JanZverina
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Posts posted by JanZverina
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Wow. The two images of the engine bay seem to indicate they spent little time on anything there other than darkening the photos to make the engine color look more acceptable. All for hoping for an $18,400 flip minus transpo expenses?
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The odd thing was that the actual sign was one of those fabric sail panels that retract into the base, i.e. something seen at more professional trade shows. Pretty good graphics, etc. But yes, he didn't have the text spell-checked (at the very least), and as mentioned, some of those numbers don't appear to be grounded in verified research if available. Maybe the buyer will contact ROA at some point and ask for help in bringing this car up a notch or two. Or maybe he's already looking to flip it. At any rate, it will be a reality check for sure!
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I attended the McCormick Auction in Palm Springs CA this weekend, where a '65 GS was hammered sold at $41,500, apparently with no reserve. I would say the car was a Condition #3 at best. The engine compartment left a lot to be desired, starting with the engine block color and various missing vacuum lines - feel free to comment. Newer exterior paint but lots of amateur-level touch-ups and an aftermarket wood steering wheel. Some interesting reading on the signage next to the car.
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Hi Adam,
I've been following your projects for many years and admire your craftsmanship as well as your documentation skills for the forum. Probably an uninformed question, but does leaving polyester in what I assume are the low spots create any issues for those who may still run a magnet over a panel to see if there's "bondo"? And, is the poly a pretty stable filler over the long haul given temp changes, shrinkage, etc.?
Keep up the good work and updates!
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I had a beautiful 1964 Skylark Wildcat 310 coupe many moons ago that lurched out unexpectedly into oncoming traffic one day. The solution was that chain link holding down the engine some solid engine mounts were available shortly thereafter. Those mounts were the first thing I replaced when I acquired my '63 Riv in 2015, just to be on the safe side. Peace of mind for me and others, as they say.
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On 11/9/2019 at 11:25 AM, telriv said:
Yes, what Ed mentioned is for a stock replacement AFB. The DynaFlow linkage needs to be hooked up to work properly. Throttle shafts could be swapped from an original carb. ALSO, the carb. top plate where the choke blade sits can be swapped for an original top plate so the air filter is pointing in the proper direction with the air cleaner tabs.
Hi telriv,
Could you be more specific as to what should specifically be checked for when hooking up the DynaFlow linkage with an Edelbrock1406 or a non-period 4GG/AFB carb?
I took my Riv out for an extended run last weekend, and while I don't press usually my luck by stomping on the 'GO' pedal of a 56 year-old car too often, it appears to run quite well and my nose is already sensing much reduced fuel vapors in my garage after such a run. Plus I may be getting (slightly) better MPG, although that's not a big priority for me as it's relegated to pleasure cruising and smaller runs. I'm also aware from this forum that its 20-gal tank typically means a 200-mile cruising range, with not much forgiveness.
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Jon wrote:
"I know you posted that the engine is now strong and smooth with the clone; but would highly suggest that if the rebuild shop can figure out what they did incorrectly with the Rochester, you would be better off with it rebuilt than the clone and even a full refund!"
Jon.
Hi Jon:
My experience of late, meaning the last 2-3 years as 4GCs are apparently getting thin on the ground, has been that once someone else has worked on them (and most rebuilders can tell, according to my experience), that they're considered "damaged goods" and no one wants to touch them. I'll hold on to the 4GC for sure, and yes, it would be good to find out what the problem was.
As mentioned earlier in my ROA thread, when at first the rebuilt 4CG wasn't getting any fuel upon re-installation in my '63 Riv, the rebuilder said the 4GC was "over engineered" so he threw out the tiny springs below the floats (that's what he said, I didn't see them myself) and said it should be good to go. That's when all the sputtering and stalling began, and after a 2nd revisit with the carb installed he swore up and down that it wasn't the carb. So after two trips back there to make things right, I'm not confident he's going to make things any better. Still, I plan to let him know that the main issue was indeed the carb despite his protestations.
TelRiv says:
"The DynaFlow linkage needs to be hooked up to work properly. Throttle shafts could be swapped from an original carb. ALSO, the carb. top plate where the choke blade sits can be swapped for an original top plate so the air filter is pointing in the proper direction with the air cleaner tabs."
I'll take the Riv out for a spin again but all seems to be in order. Using the factory air filter housing is not an issue but I'd like to be able to share some info with my shop if something with the DynaFlow linkage has to be done. I'm not having any drive-ability issues, but I also didn't hammer on the old girl as I drove it home. I was glad that it was pulling like a freight train on inclines and idling well in thicker traffic, which is the new norm in San Diego unless you pick your drive times carefully.
RivNut Ed wrote:
"It would probably okay to post a picture of the entire (1960 Electra) if the rest of it looks as nice as everything in this picture."
