Packard enthus.
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Posts posted by Packard enthus.
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On 6/26/2020 at 7:43 PM, Guest said:
Remember to put the hubs back on DRY. Absolutely nothing on the taper.
VERY bad idea. Virtually guarantees some oxidation/corrosion will set in. I like gun oil. Tighten to mfg's specs. Over the life of my owning my collector car (a '38 Packard V-12) I've had occasion to "pull" the rear drums several times. First time (in 1956) was pretty rough...from that point after, up to a month ago....no problem using a standard "puller".
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Just curious to see how many people are left who know what it was really like to drive cross-country on the real U.S. Highway 66, and why under the laws established by the then Bureau Of Public Roads, it could NOT be called a "route"....?
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2 hours ago, Old buicks 2 said:
Will have a lot of Packard ignition parts for sale at Hershey. C4N 30-32 Tom
May I suggest a little clarification? For those who do not know about pre-war Packards....there were, for all practical purposes, two different Packard manufacturers - seperate factories, none - again NONE of the parts from the "Senior Division" production would fit the smaller, lighter, less-expensive products from their "Junior" Division. As for the Senior Division products, there were Packard Standard Eights, Packard Super Eights, and Packard Twelves (each equal or superior to anything in their price class, but again - outside of exterior body sheet metal, different frames, chassis, suspensions, running gear, and, of course, engines - be assured a Packard Twelve ignition system has NO parts that will fit ANY other Packard product of the same era.
And don't forget - if you want to sell something - whether it be a used car or truck...or even something on a grocery store shelf....it is now mandatory to call it "classic"...!
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SELLING USED CARS & TRUCKS?
Few people these days are so "behind the times". But there are some, as is the case with this 0P. Unless you want to be written off as an elderly crack-pot, DONT FORGET WHERE WE ARE NOW AS A CULTURE!
Get real! The term "used car or truck" or "old car or truck" is no longer permissible. ALL vehicles MUST be called an "antique" or a "classic". Better yet...call it an "antique classic".
Actually, how many items can you find these days on grocery store shelves that are NOT called "classic"....?
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I wonder if this OP knows that the Packard Motor Car Company made more than one car with a divider window. If he would do a little research, he would find they did make more than one (the one he is considering)......in fact...they made more than a couple...of different years...body styles...and how the divider window was set up.
Just so other readers who also may not know that the Packard Motor Car Company made more than one car with a divider window, here, as an example of the point I am trying to make.... is a photo of the interior of my '38 Twelve. Note the divider window can be completely retracted, and thus is not an issue for tall guys like me....!
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On 7/18/2024 at 5:36 AM, TAKerry said:
Now the question is.. What are those two cars?
Those are called "classic" cars.......you didn't know...? All used cars are now called "classic" cars these days...
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pre-war Packards overheating?
I see all kinds of "monkey milk" solutions, some of which come close, but do not fully understand & deal with the problem. It is called "TIME MARCHES ON"!
When delivered to their original owners as new cars, Packards were under factory orders to behave themselves......they got their reputation by being over-engineered. They did not overheat. Period.
Of course, like most "manufactuers" Packard made most...but certainly not all of what rolled out their factory door.
Radiators are a good example. Packard, like many mfgs. , bought theirs from Harrison. Those radiators were simply "specd." for their respective applications. Packards were so over-cooled...THEY COULD NOT OVERHEAT.
But then comes the enemy...TIME. Dosn't matter how many times you cut the top and bottom tanks off, and "rod" the hell out of an old radiator - chemical deposits and changes significantly reduces a radiator's job as a heat exchanger. The only real solution (assuming all else in the cooling system is properly maintained) is a new core. They aren't cheap.
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MODIFICATIONS BEYOND 'STOCK' CHANGE VALUE?
Wouldn't that depend on the vehicle and era?
For example, who would want to "modify" a pre-war Cadillac V-16, Duesenburg, Packard, Lincoln, or Pierce-Arrow? They were and still are valued for (assuming properly maintained) their fine quality and superb performance. I believe that is probably still true for, oh, say a "mint" '55 Cadillac Fleetwood.
