Packard enthus.
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Posts posted by Packard enthus.
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On 10/23/2023 at 4:58 PM, JV Puleo said:
.......... you'd probably be safer with an unrestored car that has never been mucked with than with a large percentage of the restorations out there.
Well said ! Outstanding illustration of the change....when what WAS a hobby for people who, with their own hands, enjoyed the technical aspects of the machines they thought enough of to collect....to today.....it's just a business to so many current participants.
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How sad - well-meaning people who destroy engines (or give advice on how to bring one back to life) with perfectly good intentions. BEFORE attempting to turn the motor over even one revolution, it is ESSENTIAL that the oil pan be removed, to clean out the sludge that WILL be ingested by the oil pump, ruining the connecting rod and main bearings.
How do I know this? Attached photo suggests I have some familiarity with working on motors damaged by well-meaning others.
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3 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:
I guess I can see now where some of the confusion comes in.
Ask yourself, where does the most recent Antique Automobile Club of America logo show any customizations?
After a quick peak at the logo surely most of us have noticed none of the cars portrayed are even antiques in a technical sense ....
Exactly my point. The AACA logo,as you point out, does not show "antique" cars (or at least as some of us once thought the word meant). The AACA is changing. It simply reflects that our country's culture, language, all are changing, evolving to reflect where we are going as a society. The simple fact of economic life is that many people now involved in clubs that once had more precise definitions, are directly involved in the sales and service of old cars. Some of us are from a time when the general public saw nothing worthwhile in old cars; treated us with, if we were lucky, dis-interest (more likely contempt). When the values climbed, people who saw a chance to make a buck, jumped in. Been to an auto action recently? Seen what people are paying for used cars of the post-war years? Not logical to expect clubs will ignore the trend.
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On 2/17/2024 at 8:48 AM, 31A said:
I don't want to look like a jirk. Everyone has their own taste and opinions. I like pure stock. (Sorry). I don't consider vehicles with built frames, fuel injectors, solid state ignition and so on as ANTIQUE. The fully modified cars with the latest in technology are impressive but do not belong in a Antique club. Please correct my thinking.
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Your thinking (like mine...!) is woefully obsolete. In a previous and different USA, the words "antique" and "classic" had precise meanings when applied to autos. For example, the word "antique" was applied to cars with antique features, such as brakes on only the rear wheels (which were typically "external contracting", lighting from carbide generators, high pressure tires, etc. The word "classic" when applied to cars meant only the largest, most powerful, most elegant "super cars" of the 1920's up to when streamlining and mass-production of less expensive cars took over, just before the onset of the Pearl Harbor attack. My understanding (someone correct me if I am wrong) at one time the AACA decided the Model A Ford was too "modern" to be considered "antique"...given all the introduction of modern technology (FOUR wheel brakes) that were "internal expanding"...on board electric generation for lights and other accessories, etc.
But that was then. that was before used car dealers, body shops, after-market manufacturers, etc. discovered the terms could be used to sell stuff. To confirm how obsolete the thinking of the originator of this "thread" is, one can look at more recent thinking. The terms "old used" car...is gone. ALL used cars are now "classic". Turn to page 76 of the ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE (the official magazine of the AACA) found in the MAY-JUNE 2023 edition. You will find an excellent argument for appreciating "Emerging Antiques". A major "trade magazine called HEMMINGS has page after page of advertisements for various goods and services of interest to old car fans (ooops...shame on me...should have said "antique classic" fans...!). Try and find a page in that magazine where some part or service was NOT called "antique" or "classic". Bottom line....enjoy this new era....it is here to stay...our thinking is not!
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Thank you for posting a photo of the front of your late model GMC truck in front of the same place I had earlier photographed my Packard Twelve, and telling us I was there last month".
That is nice that you were able to park your late model GMC truck in that same place. May I inquire...how you believe your post contributes to the discussions in this "thread" ? Discuss, please.
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3 hours ago, 8E45E said:
Have you been to the autowreckers lately? Nearly every 25-30 year old car, SUV, or pickup in there still has unfaded shiny paint on it!! Craig
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May I inquire? How does your above post tell us what your position is, on the changes in the use of words such as "classic" and "antique"...?
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11 hours ago, dodge28 said:
I might be considered a jerk. My cutoff date of antique is 1964, The car up to then has some character
I respectfully suggest you are WAY "behind-the-times". Subscribe to the magazine "ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE" put out by the ANTIQUE AUTO CLUB OF AMERICA. Great info. in the articles as to where the used car hobby is going. (at least that is where many folks WANT it to go......)