I'd be glad to, but it was a 10-footer - very complete and mostly original except for a distant repaint in original colors, and was dead reliable and well cared for by a previous owner in Texas. I sold it in 2015 (to fund the '63 Riv, which to me is a landmark design) to a Finnish collector who owned an import/export business with a port in LA. He sent a local driver and flatbed to San Diego to inspect it and the buyer paid asking price on the spot. Hope he's enjoying it! During my seven-year stewardship it was accepted to the snooty La Jolla CA Concours some years back and drew a lot of interest, much to the chagrin of others. I'll dig out some pix if you want. Like the first-gen Riv, the '60 Electra was somethign else.
Appreciate all your collective the input and continued education!
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Thanks, Ed. I always thought that was the positions from all the Riview pix, etc. I knew about the alignment tabs but I guess with the new setup one could point the inlet tube to the right, as it was on my '60 Electra. (It's OK to post an Electra pix on the ROA forum, right?)
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I didn't know we had to do anything w/ that linkage. Isn't the Edelbrock basically a Carter design that they took over? RivNut's response up 7 messages in this thread indicated nothing was needed, but maybe that's for a swap between a 4GC and an original AFB.
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Latest update: The carb shop in LA let us know that the 4GC he had for rebuild failed the on-engine tests and he's still looking into why. So my mechanic suggested we try an Edelbrock 1406 w/ electric choke and now the Riv is running strong and smooth. Picked it up today - drove it on coastal roads and freeway and no issues at all. So... as mentioned I have to have a conversation with the shop that "rebuilt" my 4GC to see if we can come to some agreement on a refund or partial refund. Any suggestions on what's fair? I know some of you are in the repair business and time is $$, but I paid ~$450 plus to get a well-performing carb and that was not the case.
BTW we used a small adapter so I could retain the original large red air cleaner housing. I always thought its air intake pointed toward the power steering pump but page 3-7 of the factory Chassis Manual is not exactly clear. It says "standard" 4 bbl air cleaners should have the air inlet tube positioned about 15 degrees to the right of the center line of the engine. I take that to mean passenger side. The text does mention "except Riviera engines" but it's not very clear.
Thanks, glad to be nearing the end of this project.
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Thanks Jon and Ed. Good to know it's a direct replacement.
I'm waiting on the 4GC but I still would like to eventually find an appropriate Carter AFB for my '63 without fear of inheriting someone else's potential issues. Is there a tin tag # or casting # that denotes a '63 or are they generally all the same from 19xx to 19xx on the Riv or a slightly earlier model?
Thanks again. I'll keep everyone updated on any progress later this week.
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Latest update for those still following along:
After eliminating any (or at least most) fuel tank and line issues by running a fuel hose from a 5-gallon container to the fuel pump inlet and still getting the same symptoms, I broke out my AAA Plus card yesterday and had the Riv flat-bedded to another shop that specializes in vintage car repair and is known for its electrical diagnostics. After a half-day of diagnostics, they concluded that the carb is still the culprit. Ignition system (including Pertronix), advance/timing, fuel pump and filter (both new), etc. all tested fine. He sourced another 4GC from a carb builder in LA who engine-tests all his carbs. The other option was getting an Edelbrock and then having to fabricate the linkages and get the massive Riviera air filter housing to fit properly.
More news mid-next week. If it turns out that it was the first carb being rebuilt improperly or the rebuilder not noticing anything amiss or defective with the castings, I guess I have some options - the first one being a conversation with him regarding at least a partial refund. I've been back to him twice already - the first time when the carb was not getting any fuel whatsoever, and the second visit when I drove the car to his shop under hazardous conditions because of a 40 mph limit and uphill sputtering, and 5 1/2 hours later he was still insisting it wasn't in the carb.
Thanks again to all who have offered suggestions, procedures, and encouragement!
P.S. I think I asked but I can't recall if I received an answer: On a '63 Riv, does the Carter AFB require a different intake manifold and linkage setup than the 4GC?
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Would I need to change the ignition coil as well? I have the 40K Pertronix coil installed.
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Hi all,
A weekend update, as they say:
Step I: I replaced the fuel pump with a Delphi one from Rock Auto, hopefully not crap. NAPA says the pump is NLA. Since they don't cost much I also ordered one from CARS Inc. which looks to be identical except for no casting of the Delphi name on the pump housing. Prior to installation I rotated the engine to line up the balancer notch at zero, with the rotor pointed toward Cyl. No. 1. The old fuel pump came out easy and the new one went in w/o any struggle. The Riv fired right up, ran on the choke for 30-45 sec or so, and then would stall.
Step 2: Changed the gas filter just to be sure, with the 'IN' or dimples on the inlet side (from the fuel). No difference. I'm definitely getting gas via the pump into the carb (a 4GC.)
Step 3: I filled my 5-gallon container with fresh fuel, purchased several feet of the best fuel hose (yes, it is expensive per foot!) and ran it from the container into the fuel pump inlet, bypassing any possible fuel tank issues such as a bad sock or other cloggage. I already changed the short hose at the tank and the hose by the right front coil spring. Even with the car's fuel tank connected I'm getting plenty of fuel into the carb visa the pump.
