JoelsBuicks

Gary and Ernie, thank you for the nice words. When I have to improvise on certain wood pieces I often wonder just how close I came to building it like it was done the first time. This is the case with the front roof wood above the windshield that captures the end of the wood slats that hold up the roof fabric. There was just nothing left to duplicate. Frankly, this car came with too many pieces missing. Just to digress a bit, it truly is a problem when you get a car that someone else started restoring and passed away. What makes it worse is when the heirs of these cars neither shared the passion nor had enough of a connection or emotional investment to help make sure that the project got the best shot at being successful. What you're left with is a pile of pieces and parts that were gathered in haste and subsequently represented as "that's all there is." I shouldn't complain because I got what I bought or should I say bought what I got. It's all a bit sad but a good lesson none the less. This front roof piece - maybe I'll call it a header was made out of white oak. I felt that a little more strength is in order. I also want no doubt that it will hold the screws that secure the ends of the slats. I would bet that this looks nothing like the original but it should work and when the car is finished, it will remain hidden until someone has to make another - hopefully long after I'm gone. Thanks, Joel

I am unsure what to call these pieces of metal but the pics should help. The pieces make up the top of the door jamb on the 31 body and are directly above each door when the doors are closed. I only have each front door piece and do not have either rear door piece. I'm curious as to whether or not other GM cars would share the same body part and certainly interested if anyone has or knows of a source for this metal. Thank you. Joel

Thanks again, it seems that the consensus is that parts are not unobtainable. I can deal with that. Appreciate the response, Joel

Thank you all for weighing in on this. My concerne is that this car might have an engine that was maybe a one or two year only that only appeared on a single model. Do you know if this is the case? I may have a lead on a '27 engine close to my house but I know nothing about it either. Also, what else should I look for that may be nearly impossible to find? A rear bumper perhaps? One thing is for certain, you could go and get this car and be upside down on it - even if it had a $5000 bill taped to it. But still I'm a sucker for them. I really see this at around $2K and therefore will probably not get it. As for the wood, I'm getting better and faster as I go through my '31. As long as this car has remnants of pattern wood left, I won't worry too much about that. Who knows, it may be sufficiently solid that I just have to fortify the joints. Thanks again, Joel

When you view these pics, please keep in mind that none of this is permanently glued , screwed or nailed, except the cowl wood and base sill wood. In other words, I'm still in the fit stage. Truth be told, I've had a few too many fits. One thing I know is that it will be difficult to reverse course once this wood is permanently installed. Mostly this is because I will use a seam sealer as sort of a "bond" between metal and wood. This will help prevent any squeaks. Once that stuff sets up, it will be nearly impossible to separate. Also, good wood glue will be used on the joints. Nothing else much to report, just remember it all comes back apart. Thanks, Joel

Please allow me to switch gears momentarily. Long before I found a '36 Buick in real bad need of a carpenter, my hobby was building furniture. If you've ever priced walnut or cherry wood, you know that you'll end up with hundreds of dollars in a project before you ever start. Add to that the fact that I grew up in the shadows of huge walnut trees. In short, I was just a sawmill away from having my own supply of hardwood. In 1992, I met a gentleman in Missouri that owned a very old sawmill. A few years before that, he was crippled by a tree that fell on him; he can still get around but with much difficulty. This essentially ended his sawmilling days and the old mill needed a new home. I made a deal for the mill and spent the next year modernizing it and building a shed for it. All of the old wooden structural components were replaced with steel and it was set up in a concrete foundation. I built a solar kiln to dry the wood and soon I had a lifetime supply. It's amazing how fast time goes by and now the mill looks old again. I still run it from time to time. Back in about 1996, a friend called me from Memphis and told me to come and get a cypress tree that was pulled from the Mississippi River. It was a log that was 77 ft long. To make a long story short, It's now part of my '31. The blade is 48" diameter and it is powered by a 6-cylinder combine engine. It's dangerous to say the least. When people heard that I had a mill, the logs just started coming. Thanks again, Joel