Now let's compare that "mint" '55 Cadillac Fleetwood with a "mint" '55 Chevrolet pick-up. The difference in performance, passenger comfort, overall quality. What comparisons would be relevant to drive them on today's roads?
Those who know what that Cadillac is like to drive, know they often came with "factory air". They could cruise literally loafing at 80 mph, in near silence. I rather doubt if anyone has experience driving a factory-stock '55 Chevrolet pick-up at 80 mph...! Or, for that matter, just try and keep up with modern inter-city traffic on today's "Interstates".....!
Dont we all enjoy creature comforts? Dont we all enjoy being out in public with nice old vehicles reflecting what we identify with? Who can argue that for pleasant modern driving, wouldn't it make more sense to "gut" that old Chevrolet, install whatever modern components meet our needs?
It should not surprise anyone that a properly done modified vehicle that meets a customer's needs, would command a higher price than "stock" vehicles in the class of old Chevrolet pick-ups.
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I disagree. The OP brought to the attention of this "thread" his interest in Packards. I think it is within the scope of AACA to want participants to help others with relevant information.
Many old car fans have heard the name of PACKARD. Isn't it interesting that this long gone name is still associated with high standards.
Unfortunately, many old car fans are not aware that as the middle 1930's evolved, the name "Packard" was used on two entirely different cars. (for all practical purposes, they were different makes of cars, made in separate factories out of unrelated parts!
I believe it is helpful and relevant to try and explain the differences, so that people interested in acquiring one should not, however innocently, get lured into something that is not what they contemplated.
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something fishy here. Or this fellow has some cars that are not serviced and maintained properly. A Packard 110 and a Packard Twelve are great cars? In what way are they great? Well, both (again, if both are properly maintained) give a good driving experience for what they were.
Having owned both over the years, i know how much greater one is over the other. Try denying that, and you expose your misfortune . Lack of technical competence - poor maintenance and/or the inability to find competent technical support?
Sorry - I am the wrong guy to try and convince Packard cheated its customers of its "Senior Division" products.
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3 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:
To say that an "ordinary man" Packard was as nice to own as a "Senior Division" product...was to claim Packard cheated its customers by charging so much more for the big ones.
I've seen you make this argument over the years, but I've never understood it. If a restaurant wants to offer a chicken entree for $15, and a lobster dinner for $50, we don't normally think that there's anything wrong with someone who says they really love the chicken there. We don't think the restaurant is cheating its customers by charging more for the lobster than the chicken, either. It's a business offering multiple products; if you like one, or both, good for you. (Fwiw, I have two senior Packards, including a 12, and I've previously had a junior Packard, a 110, too. All great cars!)
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you are correct as to my year of birth..i was born in 1940.
My mistake in failing to explain what era of "being there" i was referring to. I meant to explain I was a car buff and wound up being a member of the CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA when I came of driving age in 1956. So my admittedly obsolete and presently irrelevant discussion of the word "classic" dates from that era.
Afford a Packard Twelve? Anyone could afford one in those days. But our culture was different in those post-war days...."modern" was what folks wanted. My parents could afford to buy me a new (1956) Chevrolet. When I came home with my Twelve my parents discussed sending me to a psych. for eval.....you car buffs of today cannot imagine how much the big super-luxury cars of the pre-war era were hated ..symbols of a darker era to be rejected.
I have learned, and I suggest you join me in recognizing culture changes with the needs of the participants. Many folks today reject the traditional purpose of the AACA - which can run counter to those in the used car business. Can you blame folks who need to put food on the table, for their demand that car clubs accept an ever wider group of used cars?
An outstanding example how far some folks want to take the AACA can be found in Steven Ross's article APPRECIATION FOR EMERGING ANTIQUES (see 'ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE May/June of last year). So why shouldn't a used 1994 dump truck be valued as an antique and accepted by the AACA as such?