For example, go to the MAY JUNE 2023 issue (Volume 87 Number 3). See the article entitled EMERGING ANTIQUES that begins on Pp. 76, There you will find the author stating "antiques from this modern era" are where we should give more consideration (pick up trucks, Ford Granada...things like that.
Just think, in another year my 2000 Toyota RAV 4 will be considered an "antique" by some folks. They would be VERY unhappy with me if I dared violate what these folks want to hear, should I call it "a used car"
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5 hours ago, 8E45E said:
Maybe you'll be fortunate enough to get 'stuck' behind me in your Packard on a single lane road with my Studebaker Diesel which is governed to a top speed of 50mph! Craig
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Let's get this out in front...LIFE IS UNFAIR! IT ISN'T MY FAULT SO DONT BLAME ME! Yeah...you may well feel a touch of envy if I am "fortunate enough" to get stuck behind you in your "ordinary man's" car.....as I blast by you at nearly twice your speed ( I don't feel comfortable, given my tires are now about 5 years old....taking my Packard Twelve much above 90).
No question about it - it is decidedly unfair that so few folks have a clue what the big "super cars" of the pre-war era could do; how superior they are to the "ordinary man's" cars of that time. By the mid 1930's Pierce Arrows had over-drive...a Marmon V-16 or Dusie...? C'mon, man - be a courteous driver & stay the hell out of our way!
Most, if not all, of the big "super-cars" of that era had power brakes - drums half again larger in diameter than the "ordinary man" cars. Cooling systems? Water bags were a "hot" item at gas stations in that era, but you sure as heck dont need one on a "super car".
How fast are the 'super cars".? Well...bone stock, the ones that did not have some kind of over-drive were crippled with absurdly low (numerically high) final drive ratios. So yes, I cheated in this respect - my otherwise "bone stock" Packard Twelve has a 3.23 final drive ratio. How fast COULD it go? How fast COULD a Pierce Arrow V-12 go...? What we do know is how fast they can stop. (again, proper maintainence is the key....with the correct brake lining)..those things can do a "feathered" wheels-locked stop at ANY speed.
So just how fast is fast? We know that for the introduction of the so-called "Twin Six" in late 1931, Packard took a otherwise bone-stock new one out on their test track, and proved "PACKARD BEATS A GOLF BALL". The time clocked the golf ball at 122...the Twelve (o.k...for that year only, was called the "Twin Six")....at 124. (yeah...Packard cheated...that thing was "high geared" with a left-over differential from their earlier "Speedster" series...!
So we can agree that life isn't fair - take today...for example...on a hot day in modern traffic, is that guy in the $100,000. car of today, any more comfortable with his air conditioner on, than my wife and I in our Toyota RAV4?
Packard introduced "factory air" in late '39 for 1940 production. Who, who actually knows what they are talking about...would doubt that a '40 Packard equipped with their then-new "356" & overdrive would have any problem keeping up with modern traffic?
The key is proper maintainence. As others have pointed out, the cost and skill to bring back into service one of those pre-war era "super cars" is a whole different problem than just overhauling an "ordinary man" car like a "junior" series Packard...or Ford...or Buick...or whatever. How many modern shops would have a CLUE...for example..of how to remove and service the "lifters" out of a Packard Twelve....!
Bottom line....life- isn't fair...there is always someone who has something vastly superior to what you are familiar with. Accept it....and dont make a point out of showing either your envy...or your ignorance...or both!
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On 2/7/2024 at 5:42 AM, 8E45E said:
That's a huge reason we see 'restomods'; to fix most of the shortcomings of the original product. Not that I always agree with it, but it can make an outdated, substandard vehicle perform adequately in today's traffic.
Craig
So you think a Packard Twelve is a "substandard vehicle"....suggesting it cant perform adequately in today's traffic...eh? My recommendation for people who are thinking of letting their envy get the best of their sense of manners......when you are clueless, dont advertise it!
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This fellow from Washogal, Wash.....just posted "I use to be long for year". Apparently in response to a three year old post about a guy who claims he heard Turnquist speak, and "Packard Twelves were a dime a dozen".
Hmmm.....let's see.. oh well..it's the Internet....
In my own case, I am as long as I have ever been since puberty, but that's just me.
As for Turnquist saying he was driving Packard Twelves around in a junk-yard.....well....I knew Bob and Sonny personally - of all the stories I heard him tell, either to me directly, or when I was with him and others...never heard him tell that one.
For those who do not know, the Turnquists lived in Morristown, New Jersy. The town got is name for the first colonial governor of that state - William Morris. The Turnquists lived in the centuries-old home orig. built for the governor. My recollection (been many years since I've stayed with them) the home was in a pretty nice section - can't recall any jankyards in the area.