The Roof. I used to have a dog that was infatuated with my roof. It's all she ever talked about. When you have absolutely none of the old roof wood, you are left desperately looking for any and every clue that will give you some sort of starting point. The only comfort you enjoy is; most of this will never be seen and, you can always start over. If you ever thought that rotted wood was a really bad thing, just think of no wood at all - it's many times worse. Exhausting all reasonable sources of information, I moved ahead. I started with the last thing first, the ten slats. They go the length of the roof and sit atop the bows. A big chunk of clear cypress was reduced to just under 7/16" thick and about 1-7/8" wide. Then, I made the bows. The bows run across the car and support the slats and they do have a subtle curve. I decided to maintain the same curve on the underside of the bows as well. They are mortised into the rails that flank the slats and support the roof metal and the strip that helps hold the roof fabric. I did not evenly space the bows along the rails, instead I concentrated more of them towards the rear where the roof curve is more pronounced and would therefore subjected to more downward force resulting from forcing the straight slats to take this curve. The whole thing was glued and screwed. Forgive me for deviated from whatever original looked like, the evidence will soon be concealed. Thanks again, more to come..... Joel

Thank you for that helpful advice. In fact, I did pretty much what you suggested and did a temporary fit into their respective places and made some measurements and marks that will guide the final glue-up for this wood. I was surprised to find that my old course of action was taking me about 3/16" away from having good door margins on the driver's side and about an 1/8" off on the passenger's side. Once the back half is married to the front half, this would have been difficult to change. On another note, I wanted to post about using T-nuts for some of the wood pieces. It's fairly commonly known that re-wooding can't always be done as originally because there were many screws that were used and then the metal placed atop the wood, thereby covering the screw head. Essentially we are left with putting the wood inside the metal instead. Such is the case with the horizontal wood piece that tucks in below the rear quarter window. The pic shows the use of the T-nuts that are imbedded into the back of this piece. They will mount to a vertical member behind the rear quarter window. The other pic is the glue-up of the rear door post. This piece is still removable from the body.

There is a 1928 on Craigslist: http://shreveport.craigslist.org/cto/5404343816.html. I called the guy and he doesn't know much at all about the car, not even a model or series. I admit that I don't know either. When I called he came way down on the listed price so I know it's negotiable. I'm interested in this car but you can see that it has lost its head and rear bumperand other parts I'm sure. So what is the model and how hard would a replacement engine be to source and what does a person really need to know before he drives 6 hours to go and look? Thanks

Thank you for the nice words. I get recharged when I hear about others going through this process. I remind myself often that almost no wood will show when this car is finished. And, for that reason, I have to make sure that fit and functionality come before beauty and time is of the essence. One close look and you'd see the saw marks, chisel slips, gaps and occasional patches. I am facing very soon the task of building my doors. The wood pieces are ready but I have to find a way to make sure that I don't build a twist into a door. I'll probably make some sort of cradle to hold the skin square or flat or whatever you call it and then add in the wood. I'm open for suggestions. My car has approximately 116 pieces of wood. Some pieces take a few minutes and others a few days; but it's always nice when you get one done! Thanks again, Joel

Thank you all very much again for your help with my question. Now, I can move forward with confidence about the correct dimension. Pacrat, thank you for the pics. The 32 is significantly different than 31 but I find it interesting that the sill piece is pieced together both in thickness and width. It looks like red oak but hard to tell for sure from the pics. Ernie, after learning that the dimension is the same across the different models, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for the 1930. Just a few days ago I found your thread on the AACA forum. You have documented the old wood and I may need to get with you for how the wood was configured at the upper rear and front top where my wood was completely gone. Thanks again, Joel

I believe that's the vacuum pump portion. My 31-67 doesn't have that part. I suppose my wipers will operate via carb vacuum but I haven't gotten that far yet.

31 Buick rad shell was done two months ago for $900. It had slight surface rust and a couple very small dents. I sandblasted the inside surface to get rid of some heavier rust. It came back looking like a piece of jewelry. The luster seems slightly more "bluish" as did all of the pieces that were done. After reading the posts, the $900 I spent doesn't hurt quite so bad. My chrome work was done by Wells Bumpers in Collinsville, OK. I hesitate to say this but my gut feel is that if you choose the lower quality prep job, then you've given the chromer the permission to cut every corner and that you'll accept this no matter how unacceptable it may be. I have read on several posts that most reputable chromers offer only one quality option - their best. Good luck, Joel

