Richard Lichtfel
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Posts posted by Richard Lichtfel
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A most unusual listing for parts popped-up on e-Bay recently:
Someone in Texas has "a barnfind of parts for a 1909 Peerless" for sale. 5 photos show a rear body panel, front fenders, and a seat-back for a Roi des Belges body. I would be interested in theories where this came from, besides out of the blue(that may be the case). Are there more 1909s out there....leftover parts from the Goodlett or Weatherford Collections? You're welcome to comment on the recent Peerless Forum post ("Peerless Parts For Sale") about these parts also.
David Baird and I showed his 1909 Peerless Roi des Belges, or 7-Passenger Touring Car, at Bakersfield 2014, Hershey 2013, and The Gilmore Gathering 2013, so some of you may have seen a 1909 Peerless recently. Mr. Baird passed away last year and the family has the car for sale. Only two other 1909s known in the world, another Model 19 in North Carolina and a Model 25 in Michigan.
Thanks!
----Jeff
A few years ago there was a very nice pre-1910 Peerless touring that was dismantled and made into a Green Dragon race car. We wondered what ever happened to the original body, fenders and lamps. Maybe this is it. RHL
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Our Cleveland meet is looking good. We have eight Peerless cars registered so far. Another "Gathering of Eagles". The oldest is a 1913. I am re-building my water pump and replacing the hoses on my '16. Getting it ready for the May hill climb, Memorial Day parade and then on to Cleveland for our June show. I don't know how many of the other makes are registered but it should be a good turn out.
This should be fun and historical, hope to see you in Cleveland. RHL
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Most of the roads mentioned here are beautiful but very busy. Not good touring for my cars with narrow wheels and two wheel brakes. I cruise the back roads of Wisconsin. Traffic is light and they are all paved and in better shape than most state hiways. Several years ago Wisconsin had a law that in order for a farm to have grade A milk they had to be on a paved road. Dust you know. As a result it is difficult to find a gravel road in Wisconsin. You have to be careful of the tractors and Amish on these roads but with the speed I go they are no problem, I try not to hold them up. RHL
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I would take a bag of tools, breaker bar to remove the trailer tire if need be.
I usually have two spares for my enclosed trailer.
Be sure the tire pressures in the tires are at the max per sidewall and the wheel bearings have been repacked recently.
When I get 25 miles down the road I stop and check my tie-downs and check the torque on my trailer wheels with a torque wrench.
Something I don't leave home without---my cell phone and AAA card.
RHL
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]298707[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298708[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298709[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298710[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298711[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298712[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298713[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298714[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298715[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298716[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]298717[/ATTACH]
FOR SALE- 1930 Peerless 4 door Sedan- Believed to be a ONE OF 8, A RARE AACA CLASSIC 4 door Sedan, 5 passenger. Continental Inline 8 Engine. Front windshield cranks out for air flow. 85hp, 246.7 cubic inch engine, 118” wheel base, radiator shutter, 2 side mount wheels, artillery wheels, and luggage shelf at rear with trunk. Other accessories and restorations to come! ALL INSTRUMENTATION IS WORKING! Drove up Pikes Peak, Colorado, in 2001. Vin #10055 Body Builder: Hays. Body #31, Model 122, Type 122, Series A, Engine # 17S-1074.
6 new tires and painted rims. It has been fully serviced mechanically so it is in excellent running condition. The cosmetics have not been restored at this time. The upholstery in it now is original mohair and has window curtains. One could keep it as is and still enjoy driving it, but if you were interested in it looking show quality, it will need new paint, carpet and upholstery. This is something you could contract us to do with your own controls over color, style and budget. Otherwise, we will eventually take time with it if it does not sell quickly as is, and we will determine the color and styles and of course the appropriate markup thereafter.
Asking $34,000
Pistorius Collectible Autos
Antique & Classic Car Sales and Restoration Services
Brando Pistorius (813)917-9205 Tampa, Florida USA www.OldWheel.com
- Peerless outsold Packard in 1920
- They were one of the most expensive luxury cars of the era. The top three in price and status where called the three P’s:
Packard, Pierce Arrow and Peerless.
- Peerless Motor Cars (Cleveland, Ohio 1900-1931) was the first company to adopt what would become the standard of automobile design, a front mounted engine driving the rear wheels through a solid drive shaft.