So I'm running out of ideas and am back to suspecting the float adjustment or another carb issue.
This may be a clue or not, but worth a mention: This all started a month or so ago after I had the 4GC rebuilt by a recommended carb shop here in San Diego (about the only one left) using a rebuild kit from the Carburetor Shop in Eldon, Missouri. Upon reinstallation it was getting no fuel at all, so rebuilder checked acccel pump and then removed the tiny springs that as I understand it are under the floats on a 4GC. He said the carb was "over engineered" in that area and he typically doesn't reuse them. Upon reinstallation the Riv fired right up and ran well - until encountering any inclines or speeds over 45 mph. The it starts bogging down or stalling, not ideal for San Diego freeways and canyon roads!
So any suggestions on where to look next are much appreciated.
Some questions:
- Does anyone know a good rebuilder (anywhere) to whom I could send the carb to for a thorough diagnosis? I'm done with taking it back to this shop.
- Does anyone have a running 4GC they'd like to part with? I'm leery of buying someone else's problem on eBay, etc.
- Am I better off with a Carter AFB or later Quadrajet, and does that mean another manifold or different linkages, etc.?
- What have others done as far as their carb set-up on a '63 Riv that may not be completely stock but makes the car functional and more reliable?
Many thanks for your time!!!
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Changing the fuel pump tomorrow. It's been a while since I've done one, so two questions: It came with two of the same pump-to-engine gaskets. Do I use both? And do they need gasket cement?
Thanks!
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Thanks, Bill. After some sleuthing I did find one via Amazon that was in stock. Awaiting a fuel pump delivery as well.
To be continued!
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From Rivnut:
I Googled 'ACDelco fuel tank 3/8" sock' and found this: ACDelco 5651711 GM Original Equipement Fuel Pump Strainer. About $12
I'm finding that the GM 5651711 fuel sock as well as the TS 1000 recommended further up in this thread at no longer available. Can anyone suggest an alternative?
Thanks!
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Many thanks Ed, I'll order the sock.
Hi TelRiv,
Per your suggestion I removed and inspected the short outlet hose at the leading edge of the gas tank. It didn't have any obvious cracks and held under air pressure, but I replaced it because it may have been there for 56 years, and that tank side clamp is tricky to get to. I was able to drop the front of the tank just enough to get the needed access. Ran out of time this weekend, but I have a fuel pump coming mid-week.
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Thanks TelRiv,
Do you have a part #? The Genuine GM parts website does not let me go earlier than 1984. Much appreciated!
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No, in fact even the 1964 sending unit and sock is for Skylarks not Rivs. I saw an earlier thread on this forum that had some info:
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Anyone know the difference between the fuel sending units (tank-mounted) for '63 and '64? CARS Inc. lists '64 only and they're unsure. Does anyone know if the sock is the same? I'm more interested in obtaining a new sock for a '63 tank, non-A/C if that matters. More diagnosis to come this weekend, the first inspection being the hose outlet at the tank as tel riv suggests.
Thanks!
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Thanks Tom. Is that a 3/8 as well back there?
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Thanks Bill and Winston. Winston - you recommend NAPA as well? Yes, float levels were already checked twice. I can also eliminate the fuel tank and lines altogether by running a 5-gallon can and hose straight into the pump.
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Here's the saga so far. I had my 4GC carb rebuilt by a known to be good and recommended shop in San Diego. Initial issues were flooding due to stuck or out of adjustment floats. After rebuild and installation, the Riv bogs down on any longer or steeper inclines, and bogs down at anything above 50 mph, so freeway driving is out of the question. No bog from standstill.
I took it back (installed on the car) to the shop. They checked:
- The float adjustment, all vacuum hoses,and inlets, accel pump function, and secondaries function.
- All rubber and metal fuel lines back to the fuel tank for kinks or crimps.
-To see if the tank sock was clogged by blowing compressed air into the fuel line from the inlet side of the fuel pump and listening/looking at the tank fill tube with gas cap off. All good,
- Scoped the ignition system (has a Pertronix Ignitor). All OK.
- The fuel pump, which was putting out about 6+ lbs. pressure, but IIRC that was at idle or low revs while in Park.
The chief mechanic is out of ideas but said the fuel pump could be failing under load. Other ideas welcome as to what else may cause fuel starvation on steeper inclines as well as limiting the speed to under 50. I may have to inspect the fuel tank more closely, but for now, can someone recommend where to get a decent quality fuel pump these days? The shop recommended NAPA but maybe my fellow ROA members have another recommendation?
Again, any other ideas of what to check for are welcome - maybe some of you have had a similar issue.
P.S. I did manage to to get my Riv there and back home under its own power, but it was a real challenge at times because of the canyon topography in this area!
65 brake booster source?
in Buick Riviera
Posted
Try this shop and forget Rock Auto rebuilds and all that cheap crap. They actually know what they're doing and will guide you through the process if you need any advice. They really came through for me.
http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/