I had to scrape and save, mow a lot of lawns, to afford my Packard Twelve. Twenty five bucks for a old car that needed engine work, tires, and a battery was outrageous. (given the fact by today's purchasing power we are talking of around $750.).
But let's keep our eyes on the ball - my initial post in this thread was simply to provide guidance on proposed purchases of pre-war Packards. Can you folks help me understand how that post was not relevant to the purpose of this club?
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6 hours ago, TAKerry said:
My math says you were born in 1940, so I guess you were NOT there! Its a shame all of us cannot afford a 12cylinder Packard.
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Help me better understand your knowledge of cars of the late pre-war era. For example...what can you tell me about the quality of the parts, the engineering, the exterior and/or interior design...the performance differences in performance between a Ford, Chevrolet, and a "Junior Series" Packard of that era.
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A "CLASSIC" ? PACKARDS FROM THEIR 'JUNIOR' SERIES?
Let's be honest - these days EVERYTHING is a "classic". I just got back from the grocery store where it is getting harder and harder to find something on the shelves that is not labled "classic". Everything from shoe-laces to potato chips. No point in "crying over spilt milk"....change is part of history.
There is no denying that ANY American car from that era (IF PROPERLY MAINTAINED) is a nice driver & reliable. Incredible advances in technology made the difference between the "ordinary man" cars and the "super-luxury" cars less and less dramatic as the years unfolded.
Yes, we "who were there" in the early years of the CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA know why we chose the then rarely seen the word "classic". Even the dictionaries of today reflect the change. In those days, as applied to pre-war cars, "something unique, representing the highest standard of excellence". Only the largest, most powerful, most elegant....AND representing the Greek and Roman theory of design in that "form follows function"....a huge long hood separate and distinct from fenders, headlight bulbs etc. Would not have occured to us in those days to call ANY "ordinary man" car of ANY era a "classic".
When considering purchase of a pre-war Packard, remember, starting with 1935 production, there were actually two separate Packard companies. Of course the "Junior Division" cars were at least as good as other makes in their respective price class. Of course the "120's" were "legally" Packards.
But they were not the traditional "Senior Division" cars Packard had developed its well-deserved reputation on. NOTHING NOT SO MUCH AS A LEVER...on those "Junior Division" products will fit the much larger, heavier, more powerful "Senior Division" cars. Well...a couple of exceptions. Door handles and interior lighting fixtures (both purchased from outside vendors!).
Does a Packard "120" drive nicely? Of course! (So do Buicks, Fords, Chevrolets of that era...!). Do they perform as well as a Senior Division Packard (built in a separate factory with separate staff sourced from different parts)? C'mon folks...Packard did not cheat the buyers who paid double or triple the amount for their "Senior Division" cars. Ever heard the expression "you get what you pay for"...?
To say that an "ordinary man" Packard was as nice to own as a "Senior Division" product...was to claim Packard cheated its customers by charging so much more for the big ones.
Baloney! I was actually born in the back seat of a Packard "120". Spent much of my early years in them. Had to wait till I was 16 (in 1956) to get my own "Senior Division" Packard.
So - when you are contemplating buying a car, think hard about what will satisfy you. If you are & have the Ford, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet or Buick level tastes....YES....a Packard "120" is at least equal if not superior (in some but not all ways) to other "ordinary man" products of that era. Get a good one and you will be happy with it.
But please...don't be fooled....just because an old car's hubcaps say "Packard"......be aware there were essentially two different companies making cars of that name. Packard really did produce some magnificent products, well worth the money in each of the price classes it participated in.
Personal note - some of us mark the summer of 1939 as the end of "real" Packard production. That was when the entire "Senior Division" plant and its tooling was gutted and disposed of, so that Packard from that point on could concentrate onf "Junior Division level products. A word of caution, folks.....dont try and tell someone "who was there"...i.e...owned so many of them, that those later cars, labeled as Packards...some of which were fitted with the higher quality left-over upholstery & rugs from the old "Senior Division" stocks...are "real" Packards....!
