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Terry Wiegand

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Posts posted by Terry Wiegand

  1. It seems as though I spoke incorrectly earlier.  The bearings in the front wheels of a 1920 Buick would be identified as ND (New Departure).  New Departure and Hyatt did not merge until the middle 1960's.  Everything else in my previous posting should be factually correct.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  2. The numbers from the Buick Master Parts List are not going to be of any help with regard to the Bearing Interchange Manual.  What is needed is the actual number that is on the bearing cone proper.  This number will be an NDH (New Departure Hyatt) and the number assigned to that particular bearing.  The numbers in the Master Parts List are what Buick Motor Company assigned to each particular bearing for their identification purposes.  If you can give me the bearing number, I can more than likely give you a bearing identification number from another bearing manufacturer that will interchange.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  3. Can you get the name and number from the existing bearing(s)?  I have a Bearing Interchange Book and can help you out if you have the number.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  4. The fellow who is going to do the machine work on the bushing for me schooled me on the use of Garlock packing material.  I am going to use this in the Teflon form when things are set back.  If you go on their website you will see that this packing is available in quite a few different sizes.  He tells me that the way to use this material is to make it wrap around the shaft and make a baloney cut to butt the ends together.  Put the second piece with the cut 180 degrees from the first cut.  I think you get the idea how this works.  By doing this the packing nut can be hand tightened to control the coolant.  He also told me that it is OK for the bushing to 'weep' a bit during operation.  I had always been led to believe that these water pumps were not supposed to leak.  I'm finding out that this isn't true.  Larry found out just how much heat is generated by a rotating shaft in the packing material.  I truly believe that the problem I had was from an inadequate clearance bushing that could possibly have been slightly out-of-round.  I just got really lucky that something did not get torn up.  Hugh gave a good explanation as to how these pumps are constructed.  I asked about these lip seals that are being talked about and used.  I was told that these will also wear on the shaft in time.  Where is Walter Marr when you need him?

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

    • Like 4
  5. Andy just mentioned something that I think is very important and for whatever reason I haven't said anything about until now.  The packing material plays a VERY important role in the operation of these water pumps.  IF the packing is squeezed too tight it can and will cause heat that will destroy things.  I do not believe that this was the cause in my case.  The bushing was machined to finish size and then pressed into place.  That was the absolute WRONG thing to do.  The bushing should have been left undersize, pressed in, and then bored to print specs.  It will be done that way with the new bushing.  As Ed says, "Old Cars Ain't Easy".

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

    • Like 5
  6. Pulling the engine was really not the thing that I was looking forward to.  However, it had to be about halfway out to remove the timing gears cover.  Taking the water pump assembly off the engine is a pain in the a double s anyway you look at it.  Things will definitely be done a little different with the bushing this time around.  The guys at Abrahams Machine sure were happy to hear that the engine did not have any problems.  This will definitely speed things up toward getting the car back together.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  7. Here is a photo of the bushing failure result.  The only reasonable explanation that I can come up with is that the bushing I.D. was finished to size before being pressed in place.  This could have caused the clearance to become undersized or to have had the diameter become somewhat out-of-round.  I cannot say any of this for sure.  What I can say is that things will definitely be done in a different way this time.  As my long time friend used to tell me - "Live and learn and then die and forget it all".

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

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    • Like 1
  8. Hugh,

    I do remember the problems that you and Larry had with your water pumps.  I would like to add that this pump on my engine is definitely a different animal than what you guys have.  The cover (the front end of the pump) is a very close fit into the pump housing (body) and I had a devil of a time separating the two once the Silicone Sealer was in place.  The close fit is a good thing in this case as it ensures that the two bushing bores are concentric with each other on the same axis.  I am thinking that opening up the bushing I. D. by .002" should be a real good thing in this case.  I will also add that there is absolutely no marring, scuffing, scraping, or anything on the O.D. of the shaft in the bushing area.  Once I got everything all apart I figured that there would at least be some evidence of rotating shaft damage.  Absolutely nothing.  I am not the least bit ashamed to admit that I really missed seeing this one.  I was ready to throw out the Aluminum pistons and start over.  This just goes to show that a person is never too old or too smart to learn something every day.  I sure did in this case.  Putting things back together should go a lot easier and faster this time - I got experience on my resume😁.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

