black side walls of tires to underscore and expose the white rubber underneath. Oh and for most major 1957 car manufacturer jobs the design white wall mantra was thin compared to what the previous 56 and older "wide" white walls had been. Chrysler with their completely new retooled bodies, even Ford, GM etc all went the route of the 2-1/2 look down considerably from the 3 and 4-inch www just the previous year. Just take a look at factory photo promo shoots of these cars. Buick even discusses the thinner white wall look in some of their advertising for 1957. Just a few thoughts and fact trivia picked up over time.
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Great spray job on that blue 57 but yes it is impossible to attempt matching a 2 stage paint to an original factory lacquer color. As you can see the toner match is off when comparing the jambs to the newly painted areas. This is just the condition of using bc/cc coat systems when attempting to color match lacquer jobs. However, if matching is important using a single stage urethane as a starting point one can tweak the overall finish tone by adding or subtracting quantities of the base formula tints to achieve a very close match up to that of the factory lacquer color and by over reducing the last final coat by 50% and aids in post painting polishing to achieve that deep tone lacquer look. Later any deep cut chip repairs and panel matches are more easily accomplished as well than when using bc/cc systems.
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Speaking of overall quality it appears the door panel skins can be saved with surgical removal techniques. You know I had a 1960 Buick years ago at the same time I had one of my 57 Buicks. In comparison always thought the 60 drove and felt like a different car completely compared to the 57. The 57 was comfortable but the power steering was sensitive compared to the 60 power steering feel and steering response was superior and the ride overall seemed better tracked with less body roll; felt lower and quieter inside with less body/frame related noise just a little more modern for a lack of a better word. Most likely the result of the improved frame and front suspension control arm associated components.
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Restoring or restomoding ?
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Bill a couple shots of inspiration ....
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All I have left from my dad's 60 LeSabre is the dash clock that I quickly grabbed off the dash before he parted ways with it to the junker in 1971 or so. Thinking of wiring it up to be a desk clock since it looks like a real jewel anyways or mount it next to my old 62 Healy 3000 chrome winged MK II front bonnet emblem ... All I have left of that car too 😪
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That's great 6T and keep em coming ... always enjoy your car finds !
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Clean, clean and clean, mean no bad here but really ... who cares if the bottom side looks as good as the top side and in my opinion it should 😜 ... but come on ya just gotta love the bottom end here ... yes only body oxide red primer stock ( baked on not just sprayed on ) from the factory and too gotta post a few picks and only asking $ 56k and change to boot, errr but come-on fella assembly line markings should be on the torque tube but on the coil springs too .... I think not or perhaps another Corvette Club member restored this Buick :
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Either too short incorrect length on oil dip stick and/or failing head gasket accounting for the smoke cloud while oil is sucked up during intake stroke and then burned ... 😘
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I believe both the 57 and the 58 had the same frame except the only component differences underside would be the front control arms for the different upper and lower ball joints used in 1958 from that of the first off 1957 model year for ball joints. The 58 was somewhat heavier than the 57 models but shared the same power train i.e. 364 engine. So I believe it would be a simple switch like to like.
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Gary : Starting from the windshield and proceeding towards the rear glass, you should have 3 rod pickup points to hold the headliner up and in place not placed between the windshield and rear glass. The original headliner was joined in sections at each of these points making up 4 sections just after the windshield and just before the windshield. At each seam a cardboard shim is sewn into the seam and this is what the metal bows slide into via their back side. You instal/slidel them from port to starboard and remove them the same way. Then install the metal crown over the side windows and the center dome lights which on the Roadmaster has one port and one starboard at the center intersection between the front and rear side window glass.
Edit : To be clear there is a space or section seam of headliner between each metal bow. So starting at the windshield juncture proceed rearward and the first seam has no metal bow. The next headliner seam has the first metal bow attached. The continuing to the rear the next headliner seam has no metal bow but the next one does. It follows this pattern to the rear window. Hope this is more clear. I have attached an old achieved photo of my coupe showing how the metal bows start in conjuncture with the head liner seams. If you have a 4-door the same placement applies :
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Gary: Here is what I know .... My 57 RM coupe has 3 of them and they are chromed and not polished stainless. My 57 model 75 4 door has 3 as well and they too are chrome plated tin as I removed them along with their corresponding rods to replace the headliner. Perhaps the Century has anodized but my Caballero Century were highly polished aluminum. In comparison the 57 Cadillacs were polished aluminum.