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1 hour ago, Packard enthus. said:
see above
1 hour ago, Grimy said:Have you been away, Peter?........... I know quoting can be confusing, but you should try to put your new material outside the quote box.
My cars in my signature all remain 6V and will during my lifetime. ......I've been using Optima batteries exclusively for 20 years, and a pair in parallel in the 8-cyl cars (but not even in the 525 cid 1918 6), primarily for the reserve capacity for driving at night, but also because I don't like pulling seats or carpets and floorboards to check water and clean corrosion.
I'll bet that any of my downdraft-carb cars will start as quickly as your Packard......... A 1937 Packard 12 resides in my 2-car garage in exchange for my tall 1918 residing in my friend's high-door garage 1.5 miles away. He has another 1937 12 as well, largely self-restored, 2nd at Pebble a few years ago. I've driven one of his. The Packard advantage, beginning in 1937, was independent front suspension which I greatly admire, but Pierce beat Packard to the punch with its factory overdrive (4.58 --> 3.22) in 1936. I auditioned retirement some years ago by driving the 1936 Pierce from the SF Bay Area to Cleveland, solo, in 3 days' driving time.
I will not be able to make San Marino
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Enjoyed your post - we think alike. Sorry you cant make the big SAN MARINO show -look foward to meeting you.
Of course, as you note, any 6 volt vehicle, properly maintained...will start as fast or faster than my Packard Twelve. You apparently believe, as I do, in properly maintaining your vehicles.
And you apparently share my belief - well-stated by Editor West Peterson (May/June 2023) in ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE about "up-grades".
As noted earlier, I think some of the disappointment expressed in here is due to the dissatisfaction of some in here what the AACA is all about. As West notes, of course this particular Club recognizes some "up-grades" are relevant to this particular Club's long-stated objective.
Sadly, so many modern "collectors" car nothing for what their vehicles were actually like when in service....I suspect we share our prejudices about the "trophy" types - all they care about is if the car can drag its weary carcass across the grass for a "trophy hunt". What the car was like as a motor vehicle in service during its era, is of no interest or relevance to the "trophy" crowd.
I have heard good things about the Optima. Coincidentally, after five years of service, the Group Four battery in my Twelve died. Ever weighed one of those things? In years past I was able to change batteries......but....well......no way was I to risk my "seasoned" back....took it out with my "cherry picker".
Couldn't find a Group 4 or 3 last night...put in a cheapo Group 2. Can't tell any loss in cranking speed. Why the orig. spec. was for a Group Four (obviously VASTLY more powerful cranking potential). Simple - Packard recognized that many of its products would spend most, if not all of their lives in city traffic, where the battery would rarely get a full charge given the generators of the pre-war era. So - no question - a half or three-quarter dead Group Four will start a car as well as a properly maintained Group Two. But again, since I maintain my car, the Group Two spins it fast, and its headlights are bright. Yeah...i know....that Group Two is not going to spin it fast very long (what's your guess....about thirty seconds....!?)
Please please STOP making me jealous about your Pierce and its overdrive. Pierce recognized that by the mid 1930's, the new highway system let people did do long distance fast driving.
To be honest, Packard's engineering thinking was already obsolete when imy car rolled out the factory. The lack of provision for long distance high speed driving makes that painfully obvious. Yeah...I know...i saw he 1934 Twelve ad that "you could cover 400 miles per day". In '34 "pre-insert" rod bearing motors....sure....!
Yes. U.S. Highway 66 (which some folks who "werent there" mistakenly call "Route" 66) wasn't even paved in some places by the time my car was new). How fast would one have had to drive that '34 Twelve featured in Packard's ad, to go 400 miles in one day on the roads of that era....given the parts that werent yet even paved...!
Just for fun, I added a photo of my long-gone '34 Packard (taken at a CCCA meet in mid 1956). I dumped it a couple of weeks afterwards....wanted something MUCH faster and with more modern electrics....hence my '38 Twelve...!
For you and all lucky enough to own a big-engined pre-war car. Protect those rod-bearings & crank-shaft! How? DROP THE OIL PAN at least once every couple of years for a solvent-cleaning.