- Barney Oldfield shattered world speed records with the Peerless “Green Dragon”
- Many collectors believe the Peerless motorcars to be some of the finest automobiles built in the USA in the 1920’s renowned for their high performance and stylish luxury. However, Peerless is the rarest and hardest to find of the “three P’s” as it ceased production in 1932.
- In 1933, ownership and management of Peerless organized the Carling Brewing Co. USA, just after Congress repealed Prohibition, and began production of the famous Carling Black Label Beer in the old Peerless factory.
Other Peerless “Firsts”
- Peerless was the first company to successfully use a flyball governor to maintain speeds.
- They set a 1,000-mile endurance record and the fastest time ever in the Mt. Washington hill climb in New Hampshire.
- Peerless was the first to use of aluminum in their side-entrance tonneau along with being the first closed formal body in American production.
- Peerless was one of the first companies to use electric lighting. They used a Gray & Davis system as early as 1910 and then upgrading in 1913 to a single voltage Gray & Davis system which now included an electric starter.
Pistorius Collectible Autos
Antique & Classic Car Sales and Restoration Services
Brando Pistorius (813)917-9205 Tampa, Florida USA www.OldWheel.com
I hope we will be able to see one the these beautiful Peerless cars in Cleveland in June!!
Peerless meet-----June 12-13 &14, 2015
- Peerless outsold Packard in 1920
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Evan Ide Of Bonhams tells me that this Peerless has the 825 cubic inch/13.5 liter engine.
UPDATE, 2/25/15: The details of the car are in on the Bonhams site. Auction text about the car is quite flowery and appealing and has some correct information. I do know that the Peerless has had it's current appearance going back to at least 1974. Pre-auction estimate of $250-350K. Nice detailed photos, about 60. Car apparently in good running condition.
In 1912 Peerless had three models with the six cylinder engine:
Model 35-H 38.5 HP 125" wb $4,000 to $5,200
Model 36-K 48.6 HP 137" wb $5,000 to $6,200
Model 37-L 60 HP 140" wb $6,000 to $7,200
touring----roadster----Limousine---landoulet
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----the two paragraphs above are about the 2009 event----
The Fagnes Hivernales tour photos are up now for the 2015 event: 32 pictures of Ford Model Ts, Ford Model As, a '30 Marquette, an '07 Lorraine-Dietrich,[ATTACH=CONFIG]295534[/ATTACH]a Hotchkiss, a '27 Packard and other makes driving around on this tour in wintertime Belgium. One tip to using this Royal Veteran Car Club of Belgium site is to click on the language button ("FR/NL") on the first page view. Choose French unless you are for some reason fluent in Dutch.
I think the upper photo is of a Marquette from about 1930...anyone else have a guess? The car in the lower photo is a Lorraine-Dietrich.
Photos by Jacques Breuer and Jacques Judicq[ATTACH=CONFIG]295533[/ATTACH] February 7th and 8th.
It would not be fun to do this here today. The wind chill is 20 to 30 below zero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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A couple of machines out cruising for chicks maybe?:cool: Can anyone name them? Railroad water tower is gone progress.
The first Wisconsin license plate was 1905. From 1905 thru 1910 the plates were all the same, black with aluminum numbers and the letter W. There was no year put on these plates. In 1911 they started putting the year on the plate.
The number ranges: 1905--1 - 1492
1906--1493-2666
1907--2667-4147
1908--4148-6192
1909--6193-9232
1910--9233-15211
If you can read the number this will give the date of the plate. RHL
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I would not count out a car or its year based on the door handles. Some cars had different types available, depending on model, coachbuilder, etc. This car is obviously a wealthy man's car, with possibly custom coachwork, so I would also not count out any car based on belt moldings.
Peerless had these door handles in 1924 and 1925. The running board looks Peerless, the fender looks Peerless and Peerless had the flat door panel with no molding in 1925. My guess---1925 Peerless Equiposed 8-- 7 passenger surburban sedan 128WB $4,419
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I hope the word gets out to the owners of Cleveland built vehicles about this meet. In 2001 we had the Peerless 100th anniversary meet in Cleveland and talked then about having a meet like this in the future. Like Peerless you seldom see some of these makes at car shows and it will be nice to see them together at one gathering. This should be a show you don't want to miss. See you in Cleveland June 12-14. RHL
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Price is a little high. Too bad someone took the emblem off it. I bought one a couple years ago in mint condition with emblem for $5. Winter fronts are not being used very much. RHL
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There were a number of cars that had that roof type in that era though I guess you would have to keep the speed down with the roof raised. It would make a good air brake - until it tore off. I don't think this is a regular production line item. More likely a show special custom.
