1965rivgs

Hi Steve, What is the body build date of your car? Thanks, Tom

Wonder what it looked like before he started the body work? Right side in primer, rear end panel replaced and no bumpers in sight...Looks like the hold down bracket for the rad is missing. I`ve seen this color combo with a factory black vinyl top, very striking in pristine condition. Tom

The early cars were painted body color. The change probably occurred during the Christmas break. It was typical to make such changes at that point. Tom Mooney

Some `63`s are body color from the factory...Jim? Tom Mooney

No such animal as a "baby" Gran Sport?? I dont get the point? As stated, a "baby" Gran Sport is an early GS with the first edition "baby" or smaller Gran Sport emblems?? Is the point that Buick never called the early cars "baby"?? :confused: Tom Mooney

I love the vinyl top on the `65`s....and without! Added mid-year on the `65`s...only 1000 produced. Raul already has the moldings Tom Mooney

With the understanding that color choice is about the most subjective topic around I have looked over and owned quite a few `65`s so I`ll chime in... The Fawn (really champagne) interior is hands down the most elegant interior choice in a `65. Paired with an arctic white exterior really brings "up" the shimmer in the cloth and the pearl look of the champagne vinyl. When the materials are fresh it is simply stunning when paired with NOS floor mats, a nice wood wheel and fresh walnut inserts in the side panels and console. The materials dont fair well with sun exposure as the cloth loses its shimmer and the vinyl turns to a green tint. But when it is nice...MAN is it gorgeous. Having said that it is very much a ladies combo. Yes, it can be manned up with the right options, like the GS package and chrome wheels, but overall it is elegant, pretty and very "like the `60`s model in the ads" Buick. I like the dark green interior but the carpets must be nice, still rich in color and the walnut panels dark and rich as originally intended to complement the deep green color...otherwise the green vinyl appears drab and faded like the aforementioned elements when they are well worn. I`m not crazy about the dark green against the white exterior. Although the green and white combo was popular on some `60`s cars, like my beloved `62 Olds 98 4 window hardtop, it seems in the Riv a dark green interior calls for a different exterior color with less contrast...like the original verde green (very european sports car-like) or possibly a `65 Cadillac color like Jade Firemist. I like the `65 in arctic white, looks great, but I cant imagine anything more boring than white over black...except maybe all beige or all light green, like a seafoam with the rather rare green cloth interior. If the condition of the car is pristine, of course, it will look great, but I doubt I would take a second look. Maybe add a factory black vinyl top to tie the interior and exterior together? I`d probably take a good, long look at that. This question is most probably one which should have been asked and answered before purchase. Seems a shame to dye a nice original interior in a car whose best claim to fame is its originality. They dont make `em in expanded vinyl like that expanded vinyl anymore! Just rambling...sorry, bottom line is the most important opinion is the guy or gal who is paying for it! Tom

The 3:23 pigs should not be hard to find or "over the top" pricey. It is very common to find those gears in the Dynaflow equipped cars and those gears will swap into the more common posi carrier. So, if one finds a 3:07 posi from a `65 and 3:23 gears from a `63 open rear the gear sets will swap back and forth. The 3:42 and higher gear sets are another story. The carrier is different due to the thickness of the ring gear and both the carrier and gears are very hard to find....more so the carrier as one can use 3:42 gears from a GS Riv right thru `70 and up. The higher gear set carriers basically only come from the `65 GS cars...or a Buick ambulance! Quick story...I bought a `65 GS parts car and just before I was about to leave the seller told me he had some parts left over from a `66 Wildcat he had recently bought and immediately sold. I hesitated at first because I was pressed for time but he said if I did not want them he intended to throw them in the trash. He walked me to a small room off his garage and there on the shelf was a `66 Quadrajet manifold and carb and an NOS 3:91 gear set. Turns out he bought the `66 Wildcat from a fellow who was weekend drag racing it. We`re still friends after all these years..what a guy! Moral of the story....make time when sniffing out old cars and always, ALWAYS ask if the seller has any extra parts..preferably before you close the deal! Tom Mooney

