1935Packard

In 2018, it no-saled at Bonhams with a $450k to $550k estimate, with at least partially different paint and a more confident claim that it was bodied by Van Leersum. And it looks like someone was either confident enough, or maybe more accurately, wantws others to be confident enough, that they put the coachbuilder's tag on it (in green). Hmm, wonder what the real story is here. https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/24811/lot/95/1946-delahaye-135m-coupechassis-no-800311/

I'm an HCCA member and I'm interested in buying an early brass era car, which would be my first pre-1930 car. I'm trying to avoid a car with a total loss oil system, however, as it sounds like the kind of mess that would make my wife and the neighbors a bit unhappy with me. I was wondering, what are some of the earlier cars that don't have total loss oil systems? Thanks in advance for the help.

I take it the catch with this '46 135M is that the bodymaker is unknown, which I assume means it may not have been originally bodied this way. As the catalog puts it, "It wears striking coupé coachwork, the builder of which is not factually known, but has been surmised by some to be of Dutch origin. Although there is nothing to categorically attribute it, perhaps one day further research will quantify this, in any respect it is an appealing aerodynamic coupe in keeping with styling of the immediate pre and post war era, with a number of key features such as side mouldings and finned boot lid." But what a great looking car. No reserve auction in France with an estimate of $175k-$275K, went for only $117,000. Man, at that price, that's a sweet deal. Altough maybe among Delahaye people, not knowing who bodied it is such a big deal that this is what happens. Don't know. https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/29216/lot/149/1946-delahaye-135-m-coupe-chassis-no-800311/

Least expensive Delahaye auction price, at least of a running car? Looks to be about $50,000. https://auctions.artcurial.com/auction-lot/1951-delahaye-135-m-coach-gascogne-par-dubos-no-r_37D4E76979

Around a year ago, there was a discussion on FB in one of the Packard forums about a '37 or '38 (can't remember which) Packard Twelve limo that was in even worse condition than this. The doors were held to the car with rope, no body part looked straight. Just a disaster from start to finish. I suggested to part it out, and it was amazing how many in the group thought that this was a horrible idea and that someone should buy it and restore it and how amazing would it be when it was done. Someone in the forum actually did buy the car and says he plans to restore it. I can't wait to hear the follow up about how that plan went. (I know, I know, serves me right for wasting time in FB forums; not exactly the most informed group of people.)

I don't think the "narwhal" Delahayes are attractive, either! I've assumed there is some sort of high-end world where it being a wild Figoni design makes it okay.

Note that we now have a dedicated Delahaye thread here:

Sold for $123K at RM last year, I assume because the front end is not attractive. I wonder if the new buyer bought it with the plan to flip it. It's nice with the exception of that front, but the front of car is a pretty big deal, especially on a Delahaye.

Definitely. I also tend to like cars for their style and history first, which means I sometimes end up loving cars that are particularly impractical and end up better studied than actually bought! And with California's taxes at about 10%, it's too expensive to experiment.

I have a rotating cast of about 10 cars that I think about and try to learn more about as possible "maybe some day" cars. My favorite two categories to ponder these days: 1) Some kind of 1930s high-end European car — a favorite being Delahayes, with Lagondas or Derby Bentleys sometimes in consideration. 2) Some kind of 1950s European sports car — a favorite being Feltham-era Aston-Martins, with XK120s and Porsche 356s sometimes in consideration. Fun to think about, at least.

No, but my 10 year old recently told me that when he's older he's going to have our Packard restored and he's going to bring it to Pebble Beach, which makes me think there may be some influencing of that generation.

That's a bummer. I have never quite made it over there, and looks like I never will.

With a Duesenberg J convertible coupe, I would people should be too blown away by the car to care one iota about what color it happens to be. And any 65-year old paint job is perfect.

BAT's practice, as I understand it, is to make condition statements purely descriptive. They won't say what is correct, or what is original. They just describe it, without reference to originality, figuring that it's up to buyers to assess originality if they care about originality. But I agree, it does lead to some very puzzling descriptions!