    • Like 4
  9. Rock,

    Yes, it could have been done without pulling the engine completely out of the frame.  The engine still would have had to been lifted on the front end so that the timing gears cover could be removed.  As I said earlier, once the water pump impellor is staked to the shaft it changes how far things can move on the shaft and that is where having the shaft go forward lets the pump housing come off the back end of the shaft.  There just isn't any other way to get things out of the gear case end without removing the cover.  When I was putting the engine together the first time I tried fitting things in place without going out the front end and it just simply would not allow that to physically happen

     

    Ed,

    The material used in the water pump shaft was a stainless alloy chosen for its high wear resistance.  Going another route could have given high corrosion resistance capabilities.  I opted for the tougher material for long wear properties.  I will certainly ask about the Naval Bronze material for the replacement.  To answer your question - No, the shaft material was not heat treated.  The material callout for the shaft was Cold Rolled Steel.  By using the Stainless I really upgraded over what was used originally.  I think you have a good idea about opening the I. D. of the bushing up a bit.  The Graphite impregnated packing that I used really did a good job of containing the coolant on the shaft.  You are absolutely right in saying that Old Cars Ain't Easy.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

     

     

    • Like 3
  10. At about 5:00 o'clock this afternoon the problem was discovered.  The bushing in the water pump housing had failed and was almost locked up tight.  Once the water pump shaft was separated from the timing gears the engine turns over just like it did when we brought it home from the rebuild shop.  I have heard of something like this happening before but I sure never would have thought that this would be the problem in this case.  I and my long time friend rebuilt the water pump.  Another friend machined the new shaft for me using The Buick Motor Company Engineering Department Drawing Specifications.  I machined the pump housing and pump cover bushings using Buick Motor Company Specifications for those two pieces.  What could possibly go wrong using factory specs?  I simply do not have the answer for this.  Could it have been material failure?  I thought I had a good grade of Brass for these parts.  The pump housing bushing will be pressed out and we will start over with a new bushing.  I am so thankful that the engine will not have to be broken down and gone into again.  All that I can say at this point is "WHO WOULDA THUNK".

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918  

    • Like 6
  11. I think that I can report some good news here.  The timing gear case cover needed to come off so that the water pump shaft assembly could be removed.  After looking everything over very carefully it appears that there was no damage done to the timing gears.  When I removed all of the roller lifter assemblies they appeared to be in excellent condition also.  For anyone who has ever worked on one of these early 6-Cylinder engines they know that there are certain ways that things have to be done to either disassemble or assemble the water pump shaft and its components.  Once the water pump impellor is staked to the shaft that changes how everything is done from that point forward.  I am just very happy that things appear OK to this point.  The next BIG concern is the crankshaft.  Dave has told me that they will check that over very carefully.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

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    • Like 4
  12. Andy, 

    That makes a whole bunch of us.  All of the valve cages have been removed and the pockets plugged.  All of the lifter assemblies have been removed and the whole valve train is ready to be cleaned, bagged, and ready for re-assembly.  The guys at Abrahams are OK with my opening up the timing gear case so that the water pump shaft can be removed.  That is the only thing that I will do and this will give a quick look/see at that area.  This has really bugged the daylights out of me as to what went wrong inside.  Two weeks from today the engine will be setting in the shop and we will be on our way to the Red Flag Tour.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

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    • Like 5
  13. Here is another installment of this sob story about the Buick.  It was exactly three weeks ago that the engine seized up.  It is out of the car and being prepared for the trip back to the shop.  Scuffing and scraping can be seen on the thrust side of #2 cylinder.  It will certainly be interesting to find out what happened.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