Not sure about the `63`s but all `65 floor vent covers have three holes whether the trim is standard or custom. The top two are for rivets which affix the cover to the cardboard backing and the 3rd lower hole accommodates the screw which secures the kickpanel assembly to the body. Tom Mooney

Hi Raul, There is exactly 4 inches of space between the bottom of the rear window stainless molding to the top of the long, side to side vinyl top molding- measurement taken at the lower corners of the rear window. If you measure 4 inches down from the bottom of the rear window stainless molding on each side to place the center vinyl top molding the corner pieces for the vinyl top will fall into place...really no need for a pic, very straight forward. But if you are more comfortable with a pic I can send one....hardest part is getting up the nerve to start drilling holes in the body and snapping off the ends of the quarter beltline moldings...all the while wondering "how bad do I want this vinyl top??" Go for it! Good luck! Tom Mooney

Rob, Keep in mind, if you choose stainless, they may require a little more torque on the line nuts to get them to seal properly. The stainless is less prone to conform to a flare than regular steel. Double check your work for seepage after applying full hydraulic pressure. Tom Mooney

You can also use the original distribution block in its original location. Remove the line which feeds the rear brakes and run it directly to the rear reservoir. Sounds like you are running new brake lines anyway, right? Then place a plug in its original location on the original block....simple! Tom Mooney

Hi Gary, Matching numbers is best but original docs and/or POP is almost as good. Check for a dark green booklet, same size as an owners manual. The POP will be affixed to the back page. If you`re a Chevy guy I know you know what a POP is. In the absence of the original engine I would like to see a 425 and not a replacement 401. Check the casting number behind the distributor on the top of the bellhousing. If the last three digits are "704" you have a 425. In regard to the H2 suspension option check the ratio of the steering box. If the steering wheel turns 3 and 7/8ths turns lock to lock you have the standard box/suspension. If the wheel turns 2 and 7/8ths turns you have the quick box/H2 suspension. UNLIKE subsequent years the quick steering was part of the H2 suspension package in `65. The relative rarity of the LX equipped non-GS cars does not translate into increased value for the same reason buyers rarely chose that option in `65. Why settle for just the dual quads when you can have the whole package? In `65 it was only a couple of dollars extra, still true in a builder condition specimen but on the other end, after restoration, it will be worth much more. For what it`s worth, given the limited photos and considering opinions are like axxholes (everybody`s got one!), if the car is not hammered up, is not rotted, and can become a driver with some fuss, the price you stated is a no-brainer. Also consider this opinion is coming from a life long, rust belt resident. Good luck! Buy the car, join the club. Please note that if you pass on this Riv you can PM the contact info to me. I promise I`ll give it the care it deserves, a rebuilt headlight motor and a good home.... Tom Mooney

My Clark`s catalog has pricing. It`s listed on a one page pricing sheet. Tom Mooney

Jim, does the car in the last pic you posted have the split horns or on the same side? Same car as previous illustrations? I am accustomed to seeing an independent ground screw outboard of the cruise transducer, between the brake booster and transducer. Having said that I have never been particular regarding the 4 notes as they are all dealer/owner installed so, really, anything goes and there is no "correct". I`m going to check a parts car I have which does not have the 4 notes and never had, to see if there is a dimple in the firewall to guide installation. I doubt it because the factory didn`t install these things but worth a look. The info in the service bulletin I referenced is at best questionable. The bulletin claims the factory was notching the flange on the firewall since "the beginning of production" but it seems ridiculous that Buick would be cutting up the firewall to provide for an accessory that may or may not be installed at the dealer. Bottom line is what we observe on well kept original cars and not what the lit says or illustrates. I have never seen a car with a notched firewall flange (except yours!) If I was the tech installing the horns I would probably have whacked it with the round end of a ball peen and called it good! It seems to me some aspects of the service bulletin are engineering CYA! Jim, have you recorded any actual `63`s without the AC muffler? Tom Mooney

