1935Packard

Good point! I hadn't thought of that, but you're totally right.

Yup. A few years ago I tried to find pictures of all the still-existing '35 Packard 12 coupe-roadsters to see how they looked in different colors. Several big auctions reported that only five of the cars still exist, out of about 50 made. Just googling around, I found pictures on the web of at least 10 of them.

I think it goes pretty far beyond Ford "disliking many Jews." For those unfamiliar with Ford's virulent anti-semitism and conspiracy-mongering, here's a taste: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew . And as this article notes, "Adolf Hitler himself called Ford an inspiration and kept a photo of the automaker behind his desk. In a 1923 interview with the Chicago Tribune, Hitler said . . . . he wished he could send some of his “shock troops to America” to help Ford get elected president."

Ballpark maybe 20K, if it's all there and solid? FWIW, here are two relevant (public) data points I happen to remember on the value of this model of car, although obviously not in that condition. 1) This nicely restored example won a lot of awards at various concours, and it was for sale for a long time at a very very high asking price -- around $250,000, if I recall correctly. In Feb 2018, it went up for sale at "Bring a Trailer," of all places, and sold for $126,000. I think the market is down since then, so maybe guess, what, another 10% or 15% less today? I gather that roughly matches Ed's 40 cents on the restoration dollar guess, If you say 20K for the car and $250K-ish resto, https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-cadillac-370-a-coupe-v-12/ 2) Also relevant, here's a driver of the same car as a victoria coupe instead of the rumble seat coupe. Softer market with the more sedan-like body style, but at least a reference point. Sold last year for $63,250. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf18/hershey/lots/r0012-1931-cadillac-v-12-victoria-coupe-by-fisher/693044

That's right. https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-62140.html

I'm guessing it's not this, just to rule out something obvious.

So this is cool: I just googled "Walter Swoope" and "Packard," and up came this recent estate sale of Walter Swoope, where among the items up for sale is a 1940 Packard 120 convertible! And they even have pictures of the car on the estate sale website. See one of the images below. The family must have held on to the car all those years. Neat. My first thought is to reunite my receipts with the new owner if I can find him, as the new owner should have this. But given that I just recently purchased the receipts, maybe it was the new owner who was getting rid of the receipts instead.....

I purchased some old Packard repair receipts on ebay just for fun. Here's one below from 1951, in which Mr. Walter Swoope needed some work on his 1940 Packard 120 convertible. So he went to the local Packard service station and they repaired his right front fender, repaired his deck lid, gave him a new deck lid handle, and installed the handle . -- all for $16.50 total, consisting of $12.50 in labor and $4 in parts. Of course, inflation since 1951 means that to get to today's dollar, you have to multiply by 10 to get to a current equivalent. Still, $165 is a quite the cheap repair! On the other hand, that Packard was probably worth, somewhere in the ballpark of what, maybe $100 back then? That would be around $1000 today, if so.

Curious if anyone has seen the movie, now that it's out. It's getting some very good reviews. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ford_v_ferrari

Duesenberg SSJ, if price is no object. (I'm assuming that in this fantasy world we don't have to pay for insurance or repairs, either!)

Neat video from Hershey this year, with Ralph generously going along. Just an incredible car.

37Packman, there are people on this thread with a lot more experience than I have, but I agree that the data plate on a Packard of that period is something to check first, especially if it is fully filled out (as it was supposed to be, but often wasn't) and especially if it is from a well-known dealer (like PMCCO-NY), enabling you to check all the different fonts to see that they are factory correct and dealer correct. There are other factory markings to check on the cars I am familiar with, but the data plate is always a good start. I recently brought a car with what sure looks to me to be an original data plate to a shop for some cosmetic work, and the shop owner asked me if I wanted to replace that beaten up one with a nice new one. I couldn't have said "no way!" any faster. With that said, I don't think I would treat an original-looking data plate as definitive. First, they can be easily swapped, so you could have an original correct data plate on a different car. I was recently reading an auction description of a '34 Packard that the auction house claimed was "recent reunited" with its original data plate. Your first photo appears to be a correct original PMCCO data plate, but I don't think Packard used the then-new Phillips-head screws to attach them that year; it's likely still the right data plate for the car, but I assume someone removed the plate at some point during a restoration/work for painting or something. Second, I assume it's possible to fake an original-looking data plate with enough time and effort. It's not likely for a normal car, but I assume certainly could happen with a particularly special one. I'll defer to others who have seen/heard of that happening....

With apologies for reviving a thread from three years ago, it looks like the same car is being offered by RM Sotheby's again. It will be interesting to see how it goes 3+ years later. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0079-1935-packard-twelve-convertible-victoria/838016

I was going through some papers from my childhood recently, and I came across a large drawing I made in 6th or 7th grade picturing the kind of car I really loved at the time. I had to laugh when I saw the drawing, as it looked identical to the car I recently bought.