Even with full-flow oil filters (yes, Packard has them then) you will be horrified at how much crap has drifted down to the lowest point....which, sadly, is where the oil pump's pick-up point is. My rod & mains still meet factory specs....could that be because my Twelve has, for the last 60+ years, only "drinking clean oil"...?
Oh - you are also correct that I've been away from my computer for a couple of weeks. No point wasting car buff time in here discussing why, other to note old cars arent my only "disease".....I was at AIRVENTURE in Oshkosh, Wisc. !
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On 7/15/2024 at 5:35 PM, Grimy said:
@Packard enthus. please lighten up on your daily airing of your superiority complex. ..........P.S. Your Cadillac Hydramatic has a 1:1 final drive ratio so it is not "effectively...an overdrive." Despite your protestations that Authenticity Must Be Obeyed, you apparently like SOME modifications because your Packard 12 does not have its factory 4.69 gears--and someone has said you have an Oldsmobile differential in that Packard. Care to comment on that from your perspective that All Modifications Are Anathema?
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Your post is in error in most respects.
First of all, I do not air my superiority in here EVERY day. I don't have to. My dog knows the truth about my wonderfulness, so bragging about it in this site occurs, rarely, more than once a week.
Secondly, who told you my "Packard Twelve had factory 4.69 gears"? Obviously, not someone versed in Packards. True, a ratio that low could be special ordered, but most Packard Twelves, including mine, came from the factory with 4:41's. How do we know that? If the tranny is authentic and unmolested, there is a brass tag on the back-up light switch housing that makes it clear.
Thirdly, who told you I am against "all modifications" and think they are anathema"? Obviously, some changes from what came out the factory door can be made, and still be within the purpose of this particular Club.
Every car club I am a member of recognizes that, including this one. The question I proposed did not nake fun of those folks who like the sheet metal of some old car, but for any number of reasons want to make it more driveable. I rarely go to an auto show without being impressed with the craftsmanship and ingenuity of some of these creations. What my question was intended to do, is ask whether those who do that have missed the point of this particular club. As for "over-drives" - you are correct that what comes out of "band" style Hydramatic is direct drive. Because it has more than three speeds, Cadillac was free to install a much higher (numerically lower) rear axle ratio. So we are both right in that regard...I should have made my comment about that clearer.....given the final drive gear set of pre-war Hydramatic equipped Cads, the numerical ratio is roughly the same as a car of that era that did have a Borg Warner overdrive.
Finally, yes, you are partially correct that I have a modern era final drive ratio in my pre-war Packard Twelve. You'd have to be an expert on pre-war Packard's "Senior Division" products to spot what I did, and only by crawling underneath.
In the interest of being authentic (and component strength!) I kept my axle housing, the axles themselves, so that my spring mounts, brake attachment fittings, sway-bar mounts (yes, Packard engineers knew some owner's liked "roughing up" their cars - front and rear sway bars, a cross-bar on the rear axle to further control "body roll" in extreme speed driving (who wants to guess how I know that....!). A machine shop cut out the center "pumpkin", welded the two axle housing sections to it - machined the inner portions of my axles to fit the Olds splines.
Why? I did that when the Interstates started opening up. "Do the math".....and you will see that a typical highway speed of 75 mph, my engine, with all its accessories, is spinning so much slower than if I tried that with the stock/original final drive ratio.
So you are partially correct, my Twelve (that I have owned for sixty plus years - I am now 84) has had a few up-grades. I do not believe these upgrades are contrary to the objectives of THIS PARTICULAR CLUB!
Forgot to mention...i have an electric fuel pump installed in a secret place - reflects the much higher vapor pressure of today's gasoline.
May I again respectfully suggest a re-reading of Editor West Peterson's article on "up-grades" (see May/June 2023 of the ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE) In that article he notes things like electric fuel pumps, modern tires, modern seals, all consistent with the purpose of this club. I agree with him - this IS the right place for guys like him and I to discuss what WE prefer in the old car hobby.