I use small brackets attached to the front and rear heads on opposite corners. A chain with hooks is looped thru the brackets. Use good fasteners and be sure they are tight as you are pulling at a right angle to the fasteners, think shearing. I also remove the torque converter bolts and bellhousing bolts and pull the engine seperately from the trans. No need for levelers, balancers, etc...keep it simple and the engine slides in and out very easily. Tom Mooney

Hi Jim, What source is the paper documentation? See `63 service bulletin #63-48 titled "4 Note Horn Interference"...you may find the info interesting. Tom

I have never seen a Riv with the horns stacked on the driver`s side with the ground wire under the cruise transducer holdown bolt...at least not that I have noticed. Is the ground wire physically long enough? Have always seen the ground wire with a dedicated ground screw. Interested in your estimation of the changeover from the split horns to both on the driver`s side. Any factory sources to reference the changeover like a service or P and A bulletin? Tom

Mark, Not sure what "rounded" terminal you are referring to but I can only guess it is the tuning screw used to fine tune the note and volume of the horn. The correct, factory mounting of the ground circuit is under the bracket mounting bolt. This is clearly illustrated in the third pic from the left, top row of the illustrations Jim provided. Point of the ground wire is to ground the whole hood, not just the single horn. Tom Mooney

Hi Jim, What data are you using to refer to a time frame of changeover in horn mounting location? Do you have any factory lit or just observation? Also, why would AC be a consideration? Thanks, Tom

The ground wire is captured under the horn mounting bolt. Only wiring carrying voltage should be connected to the terminals. The ground wire is in the pics Jim provided, it is difficult to see. BTW..the wiring harness in the pics is what I expect to see on a `65 as it is black with a blue tracer. Tom Mooney

Email sent...TTT Tom Mooney

Try a search on Ebay like "`64 buick" and you should find a selection of pre-packaged fasteners like "interior screw set", etc...probably cheap fasteners in these kits but better than no fasteners at all! Tom Mooney

I use an AC vacuum pump to supply a constant source of vacuum. These are expensive but I already have one for AC work. One can make an effective vacuum pump from the compressor of an old frig. Takes a little ingenuity but it works. It`s what I used as a youngster before I could afford a Snap-on pump. Good luck! Tom Mooney

As has been stated this is a common problem with any car that sits idle for a prolonged period of time. Jim`s advice is great and will no doubt cure the prolonged cranking issue but try the following first and see if it works for you.. It is true prolonged cranking can overheat the starter and add unnecessary wear and tear but a little cranking after an idle period is not all bad. I dont mind a few extra seconds of cranking as it gets the oil pressure building for initial startup. First item to check is the accelerator pump in the carb. If the pump is not providing a good sustained shot of fuel this will not only cause excessive cranking on cold startup but a definite bog when accelerating hard even after the engine is warmed up. After the engine is up to temp and the carb bowl is up to level take off the air cleaner and look down into the primary(front) side of the carb-engine off !!! Quickly open the throttle as if jamming the accel pedal to the floor and look for a healthy and sustained shot of fuel from the primary nozzles located in the upper air horn in the center. The nozzles project into each barrel from a central point which looks much like a battleship gun turret. If there is no accel pump shot the carb needs work. If the accel pump checks OK there is a method I use which can reduce cranking time. Crank the engine for about 5 to 10 seconds. At this point most folks depress the pedal to the floor once or twice to set the choke but because there is a less than an ideal level of fuel in the bowl this does not provide enough raw gas in the manifold to initiate starting. Instead, try depressing the pedal 5 times or more. Although there is little fuel in the bowl and the accel pump shot volume is diminished, pumping the pedal excessively will usually result in enough fuel in the manifold to get started, or at least get the engine to turn over a few times and help fill the carb bowl. If the car tries to start and run but dies, pump the pedal 5 times again, remove your foot from the pedal so the choke is completely closed, and the engine will usually spring to life with enough fuel in the manifold to stay running. Works for me. Also a good idea to keep a trickle charger on the car if sitting for a few weeks or longer to provide a healthy spark. Have fun, Tom Mooney