Great topic. The amount of sorting that a pre-war car requires has been one of the genuine surprises to me getting into this hobby. It's what makes me most concerned about the future of pre-war cars. If you have to expect to pay 10K to get a car running correctly even if you buy a great car, that is going to limit who will buy these cars and keep them on the road. Maybe that's inevitable. But he more the knowledge of what has to be done can be widely known, and the know-how shared, the more people can get their cars on the road like they're supposed to be. Other than that, I defer to everything that EdinMass will say. (Sorry, AJ!)

The roof is rather ungainly. But with the originality, known history, and its one-off status, I think it's super cool. Of course, they don't call me 1935Packard for nothing.

Thanks, Walt. I'd just add that Ron got the deal of the century on that car, it seems to me, when it was up for auction, I believe with no reserve. It is an awesome car: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj12/st--john-s/lots/r129-1935-packard-twelve-close-coupled-limousine-by-brewster/280618

1935 Packard Twelve, picture taken in 1951. I am very blessed to have this car in my garage. I've shared this photo before here, but seems to fit this thread, too.

Maybe, although all the cars on the street perpendicular to the parade road seem to be everyday cars of roughtl the same vintage as the '34 Packard -- two sedans and a delivery truck all in blackwalls. And I see a lot of ties, and hats seem to be light-colored fedoras and caps. If I had to guess, I would probably guess the picture is from the mid 1930s, too. But just a guess!

Thanks, all, for the replies. Makes sense that the higher-end you go, the more cars are in large collections. If you have a serious boatload of dough to spend on cars, you're probably going to buy a bunch of cars rather than just one, or two (or three).

I saw from an advertisement in Keith Martin's Sports Car Market that RM Sotheby's January auction in Phoenix is auctioning off seven V16 Cadillacs from the collection of John D. Groendyke . (See the descriptions and a picture below from the press release.) It brings up a question, I think: What proportion of high-end pre-war cars, like Cadillac V16s, are in large collections these days? When it comes to high-end cars like that, how many of the cars are owned by people with small collections versus those with large ones? You can get a little bit of a sense of that from looking through the CCCA member directory, but I assume that a lot of the large-collection owners don't fill those out so I don't know how accurate that info is. ****************************** 1) A 1930 Cadillac V-16 Sport Phaeton by Fleetwood. This genuine, exceptional example is restored in striking colors and is fully matching numbers complete with its original chassis, engine, axles, coachwork, and beyond. The Sport Phaeton was formerly owned for three decades by CCCA member Walden J. Schmitz, who purchased it from the estate of its original owner in the early 1960s. Schmitz restored the car and took it to CCCA meets through the early 1970s, after which he put it in his living room, until it was sold from his estate in 1998. The car has had a believed four private owners over the course of its nearly 90-year life (Est. $900,000 – $1,200,000). 2) a 1935 Cadillac V-16 Imperial Convertible Sedan by Fleetwood, formerly of the Richard Gold, Dr. Barbara Atwood, and Andrews Collections, wearing a well-maintained restoration by Steve Babinsky (Est. $600,000 – $750,000). 3) A 1933 Cadillac V-16 All-Weather Phaeton, restored with a correct Fleetwood body and formerly of the Fred Weber and Aaron Weiss collections (Est. $300,000 – $350,000); 4) A 1936 Cadillac V-16 Town Sedan by Fleetwood, the sole survivor in this style, sporting a well-preserved restoration by Fran Roxas and formerly of the noted William Ruger, Jr. Collection (Est. $250,000 – $300,000); 5)} 1939 Cadillac V-16 Convertible Coupe by Fleetwood, a very rare second-generation V-16, one of just seven built and formerly in the long-term ownership of Bob Hannay (Est. $225,000 – $275,000); 6) A 1931 Cadillac V-16 Seven-Passenger Imperial Sedan by Fleetwood, among the finest original, unrestored V-16s, beautifully preserved and with known history from new. The Imperial Sedan was formerly owned by noted restorer “Cadillac Jim” Pearson (Est. $100,000 – $150,000); and 7) A 1932 Cadillac V-16 Five-Passenger Sedan by Fleetwood, beautifully restored in the original color of Viceroy Maroon and an ideal CARavan and tour automobile (Est. $175,000 – $225,000). Among the cars:

Yes, sorry for the confusion; you can program it however you want. You control the charging via remote control on your phone, and the app lets you set it to turn on or or off whenever you want. At least that's how I understand it; I don't own one, unfortunately. Video on the app here:

When I looked into this, it turned out that this isn't how it works. The Tesla charger is designed to be programmed so it draws power late night when electricity is in least demand, and therefore is the cheapest. It's a really cool technology.

From a modern perspective, the odd part is that a 2-door coupe in that era was ordinarily just a two-seater, instead of a four-or-five seater with all 4-or-5 seats under a roof. I think a rumble seat makes sense if your baseline is a two-seater, as it gives you more seating in a pinch. But I agree it's a bit odd if your baseline is a four-or-five seater. I have to say, though, my experience is that people love rumble seats at car shows. I usually open up the rumble seat on my Packard, and I'll let kids sit in it. They love it.

I almost wrote a long response to this, but I decided to take out my '49 Cadillac for a nice drive instead.