Packard Twelves were a "dime a dozen'? Oh well.. again....its the Internet. Values of big old luxury cars were way down...? Well....depends on your perspective.
In 1957, I paid twenty five bucks for my Packard Twelve...which was about right since it needed a battery, & the tires were well worn. Twenty five bucks was no dime.....in fact...if you convert it to today's purchasing power I paid around $500. for that car. That's a lot of money for a high school kid...took some doing, mowing lawns over several summers...to get that twenty five bucks together.
What happened to my own Packard Twelve? That story is told elsewhere. Sufficient to note it continues to do what its original designers intended....that's it with my wife and i inside, storming thru a high mountain pass in the Colorado Rockies during a CCCA CARavan a year or so ago.....
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18 hours ago, 32buick67 said:
Expensive, yes, but we often get what we pay for...
I installed these and haven't been disappointed, we drive at night, and are amazed at the low and high beam performance!
I will promote these all day long for those driving dawn to dusk and beyond...
Wow...sounds great - only problem for post 1939 cars is the socket adapter...is there such a thing...? I would need something to connect the old'style socket base to the 1940 & later "sealed beam" type three prong connector.
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HEADLIGHT BULBS
I got all excited about the discussion in here about LED headlight bulbs. I presently have 50W quartz halogens using modeern reflectors I installed behind my "stock" lenses, so my headlights look "period correct".
The order confirms they understood my old car (see below) is 6 volts. They came today from a 'USKY3 WHAREHOUSE in Hebron, Kentucky. Nice fancy box labeled "LED auto lamps". No indication who the mfg. is, no indication what voltage.
On installing them in my car...... NOTHING! Turns out they only work on modern NEGATIVE ground systems. When I reversed the polarity, they lit up - but I m frankly not impressed with them. They are nowhere near as bright as my existing quartz hologens. when I reversed the polarity. I did NOT try to put 12 volts on them for fear of burning them up.
For those of you who also have 6 volt cars - yes, I would recommend quartz halogens, avail. from a number of sources. Just bear in mind you will have to re-wire your headlight "buckets" to modern "bayonet" style connectors. Also, today's quartz-halogens pull a LOT more amps than the old incandescents/sealed beams. I am lucky, Packard Twelves have the biggest 6 volt generators of any pre-war car I am aware of, plus a "Group 4" sized battery. Your problem? Quartz halogens may well have a greater electrical demand that pre-war "factory" electrical systems in most cars can handle.
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TWELVE PARTS?
As a long-confirmed Packard Twelve fanatic, it pains me to see ads like this - means that somewhere, some time ago, a magnificent automobile "bit the dust". Bet there is a interesting story as to how this fellow came by these parts. Go for it!
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We are both correct. We both win. I pointed out what was standard production. You pointed out the obvious...for those who wanted to pretend they bought the more expensive, much more powerful "top-of-the-line" Packards, of course they would be accommodated to make the sale.
Either at the factory, or by the distributor, or even the delivering dealer! While the color book for that year showed what Packard choices Packard offered in "production", of course they would paint the thing (for a price)....either at the factory or later on in the delivery chain, to make a sale.
For some reason, Packards delivered to India often came new with chromed hood sheet metal, as well as BOTH the grill shells and shuttersl! (I suspect the distributor handled that, not the factory...but I don't know for sure..!)
As a side-note, and as an example of my being wrong, I lost a bet about chromed headlight shells on '38-39 Twelves. I never saw or even heard of one till relatively recently. Turns out there were a couple - most definitely "original" unmolested versions.
And then...the more obvious cases of disregarding historical accuracy...."owner license",,,? My own '38 Twelve's paint job. 1935 -39 production cars were solid colors. If there ever was one of that era coming at the door at 1580 E. Grand Ave. "two toned", I am not aware of it. But I like two-toning...and, after all...it is my %$#@((# car!
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HUNDRED BUCKS OR LESS?
This presents a "generation gap" issue. Why? A little explanation to give you younger folks a better understanding of what has been avail. over the years for a hundred bucks
Because...well....a hundred bucks is a hundred bucks...? Nope....think REAL VALUE/PURCHASING POWER. What the "powers-that-be" LIKE to say to disguise what they've done to us....they call "inflation". Not true. What they've done to our purchasing power... our American dollar has been DEFLATED in its value....
To give you a example SOME of you can relate to, when I bought my '34 Packard Super Eight (a good running car I went to my first year of high school in) I did pay a hundred bucks for it. How much did I REALLY pay...in REAL MONEY? Well...in that year...a U.S. Post stamp was three cents. At three cents for ordinary mail, there was sufficient purchasing power in that three cents the U.S. Post Office was doing fine. Now, in our bright new year of 2024, they are LOSING money at over fifty cents a stamp.