Edit: Oh and I have found that attempting to find these are next to impossible for whatever reason. I some 10 casual years of looking for some I have never found them on eBay, trade or hobby sites or rags. I found a set of 3 out of a 57 Cad coupe in a Salvage yard 6 years ago. They were polished aluminum but can develop oxidation and pit.
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Dan O ... black is not just another black there are differences. IF you want exactness and are science minded because after all paint is chemistry, one has to look not at the name a particular color is given but rather at the actual mix ratio formula itself and discern the Toners/Tints used in combination to achieve the overall desired perceived finished saturation ( Color ). Changing the percentages or even adding or eliminating a particular toner/tint can change everything subtle or acutely. For example Dupont's formulation of single stage urethane for the OEM color code "Chrysler Black " uses brown base toners/tints and the end product when compared side by side to a true black like Duponts Centari Pitch Black Acrylic Enamel 99A which uses no browns is not a true black like 99A.
Your Buick used lacquer on the firewall as well as the rest of the car originally from the factory. If you are serious about replicating exactness to factory finish like for example the Corvette Club crowd does, then my suggestion would be to take a look at the Dupont Centari 99A enamel as reference above. An enamel can be massaged to appear like lacquer as can a single stage urethane both of which chemically in a sense come from an acrylic base. 99A overall density renders a complete solid black. Also noteworthy as eluded to by Matt above is that an informed individual cannot compare a base coat / clear coat finish to that of single stage finish be it enamel or urethane or lacquer and at the end of the day still call it a match. Diving further into this for example, urethane based chemistry in simple terms allows the resin to kinda float to the top of the finish to achieve a faux like clear coat protective effect and appearance while in a bc/cc system the clear is completely separate application product just like the clear applied on finger nails, bar tops etc and is all about shine and protection only rendering no aid to hue, tone or depth or saturation of color as the flat base coat cannot contribute to that effect either but for only density of tone. An Enamel has a completely different chemistry and the result is a condensed color tone and in addition results in a deep hue and saturation of color. Lacquer goes even further in both saturation, tone and hue achieving a deep "pond like " true depth that one could almost fall or dive into if possible and renders a finish to an extent dependent in part to the matrix number of properly applied coats. It is easy to apply and extremely easy to color match and to correct and repair. Lacquer paint allows the same light refraction and saturation to that of expensive true china plate and serving ware. The color perceived goes deep and continues into the substrate.
Another aspect of color matching involves the use of Flattening Agents to a paint. These silica based compounds serve to deflect and scatter light hitting the surface thereby diffusing the shine. They float to the outer mill surface eventually during cure and reside there. Care in the amount and area where applying flattened paints should be considered since any type of intentional applied rubbing, compounding or abrasion upon the service thereafter will in effect remove them from the finish rendering the surface to shine once again. Flattening agents also soften the cured surface and render a less " Pencil Hardness " durability to the finished cured coat making scratching and markings and ability to keep the surface clean more problematic.
This is why painting ones Classic with a bc/cc simply does not in the end match color hue, tone and saturation original factory correctness and why these paint jobs render a completely different look to classics from the factory. It is akin to wearing latex clear gloves or not. It is not a subtle difference, If a car today that is a newly lacquer painted classic is stored in a covered garage then the age old complaint of fading lacquer paint is a mute point. Even with decades of exposure go take a stroll in an old salvage yard notice how the factory lacquer paint jobs still hold up. Rub the haze off the surface and note the shine. Another fable often parroted over and over again is that lacquer checks and cracks over time. This is true yet was started only because from the result of lacquer repaint jobs that were hands-down improperly prepared and most importantly improperly applied in terms of corner cutting application methods rendering overly applied "hosed on" mill thickness, incorrect recoating times and temperature.
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oops ... your right Stuart my bad ... should not attempt reading and responding after midnight
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A bump .... Might I suggest making a complete list of the parts you have and condition they are in and post that to this listing ... Make a list of what work needs to be done in detail ... Also set and post an asking price for the project with all parts included and if desired post an asking price for just the rolling chassis as shown and then separately price the parts if so desired.
This approach I believe would greatly enhance the overall sale effort and results. GLWTS !
'51 dusc brake conversion HELP!
in Buick - Post War
Posted · Edited by buick man (see edit history)
Edit... No lecture just schooling ... Sheesh .. or it it Sheethz or however they say it in Texas?? ... Oh, and of course you being the resident structural design engineer can testify to these conversions not making any difference at all on associated component stresses and all is cool ... get real.