Agreed that investors, especially in that price range, should be seeking professional tax advice. (And I would just add that you have to report income below $600, too: The $600 threshold is just the new line for when certain third-party providers have to report the income to the IRS so that the IRS doesn't have to rely solely on individuals to report the income. But the legal obligation on the individual taxpayer is to report all income.)

I get the tax-loss harvesting strategy, with the caveat that I don't know if it applies in this setting. But whatever the answer to that, I'm skeptical of the above. “Paying taxes is not voluntary.” — Wilcox v. Commissioner, 848 F.2d 1007, 1008 (9th Cir.1988). And not paying a tax that you know is due is a federal crime, as I understand things. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/tax_crimes_handbook.pdf As for the claim that the IRS could be liable by telling you have to pay more than is due, can you say a little bit about how that works? What's the cause of action, and what are the damages?

Interesting! Yeah, I gather that crazy-low interest rates, and then government handouts during COVID, triggered a hot market that delayed the inevitable.

I've been wondering about the investor angle. How many really interesting cars were bought up by investors, who are now getting out or are not getting in because prices are coming down? Relatedly, how many interesting cars were bought up in mega-collections, tucked away in a warehouse somewhere by someone who has 100+ cars, most of which don't see the light of day— but that eventually will, when the owner passes? Can't wait forever to see what comes on the market, but sure am curious.

The '57 Chevy Bel Air. I don't have one, and I doubt I ever will, but as a design update over the '56, it's pretty much perfection.

A while back there was a thread on a survey California sent to some classic car owners about where and how their cars were stored, how often they drove them, etc., which some took as a sign that California might be looking to add more regulations on classic car ownership. (See thread below.) An article in the latest Hagerty Driver's Club magazine, a columnist has a different take. According to the former and current people at the CARB that he spoke to, the point of the survey was to build the factual case to drop emissions testing for older cars. Here's the article for those interested.

Packard I'd be happy to take that bet, especially for a large sum of money, as the story is instead very boring. The car was pulled from a barn in 1999, where it had been since the 1950s, to be restored; and the owner wanted it restored with a painted grill shell and plated shutters, so it was. My recollection is that you could pay to have an Eight done that way, and the Eight catalog has them a few different ways-- several of the pictures have them this way, including the phaeton below-- but that was not the default. https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/1934_StadardEightPrestigeBrochure.pdf

What's the rule of thumb, always double the shop estimate? That has usually held for me, including when I had my 12 rebuilt.

Stable prices are a good thing. Buyer and seller alike can come in and out without feeling like the hobby is a gamble. (And yeah, technically, a 2010 dollar is the equivalent to about $1.40 today. So prices would need to be up 40% to keep up with inflation. But that's no fun to think about, I realize! )

For those interested, I looked around and here are some other Delahaye cabriolets by Pennock that were sold at auction recently (incidentally, the car looks so much better in a single color-- I especially like the very dark second one): 1. https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/26811/lot/422/1948-delahaye-type-135m-three-position-drophead-coupe-chassis-no-800843/ 800843, sold in the UK in 2021 at Bonhams for $211,000 in the 2021 dollar to pound conversion rate. 2. 800532, sold in 2022 in France for about $230,000 using then-current U.S. to euro conversion rate (although that was in a lot of flux in 2022). https://www.aguttes.com/en/lot/120481/17497976-1946-delahaye-cabriolet-135-ms

The Pennock Delahaye on BAT bid up to $121K, or $127k with the 5% BAT buyer's premium. An interesting question is whether this is market, or just one of those cars that doesn't do well on BAT. Using the Chapron car that sold for $207K as a reference, you might expect this car to go for, guessng here, maybe $50k less, like $160k or so? But I don't know enough about the Delahaye market to say. In particular, it seems to me that it's a brand that is unusually focused on show cars; people bring them to concours, and relatively few drive them. So a Delahaye that needs a lot of work to be shown at a concours may be tough on the market. But I don't know, this is just my amateurish speculation.