My best guess is the twenty five bucks I paid the following year, for my '38 Packard Twelve, was the equiv. in today's money/purchasing power, of around five hundred bucks. Pretty steep (did I over-pay..?)
for a then 18 year old car with a bad battery, bad tires, and needing an engine overhaul.
In 1950 I went with my dad to take delivery of his new Buick Super. If memory serves, that was about a grand. How much in that DEFLATED currency is a mid-price range Buick today?
So - let's keep some perspective....and be prepared...at the current rate, it won't be long with what happened in Germany as the 1920's drew to a close....(you needed a wheelbarrow full of Reichsmarks to buy a loaf of bread....!)
Not to worry....I kept that Twelve...pulled the engine out - (the rod bearings were fine)....did the valves, new rings....honed the bores.....so far, so good (the picture below is it last summer with my wife and I, storming thru a high mountain pass in the Colorado Rockies....during a CCCA tour....!
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3 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:
wish you folks who post photos, would tell us more about your car! For example, bet there is an interesting story about this '34 Packard "Eight". For example, how did it wind up with the PLATED shutters and PAINTED grill shell that, when these cars were in production, was reserved only and exclusively for the TWELVES (the 'Eights" and "Super Eights" had a PLATED shell and PAINTED shutters...!)
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On 12/17/2023 at 1:50 AM, 1935Packard said:
Took out the ‘34 today, very nice day here in California.
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On 12/29/2023 at 5:10 AM, West Peterson said:
............They were restored to look pretty, but without the intention of being driven.......
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Yes - how true - Mr. Peterson points out the dramatic change down thru the years of what WAS a hobby by guys like me who just liked the machinery for what it was. The pre-war cars in the early years of the CCCA were worth little or nothing - for those who remember the old "I Love Lucy" series, more than one show's story-line illustrated how "dingy" and irresponsible Lucy was for getting involved in an old car (in one show,...it was a early Cad V-16...!).
Those of us demented enough to see value in "engineering exaggerations...magnificantly over-done"...(o.k...so I stole that line from the late Robert J Gottlieb...!) liked them for what they were as automobiles - you can bet that the cars showing up in those days at Buck Hill Falls, or out here at Santa Barbara...ran...ran well...drove well.
As a famous restorer pointed out to me some years later, spending the client's additional money to make one of these modern day "lawn queens" into a nice handling useable auto (what they really were when new) would be borderline theft. Today's restorers know the objective is to get the car running well enough to drag its carcass from a trailer, to its position as an exhibit. (three cheers to Pebble for suggesting folks actually drive the things....!
Not to worry....if you want a nice "driver" plenty of low-mileage properly maintained "emerging antiques" around - if you don't believe me, pick up a copy of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE for May/June 2023 and turn to an article starting on Page 76. (oh...that photo...from last summer...my '38 Twelve storming out of a high mountain pass in the Colorado Rockies during a CCCA Caravan. Mine made it...some didn't. Who wants to guess why?
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CLASSIC CARS?
C'mon, guys...some of you THAT far "behind the times"...? ALL used vehicles are now "classics". In fact, check the super-market shelves...you will see fewer and fewer products that are NOT called "classics". It is the way things are - no point in arguing about it or generating bad feelings.
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On 12/18/2023 at 2:39 PM, 1935Packard said:
It all depends on what you like and what you value, I think.
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couldn't agree more. As much as I enjoy automotive tech. history, simple fact of life - each era brings us technology that is helpful. My "daily driver"....well....WHEN? When I started driving, I was happy with my '34 Packard Super Eight. Trouble was, it was factory equipped with "poured babbit" connecting rod bearings. (bet there's folks in here who can figure out what happened when driven by a wild high school kid....!) So - keeping up with technology as it evolved, got a '38 Packard V-12, with its vastly superior, more advanced engine design. "Time-marches-on"..... its "stock" gearing was too low for the then-new Hollywood Freeway, so it went into storage, while I enjoyed my over-drive-equipped later Packards. Then came a series of air-conditioned Cadillacs. By the early 1970's....tired of the Caddy products. My latest "daily driver"...? Hard to beat our new Toyota RAV 4. (unless, of course, the weather isn't too hot here in Arizona...so...out comes the '38 Packard V-12.....!
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11 minutes ago, Mr. Reed said:
On the floor is there a dimmer switch grommet or is it just the switch bolted to the floor thru the carpet? Thanks. Can't seem to find one for the 50. Also does anyone have the flap oil board that goes in the trunk against the rear seats? grey textured in color.