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    • Like 4
  14. When Gary Martin was putting the new upholstery in our 1916 D-45, he found this Buick Motor Company document stuffed behind the rear passenger door panel.  This gives factory documentation that this car was built in October of 1915.  We can factually say that this car is indeed a 'Brass Era' automobile since it was built before January 1st, 1916.  We like to think of this document as the 'birth certificate' for this Buick.  This was a very incredible surprise to say the least.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

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    • Like 7
  15. Tom,

    On my '20 K-46 they are round leather washers with a split rivet holding them in place.  The thickness of the leather is of importance also.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  16. Has anyone heard or talked with Marty Roth?  I know that he is in the New Orleans area and we sure hope that they are OK.  The pictures on the news doesn't look good at all for these folks in this part of the country.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  17. Ramair,

    No disrespect intended here.  You have a delicate problem on your hands.  I am sure that you are correct in saying that the external threads on the neck are in good shape.  Your problem is getting that ring off without messing up the threads.  You might try passing a heat gun over the ring and see if that will expand it enough to put a shop towel over it and use a pair of Channellock pliers to loosen it up.  You really need to get that filler neck plugged for a whole lot of reasons.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

    • Like 1
  18. That threaded filler neck on the top radiator tank looks absolutely awful.  I would take a set of calipers and measure the inside diameter of the tube and head for the nearest Ace Hardware store and get a rubber plug and get it securely in place so as to keep crap from falling into the tank and causing problems in the radiator and water pump.  The fact that the cap is 'pot metal' really doesn't leave you with a lot of options.  You might consider trying to find a nice brass 'dogbone' cap with the proper I.D. thread and go that route.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  19. The fact that it is 'flat' helps narrow it down a bit.  On the 1916 6-Cylinder models the fenders went to the 'crowned' style at some point early in the production year.  If you could use a digital camera instead of a phone you would get a whole lot better photos.  It is hard to tell if the fender is for a 4-Cylinder or 6-Cylinder model without being able to see the whole thing in a photo.  A few dimensions using  a steel tape would be helpful also.  I have an early production 1916 D-45 and I know what the width is at the running board (front) end.  This doesn't look like my left side rear fender.  My suspicion is that this might be for a 4-Cylinder car because of the details in the last photo.  The fenders from my car are not configured like this one is.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

  20. The steering column has been removed and is laying in the corner in our rec room.  We have to protect that nicely finished steering wheel.  I will post photos when the engine is out of the car again.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

    • Like 6
  21. This is where things are as of late Sunday afternoon.  The steering column will be the next thing removed so that the front of the body can be raised to let the engine clear the bottom of the cowl.   We are suffering from a bad case of severe sunshine here in Doo Dah.  The wind chill was 104 degrees at 4:00 o'clock.  It took us a good hour and a half to pull the transmission.  More photos later.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

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    • Like 4
    • Thanks 1
  22. Thank you Terry for the compliments.  There just isn't much else to do but keep pushing forward real hard.  I have had a gazillion thoughts running through my mind since this happened.  As Ed has said, it could possibly be a cam bearing issue or a cylinder wall/piston issue.  I'm sure that Tighe Halloway will get to the bottom of things in short order.  We had planned to take the car on The Red Flag Tour next month.  I am hoping that I can get the engine pulled out in the next week or so and we will take it with us when we go up for the tour.  Davenport, Iowa is around 75 miles from Mount Pleasant and we will drop it off at the shop on the way home.  Something to keep in mind is the configuration of these early caged-valve Buick engines.  All of the cylinder work has to come in through the bottom since there is no removable head.  IF this turns out to be a piston related problem, I'm not so sure that I am going to want to go back with another set from the same company.  During the rebuilding process Tighe and I visited quite a bit about what was being done and the reasons behind why certain things were being done the way they were.  He took the time to explain the cylinder wall/aluminum piston clearance requirements to me.  To say that this is bugging me is a huge understatement.  As that old saying goes - crap happens.

     

    Terry Wiegand

    South Hutchinson, Kansas

    AACA Life Member #947918

    • Like 4
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