Please don't blame me or West. This particular club has been in existence long before we were born. If you find what this particular club's focus on historical authenticity (along with common sense adjustments)....is t the right club for you - welcome! Plenty of other great organizations whose publications reflect what they think is appropriate.
A closing note on the 6 to 12 volt issue. Yes, I agree....wish my Packard Twelve had a 12 volt system. Most larger commercial-type trucks in the USA & Canada have had 12 volts since the late 1920's . ( My '36 American La-France V-12 with its monster 900 cubic inch overhead V-12 had that - two six volt batteries in series)
But did 6 volt systems work well; will do what a new car owner expects...whether it is a Ford or a Packard? Come to the SAN MARINO MOTOR CLASSIC (the "Pebble Beach of Southern California") in late-August, look me up in the Packard section, and ask me to start my car's engine. It will do what its original owner expected it to do. Start RIGHT NOW hot or cold. Because I take care of it. That holds just as true for old Fords, Buicks, and whatever else has a stock 6 volt electrical system.
see above
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UPGRADES:
I see a bit of anger and passion in some of the responses in here - apparently, a good number of the posters like the idea of modifying old cars; believe those of us who like the focus/purpose of the AACA and similar clubs are a bunch of rich, trophy-seeking Pebble Beach goer snobs..
I believe those assumptions are in error. My understanding is most AACA & CCCA members are ordinary mid-income folks, who joined the above organizations because we agree with their focus.
I personally have been attending various old car events since I started driving (with a learner's permit) in mid 1955. At such events, I am frequently impressed, sometimes overwhelmed with the outstanding workmanship on some of the "modified" cars I have seen.
May I respectfully suggest those of you who favor modifications, ask themselves whether you are familiar with, and if so, do you agree with the purpose of this particular organization?
May I suggest those of you who have access to AACA publications, read carefully the article 'UPGRADED" by WEST PETERSON on Page 8 of the May/June '23 issue of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE?
Yes, of course it is nicer, more comfortable, healthier to ride around in an air-conditioned, power steering equipped vehicle of the post-war era (well - let me qualify that about eras....my '41 Cadillac could be ordered with "factory air", a high-speed rear axle ratio and four speed (effectively that "top" gear was, at least from a numerical standpoint, an overdrive. Cruises comfortably at 80 MPH plus, with no overheating thanks to a pressurized cooling system). Sure more pleasant on a hot, humid day than driving around in my '38 Packard Twelve.. (which, incidentally, starts instantly hot or cold, thanks to its PROPERLY MAINTAINED "bone stock" 6 volt electrical system.!). (headlights work well too !)
Which reminds me.... I get a big "kick" out of people who call my cars "antique"....to me...an "antique" car is one with ANTIQUE features...meaning hi pressure tires, no brakes on front wheels, accetelyne gas lighting, "progressive" / "sliding gear" style transmissions...
So why not "gut" and throw away the old car you like- saving the exterior sheet metal & mount that on modern components?
Don't blame me - I did not write the guidelines/purpose of this particular Club. The AACA's purpose and objectives were set up long before I arrived on the old car scene.
May I respectfully suggest that after reading WEST'S outstanding articles, you ask yourselves whether you "up-grade types" are participating in the correct organization for your needs?
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Just now, ABear said:
Oh dear, prepare yourself for the barrage of pitchfork wielding conversion haters..
Yes - you have a point. As the generations change, and the culture changes with it, shouldn't this organization evolve to reflect that? WHy not rip an old vehicle apart, and install more modern, more advanced components?
I for one, bitterly resent the fact that the PACKARD MOTOR CAR COMPANY failed to offer "factory air" until two years after my car was producted. It steers nicely and easily once in motion...but hot damn....wouldn't power steering be nice when all 6,000 lbs of it are standing still?