Peerless called it a Cape top.
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Route 66 in the Bloomington, Il. Area in the 50's there were some areas the signs read REASONABLE and PROPER.
It was a gudgement call by the officer, and often they would chase a car to determine if they were speeding in areas where speed limit signs were present.
Dale in IndyIndy
Back in those days I had a '53 Jag roadster and my best friend had a Healy 100, we were going to Bloomington for a wedding. The speed limit in Illinois back then was reasonable and proper. Sunday morning on 66, clear & sunny and no traffic. We were cruising at about 100 mph and passed a state highway patrol car, no problem, we were perfectly legal. Now if it was raining or lots of traffic you could be ticketed for driving too fast for conditions. I got a few of those too. Then there was Chicago, they would give a speeding ticket to a parked Jag because it looked fast. But I learned quickly, I folded up a $5 bill and stapled it to my drivers license. I never got another ticket, although my license was filled with holes.
Those were the days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RHL
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Howdy Bob,
Welcome to the Peerless Forum! Drop in anytime. I like the heading on your profile: "1932 Peerless Owner". Not too many can say that. I hope that someday you can show your '32 next to the Crawford Museum's '32 at a car show. No doubt you would find that enjoyable.
The CLEVELAND ALL STARS Meet will be JUN 12-14, 2015. After holding a one-marque meet this year, the Third Annual Peerless Meet will be a multi-make meet again: for all Cleveland- and Northern-Ohio-made autos. Contact Bernie Golias. Email: berniegolias@aol.com , PH:# (330) 635-2784.
Others reading may not know the numbers of Cleveland automakers, 80+, or Northern Ohio automakers, 115+. Some of these companies only made a handful of cars, but a few stand out, like Winton, White, Jordan, Chandler, early Packards, Star, Baker, Owen-Magnetic, Stearns-Knight, Hal Twelve, and Cleveland.
----Jeff
Our Cleveland meet is coming along. We will have a special meeting room in order to have a Peerless board meeting and discuss the future. We will spend one day touring the area visiting the sites of the factories and homes of the prominent auto manufacturers. Another day will be a car show of the Cleveland built cars and trucks. Our banquet will be in the Crawford museum. Plan to spend an extra day to visit the library at the Western Reserve Crawford museum. Back in 1953 I drove my 1916 Peerless to Cleveland for the start of the Glidden Tour. We didn't have Interstate roads then, just state and US highways. My parents followed in their new car just in case my high school restoration didn't make it.
We made the trip and tour with no trouble.The car was PEERLESS. I brought my Peerless back to Cleveland in 2001 for the 100 year meet and
will again next year. I hope to see a lot of Peerless people there. RHL
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Looks like 1920's to me. Best guess is 1925 to 1927. Value? 300 to 700 off the top of my head.
These rear seat wind shields were available in 1914 & 1915. My 1917 Peerless has one. There was also a skirt that attached to the lower part
of the center window to help protect the rear passengers from the wind.
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Looks like Barney Oldfield in the Model 34 Indy pace car that paced the race in 1920. It was said that Barney probably was in control of the fastest car on the track that day. I think Barney ended up owning that car, and drove it all across the U.S.[/quote
The radiator, hood, lights and fenders look like Peerless 1917 to 1919. Peerless made a sport roadster that looks just like this. I would post a picture if I knew how.
RHL
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I put a healthy squirt in the inlet of my air tools before using.
Original mixture: 1 1/2 gallon ice machine oil---10 ounces synthetic oil of wintergreen---4 ounces technical chloroform--1 gal. kerosene--8 ounces carbon tettrachlorid
1/2 teas. red oil dye.
From Ketcham's automotive handbook.
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Tom is not really an antique and classic car dealer, he is a rabid collector who finances his many great adventures by buying and selling antique and classic cars...
This car looks very similar to the speedster that Mr. Hofsted built a few years ago in N.Y. It was green and listed as a 1922 model 66 #66A115.