I am confused by your post. All series Bucks of that era had a "toe dimmer switch". The 50 series, if memory serves, was the designation for the least expensive series, which was produced with a rubber floor mat. The "grommet" for the dimmer switch was part of the moulded floor mat.
Yes, the more expensive series had carpeting...and the carpet was fitted with a rubber grommet for the toe/dimmer switch. I believe Steele has them. No law that I am aware of says you can't put rugs into your 50 series. I wont tell...!
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HISTORICALLY CORRECT? (THE PACKARDS DEPICTED HERE)
Does it matter, given what the so called "hobby" has become? Not that anyone cares these days....but 1933-34 Packard production had, as some on here have noted, significant differences. True - many sheet-metal parts are interchangeable. But as I noted above, you got what you paid for - Packard didn't get, earn and keep its stellar reputation by cheating its customers. You paid more for a Super Eight because you got more car...MUCH more owner satisfaction in terms of performance. And anyone who is familiar with how a Twelve drives, know why those who could...paid much more money for that.
But human nature being what it is...some folks like to try and fool folks....pretend they have something they dont. So we see Packard Super Eights with Packard Twelve bumpers. We see Packard Eights (otherwise known as "Standard" Eights....fitted with Super Eight head-lamp lenses. Only the "top-of-the-line" (the Twelves) of that year, had a painted radiator shell (to draw the eye out making the hood look longer) and chromed radiator shutter-blades. Could an Eight or Super Eight been ordered from the factory that way (in production...they had chrome plated radiator shells and painted shutters.)? Would a dealer stood on his head and painted the damn thing purple to make a sale...? Of course.
Is it good manners...or just looking for a fight.....to recite the REAL purpose of the AACA.....(further the interest in the preservation of antique autos....) (presumably that means an interest in historical accuracy...!).
All that being said...it isn't quite warm enough today for me to turn on the "factory air" in my "antique" 1941 Cadillac 60 S.......but that's a story for another day....!
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7 hours ago, Restorer32 said:
The price is very negotiable. The $49k was what the owner thought it was worth. I tried to get him to be more realistic. All offers considered. Car is nearly 100 % complete.
"nearly 100% complete"....? Really now. Tell me....what's that big empty space in the center of the instrument panel for...? Doe what SHOULD be there come with the car....is that why it is "nearly 100& complete"....? My recollection is you have a quite competent restoration shop. Must be a good reason why your people aren't jumping at the chance to get this "nearly 100 complete" all fixed up......
Side note - while ALL pre 1935 production year Packards were built in its "Senior Division" factory, this was, when new, the loest powered, least expensive of Packard's line. Certainly a good buy for the money (elsewhere on the Internet you can find a video of a similar car (also a Packard "Standard Eight" blowing off a Cad V-16 in a drag race. Fact remains Packard had a well-deserved reputation for delivering an honest product for the dollar. Packard in that year offered products costing two...three...four times as much as what this was when new. Again...let's be clear...Packard offered a good product for the money, for any price class it chose to compete in. But who is kidding who......from a owner-satisfaction standpoint, no question that more money buys you more Packard - the much heavier, more powerful Super Eights and Twelves of that year were worth the extra money. The money and effort spent to try and bring that gutted and partially stripped derelict back into service as a useable auto could, in my opinion, be much better spent on a "bigger" Packard of that year. As the "old gang" like me fade away...fewer and fewer people know this stuff - so the values are dropping. Why not take advantage of the phenomena! No stopping the "march-of-time". And what it does to people's interests. Example...my own attitude in '56 when I bought my eighteen year old Packard Twelve for twenty five bucks. I had NO interest then....in...say...doing a "ring and valve" job on a seventy year old car......who wants to take a wild guess why?
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On 11/9/2023 at 4:13 PM, Den41Buick said:
i sold the one with the lock. I purchased a 1937 Super Eight and these came as extras.
I am confused. A '37 "Senior" had the earlier dash & glove compartment door - these would have been no use for the earlier cars. I bet there is a sad story behind what you have - obviously badly weathered. So many of the big "super luxury" cars of the pre-war era treated like junk after they were no longer serviceable. Nothing new there ! Harto explain to today's old vehicle enthusiast, that those few of us who saw value in the largest, most powerful, most elegant cars of that era were thought of as nuts!
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Packard Station Wagon 1948-1950
in Packard
Posted
I am puzzled. If I read that chart correctly, it suggests the 356 engine was avail. for 1950 production. I do not recall that. My recollection is the 356 was discontinued for 1950 production, meaning the largest displacement motor was the 327 for that and up to end of 1953 production.