And that ridiculous obsolete 480 cubic inch V-12....true....with its engine with its wedged-shaped combustion chamber... incredible torque, is doing nicely keeping up with modern traffic......BUT
I love tinkering with my new GMC diesel - which gets better fuel mileage moving its 8,000 lb. "crew-cab" body....WHILE TOWING THE PACKARD TWELVE INSIDE ITS 4,000 lb. enclosed "box" trailer....maybe I should shove the Packard back into my garage, and use my chain hoist to rip out its Twelve, and install a nice modern GMC/Durmax V-8diesel....hmmm...while at it...that silly old manual transmission should go to.....that ten speed in my new GMC shifts thru the gears so smoothly I really cant feel them.
Oh well..why bother...in only twenty years I can call that new truck of mine an "antique"...! (trouble is....wouldn't it be logical to rip out its present "guts" and enjoy "tinkering" with what becomes available in the future? (oh...some folks might say that makes no sense given what the AACA's purpose is......but...let's get "modern" in our thinking....!)
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9 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:
In fact, were I looking for a pristine vehicle to drive I would have just bought a new Navigator or other SUV, and called it “good”....... perfect investment for a guy who enjoys restoring cars more than he enjoys driving them......., now that I have replaced the original engine, transmission, drive shaft, brakes, and whateve,
So I am asking for the advice and suggestions of any well versed forum members on the plus, negative aspects of this plan.
Jack
Have you considered the advantages of a new vehicle...in terms of being an easier platform for you to improve? Are you aware that this particular organization encourages participants to encourage historical accuracy?
May I make a respectful suggestion - if you are seriously interested in the AACA and its interest in historical accuracy, wouldn't you be more true to our purpose; our reason for existence, to buy a new or un-modified vehicle?
Yes, you, as you note, may get more satisfaction from tinkering, than actually using a motor vehicle for 1) the purpose it was designed for....and 2) keeping it historically accurate. But "gutting" a vehicle and replacing what it was, with more modern components ...well....can you tell us how you feel that fits in with the purpose for which AACA exists?
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a note about DIAMOND. I have NO experience with them insofar as having trouble with their product. Reason? 1) they deal in a good product....and 2) they only ship out what has been thoroughly inspected!
How do I know this? That's what's on my 6,000 lb. Packard Twelve. How do I treat those tires - year after year with no problems? Terribly! My ranch is at the end of what can charitably be called a cow-trail. My private road leads out to pavement....where....well...let's just say...on second thought...let's not.....Packard Twelves were unique in many ways for cars of their era, insofar as extreme speed handling goes.....both FRONT & REAR sway bars...AND a lateral control arm on the rear suspension.........draw your own conclusions as to how I treat those outstanding DIAMOND tires.....I am to SOME degree respectful of the speed limts......! Photo below was, obviously, taken by someone else, during a CCCA tour up in the Colorado Rockies.
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12 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:
I was there! In the 1940s and1950s. They, vacuum wipers, never worked GOOD then. Dad was ecstatic with the first electric wipers. Your proverbial 1941 Cadillac driver knew no better. Ben
"You were there in the 1940's and 1950's...? Fascinating! You and I must have been in different "theres" in those years (we lived at 206-19 Richland Ave, Hollis Hills, New York (Long Island) (left in '45 to go to Tucson).
For your info, our 1941 Packard came factory equipped with electric wipers (was a Series 1901, Model 1492). Of interest, (many MANY years later), my own '41 Cadillac 60S also had electric motor-driven wipers - exactly when during 1941 GMC started going to electric wipers...i do not recall.
Where we apparently disagree, is whether the "Trico style" vacuum wiper motors "worked good then". So in addition to the "there", guess we had different "thens".
Nope...not making fun of present-day old car buffs......just a little depressing how much nonsense gets passed around by people who are involved with old cars that are the victims of neglect, outright abuse, and incompetent service.
Later day I will go to my spare parts storage - get out the spare fuel pump for my '38 Packard Twelve, and TRY and photo and then "post" a photo, so our present "experts" can see what the vaccum pump portion of the device looks like.