I wonder what happened to that car? When the bodies are too far gone to restore making the chassis into a speedster is the way to go. I have a 1919 complete chassis with fenders but missing body. I bought it as a parts car for my other '16 & '17 Peerless but it is in such good shape I'm thinking of making a speedster out of it. I could still use parts if needed. RHL
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Looking thru some of my old parts catalogs for some Hershell-Spillman listings, I noticed a great deal of confusion in the 7000 and 11000 engine listings...
They seemed to go back and forth as to whether either was a 4 or a 6, and whether the bore was 31/4 or 31/2...
An occasional misprint is common, but there were a whole bunch of these...
Then in the engines section of a 1924 piston catalog I find:
7000---4, 6, 8 cyl---31/4 bore
11000---4, 6 cyl---31/2 bore...as if these engines were issued in 4 and 6cyl versions (leave alone the V8)...
Both a 30 McCord and a 38 Vic gasket catalog show
7000---4cyl---31/2 bore
11000---6cyl---31/4 bore
Does anyone here know if H-S actually issued either of these engines in both 4 and 6 versions and/or in the two bores, or is this a case of
misprint contagion??
Hershell-Spillman 4 cyl. 3 1/4 X 5 16.9 hp
4 cyl. 3 1/2 X 5 19.6 hp
6 cyl. 3 1/4 X 5 24.35 hp
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Anyone reading this please pipe in about your experiences at Hershey, 2014 if you made it there. If you saw any Peerlesses(like the '29 Six-81 Sedan Pistorius Restorations has FS), Peerless parts, or went to the Peerless Booth --- it would be great to hear. I wasn't able to go this year.
I was told that no one was at the Peerless booth. Don't know what happened to Ralph. RHL
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We had a great tour. We had a few showers on Friday but we were on the brewery tour and we did not get wet. The second oldest continual operating brewery in the USA. Then the cheese factory tour and cheese museum. We now know everything there is to know about cheese. Even had cheese fondu. Saturday was a bright sunny day, 75 degrees with slight breeze.
Couldn't ask for better weather. We were all touring together on back roads to Broadhead in the morning and heard a radial engine overhead, it was Bill Knight in his 1931 Waco bi-plane welcoming us to Broadhead, what a site!!! We had coffee and donuts at Bills auto museum and shop. Bill landed and drove his Peerless back to the shop and joined us. We proceeded about a mile down the road to the airport and had a special parking area for us with the planes. This is the largest grass airport in the USA with three runways. There were about 250 antique aircraft there. What a site. Bill took several Peerless members up in his Waco. We spent most of the day there. On the tour back to the chalet we stopped at a Swiss cheese factory and purchased cheese and home made ice cream, made it back in time for cocktails and banquet. Sunday we all headed for home. Great gathering of Eagles. We have over 100 pictures and will put them into our next special Co-Operator. RHL
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We are making the final arrangements for the Peerless Meet on September 4th, 5th & 6th at the Swiss Village of New Glarus, Wisconsin. It should be a fun time touring cheese factories and breweries and staying at a Swiss Chalet. Hope to see you Peerless fans there.
RHL President of the Peerless Motor Car Club
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I think a car would need 2 Continentals to develop enough horsepower to compete with the better high end competition.
I had never heard about the Continental acquisition attempt. It was a mistake, in my opinion, to go so heavily into Continental 6's and 8's. The so-called Collins 6 was superior and Peerless should have continued to develop the in-house V8.
Perhaps Peerless should have gone FWD and aligned with Bucciali.
During the first world war Peerless did build fwd trucks under contract for FWD of Wisconsin. I do agree with you about the engines. Peerless had some very good engineers, the problem was all the stock take-overs and management changes that screwed things up. The Collins Six was designed by Cadillac and evidently Cadillac didn't buy it so Collins brought it to Peerless with another buy out and take-over, but that's another story. The Peerless V-8 was a very good engine but they dropped it in favor of the straight 8. That may have had something to do with the narrower hood designs. Peerless was one of the first with 4 wheel hydraulic brakes in 1924 but went back to mechanical brakes in 1930.
No one can answer that one. If only we could find the Peerless archives----then we would be able to answer some of these questions.
RHL
What is this frame?
in General Discussion
Posted
This is a Doctors buggy frame and axles and auto wheels and seat.