It seems that I will forever be plagued with asking myself what I want to work on today. I could and probably should have some method or organized approach but I don't. I guess that's because I view structure more as a burden than a benefit. As an example, I spent a good bit of my vacation time on Monday clearing a fence row with Dad's 60 year old Cat D6 dozer. He watches from a chair that I've set up just a few yards away. I grew up and old on this dozer and nursed it through its years but I never had the knack. When I've had enough clearing, I help Dad onto the dozer and at 81, he shows that he can still make that machine do what he wants. Today and everyday I am thankful that he is still around - my biggest cheerleader. I decided that I would start on the wood that is surrounding or framing the rear window. I had only one piece of the old wood and you'll see it in the pic with the four new pieces. You'll also notice the thin paneling that I used to make a pattern. While these pieces are not finished, the hard part is done and just the lap joints remain. Another pic shows double 3/4" plywood corner pieces that I made for the rear corners of the car. Maybe this is cheating a bit but I want to make sure they are strong and not vulnerable to grain direction weakness. I'll use tongue and groove joinery for these and some screws. Again, you'll see the plywood pattern I made that contours to the metal. Lastly, I wanted to show the inside of the rear door post. There has been questions about the piece of wood that goes up and behind the rear quarter window metal. The question is how the horizontal piece will go in. The vertical mortise will receive the tenon of the cross piece and then the other end of the horizontal piece will be screwed to the last vertical wood - of course the screws are in reverse of how they were originally. Once the cross piece is up in its place behind the metal, just push it into the mortise. Lot's of good wood glue and two small angled screws will secure the mortise and tenon joint. Thanks again, Joel

I've also been working on the top rails. These pieces go from the top of the windshield to the back of the car behind the rear quarter windows. They are mortised for the center post and rear door post. In one of the pics, you'll see the rear post fitted and the piece of wood just above the rear quarter window. None of this is glued yet because I haven't figured out the right sequence and you only get one chance with glue. There will also be screws used - just like original but in some cases, the screws will have to be used on the opposite side of the joints because the wood is being built into the metal instead of metal built around a wood frame. These top rails have been fitted to the metal of the car. An interesting note is that these top rails are not flat. They have about a 3/4" crown in the middle that matches the curved profile of the top of the side doors. Another pic shows the passenger wheel wood that was discussed in an earlier post. There is a steel brace that fits against that wood piece and ties into the sill wood at the bottom of the car. There are all sorts of clues as to how the wood was done, the trick is to recognize them.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. I thought I'd take advantage of this quiet morning and post some more pics of my progress. These pics are of one of my center posts with the new wood. There's not much to say except that I'm glad these are behind me. The original wood was well rotted at both ends and on both pieces. The original wood that was wrapped in metal was still in good shape. I think if I had this to do all over again I would find a way to splice in new wood at the ends and leave the rest for another 85 years.

Wow, it looks like you're right, the body dimension transcends the model - at least at this point. I'm very surprised but pleasantly surprised because I am confident that I can use the 59-1/4 or 59-1/2 and be right. On Tuesday, I took another look and using the new wood post that I have made, the metal, when pressed tight against the wood is pulling in slightly on both sides. I'm going to be in good shape. Pacrat, can you do me a favor and post another pic of your sill wood but on the other side? It doesn't look like what I have but I'd still like to see the other side. Thank you all so much for taking the time to measure your cars. You all suspected something that I didn't and I learned something very useful. Joel

I'm still hoping for a measurement from someone who has a '31 - 67. I can always build the door to fit the opening but I'd like to get that opening as right as possible. Without the wood and without the metal brace, the sides are free to move. My doors are, at this time, without any wood and so do not offer any clue as to shape. I'm quickly nearing this decision point so if you know someone with one of these cars, send me a PM with contact information. Thank you, Joel