Sorry, I have no practical way of showing how my own old car's wipers work when climbing a grade/under "load" in the rain. See...I live in the high country of northern Arizona.....we have heard of a phenomena called "rain".....but i personally dont know where to go around here to find that!
Yes, I've owned and operated my Packard Twelve for some years now. Attached photo shows my "little" brother about to throw a snow-ball at me, with my parents standing in the background. It was a rainy, snowy day on the Angles Crest Highway....memory fails me....can't recall how my Twelve's windshield wipers worked that day. My suspicion...given how I maintained my Twelve then....as now....they probably worked damn well!
Oh - by the way....my Twelve's wipers do not work so well because they are in a Packard Twelve. Packard did not make windshield wiper motors, nor the vacuum pumps that drive them when vacuum is reduced "under load". They bought the wiper motors from TRICO and the fuel/vacuum pumps from AC. I happen to know from personal experience (I once owned the "Mae West" Series 90 Cadillac) that the EXACT same parts worked in my "there" and my "then", in the many other makes of cars of the vacuum windshield wiper era.
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Vacuum windshield wiper motors? Here's a thought....if they aren't working properly FIX THE DAMNED THING!
Perhaps someone who knows the current status of the FICKEN family business can chime in here - first the father, than the son took over the business of servicing TRICO vacuum wipers; they did mine some 30 years ago - still work properly.
How properly do they work when in working order? Well...for those who do not know, cars of the OP's era had vacuum wiper motors, driven by engine vacuum (when the motor wasn't under full load) or driven by a vacuum pump as part of the fuel pump assembly when under load. Look at the last scene "set up" in the movie CASABLANCA. Rainy night - late 30's or early 40's Buick in the scene....look at how fast those wipers flap back and forth...!
Here's a thought. A guy drives out of the showroom in his new '41 Cadillac; its a rainy evening. Who wants to bet he would find the wipers work properly, or wants to guess what would have happened to the delivery salesperson if everything wasn't just right....?
A presonal note.....how sad that so many of today's car buffs have no clue how pre-war cars were like, and can still be.....if properly serviced. Yes...I understand....given enough years of neglect and/or incompetent servicing, even a '41 Cadillac can be a rolling malfunction.
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I am confused about your post. What year Packard Super Eight do you personally have - meaning...'34, '35, '36? (for those not a "devotee" of Packard history, the "REAL" Super Eight was discontinued at the end of 1936 production. What Packard sold for '37 as a "Super Eight" was the MUCH smaller and less powerful "Standard" Eight of previous years, (slightly warmed over....!).
And when you say "cylinder "block" do you mean just that, or are you using those terms in the generic sense, meaning the entire engine casting (for those not familiar with Packard "Senior Division" eight cylinder cars, the crankcase lower half was an aluminum casting - essentially a carry over of this by-then obsolete motor from 1926 - the Twelves and most other manufacturers had gone to "one piece" engine castings.
1934 was the last year for the "poured babbit" connecting rod bearing. 1935 Packard connecting rods of ALL Packards were equipped with "insert" style precision steel-backed bearing inserts - a vastly superior concept. Connecting rod failure was pretty much eliminated by that. (rod failure had become so common when these pre 1935 Packards were driven "at speed", that I have rarely seen one whose crankcase casting did not show signs of a patch where a rod had punched thru!
Justs for fun, am going to TRY and "attach" a photo of my own '34 Super Eight (taken at a CCCA event in 1956). (Wasn't fast enough for me; explains why I dumped it and got my Twelve later that year...!)
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Custom rear hub pullers. George McMurtry
in General Discussion
Posted
You lost me. How would it be possible to "over-grease leading to looseness and slippage". Perhaps you didnt know. Design engineers establish torque figures - typically set on the basis of the size, thread type, and metal composition. A properly designed tapered shaft has a machined key-way. Using a torque wrench in the correct way, at the correct settings...well....let's see....in the 60+ years I have owned, driven on a more or less regular basis, and serviced my '38 Packard Twelve's rear axle/brakes, I have yet to have any "slippage". Oh well..the day is young.... ? ? ?