First, thanks again for the very nice words. The curved piece over the wheel well is actually several pieces laminated - probably as many as six pieces if I remember correctly. I glued them all up and then squared up the resulting chunks into something about 5" x 5" x about 20". Then I made some patterns out of thin 1/4" plywood that I could easily cut and make them fit the metal contours. I used those plywood patterns to mark the chunk and then cut the rough profile on my band saw. It's important to add that I often have to take the waste piece and use double sided tape to temporarily put it back together so that I can use the flat side against my band saw's table to cut another curve. The sequence of cuts is important and it takes a while for me to think my way through it. Getting that joint between the post and the curved piece is tricky but once I realized that the inside edges on both pieces were on the same plane, I just placed those faces against the fence on the table saw and made that cut - just like the old one. I really wish I could get someone to measure the width of their 31-67 at the belt of the car - as pictured in my recent post in the Pre-war section. It was suggested that I could just use the door to get the right fit and that would work if my doors had their original wood but they are void of wood and just limp metal, so they have no shape. I guess I'll have to build the doors to fit the opening as that is the ultimate goal. I need to get my pics updated to show more of the work that I've done around the rear quarter windows and the top sides of the car. Permanently marrying the back half of the car to the front half is something that I have avoided so far. It's decisions like this that some days has me going to the shop and doing nothing but thinking. By the way, the center post wood was inserted by prying open the metal and then using some broad putty knives and a masonry margin trowel like you would a shoehorn. Again, I need to get some pics. If that sounded easy then I have mislead you. The center post wood has more angles, curves, ledges, cut-outs, tapers, and bugaboo's than I care to remember. Lastly, as encouragement, I now have almost all of my chrome back from the chromer and safely stored away. Thanks again, Joel

Ernie, I'll see if I can better answer your questions. I have some pics that might help. First, I've read about many people using ash and quoting that it is what they were originally. Although I have yet to identify any original wood as being ash, I see nothing wrong at all with using it; it's strong and machines well. In my cars, there are many pieces that are almost completely rotted away and those could have been ash. Perhaps I don't know my ash from a hole in the ground. My ash supply has been thoroughly invaded and ruined by the powder post beetle and that is why I don't use it. I even made an auxiliary table saw fence out of ash and those beetles ruined it as well. I mentioned in an earlier posting that I was concerned that cypress wouldn't hold screws but it turns out that it does very well. The front door hinge posts are nearly wrapped by the post metal but not enough (with a little persuasion) to prevent removal of the old wood and inserting the new. I did have to pull open the metal but not too much and nothing more than what I could do with my hands. Probably what is most important is that the new post has to be fashioned just like the old. That is, you have to pay attention to every dimension because you essentially have to "roll" this piece in around its vertical axis. There's more to it. The cross piece behind it has to be there in position for the final fit-up. Also, the bottom pieces on each side have to be removed before the post can be placed. Of course, the top metal piece above the windshield has to be off as well. I have put more time than I care to recall in the thought process of sequencing the wood replacement. Once the glue is applied, reversing is hardly an option. I'm still having problems with the top part of the wood structure because there were no patterns left and the books aren't very detailed. I'm also struggling with the right sequence for putting the top rail wood in permanently - which will mean that the back half of the car will be married to the front half and for that reason, the wood surrounding the rear quarter windows will go in permanently which in turn, fixes the positions of some other frame pieces around the rear door. I don't have the rear door wood ready yet because I may have to make small adjustments to build the door to fit its opening. I'll get through it. Good Luck, Joel

I just reread your post and my reply and I completely botched that. Give me another chance next week when I'm back home and I'll tell you about the dreaded hinge post. Thanks, Joel

Ernie, I'm on a business trip this week and have limited time to respond but the rear quarter wood involves two steps that differ from original construction. First, in the rear door hinge post, make your mortise longer than normal so that you can install the cross board and then push it up so that it effectively fits under the window frame. On the other end, instead of fastening to the outside, you can put the screws in from the back and then screw into the cross piece. I'm butchering this explanation but it's the best I can do without pics. As for the center pillar, the method I used was to use cement margin trowels like you'd use a shoe horn. Those center pillar wood pieces are not for the faint of heart! I gotta go but I'll reply later with some more info. Thanks, Joel

I have at least two body repair manuals that cover this car and neither gets close to providing the information I need. I'm hoping to get a measurement on a like model. Have you seen manuals that have this kind of information? Perhaps I don't have the right one. Thanks, Joel

Problem is that I have no idea if it would help. I suppose that in the absence of any other measurement, it would be more than I had. I read my tape measure at 60-1/16" and so if your measurement was ~close~ to that it might be good to know. Let's give this some time and I'll let you know. Thanks so much for your offer to help. Joel

I am in the process of rewooding my '31 8-67 and there is a body width measurement that I need. I hope that the pics will clearly show what and where to measure. Basically it is a width measurement across the body at the rear door hinge posts. I have this feeling that my unsupported body has "slumped" a little. I'm talking about my car! Thank you, Joel