jeff_a

Dear 1937hd45, Nice thread you started. I find pre-WWI and pre-WWII cars quite interesting. I always think: "Why get a 70's car when you can get a 60's car...why get a 60's car when you can get a 50's car"...etc. Carried to the extreme, I guess, that philosophy would mean you'd have a garage full of London-to-Brighton Run cars. I think I read on some old post of yours that you went to a car show at Knott's Berry Farm a long time ago. The first car show I went to was one my dad took me to at Knott's Berry Farm around 1960. I remember that there was an 1895 Duryea there an actor owned, and, even as a kid, I thought that was ancient. I have a 1930 Ford Coupe { I've had this since 1970 } and a 1928 Peerless Roadster Coupe { I've only had it three weeks }. What's funny is that these cars are now significantly older than the Duryea was back then! I'm the one who started that thread about Barney Pollard's collection a year or so ago that even his grandson contributed to. I usually hang out down on the Peerless Forum instead of up here on the General Interest Forum.

That car was for sale on the AACA Forums and sold 2 years ago. It was a 1927 Model 6-60 "Roadster Coupe" and is now owned by a Peerless Club member in Quebec.

A new Peerless has appeared on ebay recently. In November, there was a pretty nice-looking 1929 Peerless with red wire wheels and dual sidemounts for sale in the Oneida, New York area. It did not sell and is still for sale. It needs a full restoration, but the owner said he got the motor running a couple of years ago and the car is 95% complete. Neither I nor the owner are sure of the model or body style...but the car has a six and has the kind of 4-passenger body style that is sometimes referred to as a Victoria, 4-Passenger Coupe, Doctor's Coupe, or Opera Coupe. There is a fitted case in the rear seating area that may be for a top hat. Minimum price, I believe, is $6,500.

I was looking at your Early American Automobiles site again today and enjoyed seeing the great number of photos, including many I'd never seen before. Great pictures of 1914, 1917 and 1927 Peerlesses, by the way. If you would allow me to point out a picture that might have gotten a caption reversed with another car, you might want to look at the one of the lavender car titled "1915 Dodge Runabout"; it appears to be more along the lines of a 1929 Ruxton or a 1930 Dupont. Also, the car listed as a 1917 Lincoln is definitely a Lincoln, but I think they were still building aircraft engines in 1917, so that could be a little newer (maybe a 1921?) auto, and possibly even one built in the Henry Leland days, before Ford owned the Company.

Bryan, Your mention earlier of good prices on Porsche 928's reminds me of a '72 Lamborghini Espada someone had for sale six years ago in B.C. It was only $15,000 OBO BUT it had a missing rear seat and a seized engine. A great deal going into the ownership of such a car........but what they call a "Fright Pig" when you look at repair and operational costs. Insurance agents like to price cars like this ( the Lamborghinis not the Porsches ) off the road as far as their liability & collision coverage rates, too. I thought the 911's were the flagship of the Porsche line. Did the 928's cost more or drive better? I've never been in a Porsche, but remember some kid in my high school drove a new 911 Targa. I remember parking next to it at the H.S. parking lot in my Model "A" Coupe and noticing that we were about the only guys there who didn't have 8-tracks!:cool:

Thanks for the comment. I didn't know if tires designed for demountable rims are interchangeable with tires designed for clincher rims, which I assume the Model AA truck tires are. I'm guessing it wouldn't make any difference, but I was wondering if a 1928 Peerless Model 6-80 car specifying 6.00 x 20's could use tires intended for an AA truck (I noticed my Mike's A-Fordable catalog had some at a good price).

Will a 6.00 x 20 Ford AA Truck tire fit on a passenger car demountable rim that is designed for 6.00 x 20 tire?

Mark, Thank you for stopping by the Peerless Forum. On the thread here about "How to Identify your Peerless" (on the 2nd page of threads) it says there was a serial number spread from 5201-6200......and that the stamping was on the top of the timing gear housing. Thank PeerlessBelgium for that data. On the thread "Peerless Visit Forthcoming" there is a photo Bryan Moran took of a 1920 and a 1918 Peerless you might like to see. I don't actually own a Peerless V-8, but you may want to contact The GreenDragon and myreo who have practical experience with them.

December 12th, 2009. There are currently some people carrying on a discussion about a heretofore-undiscovered 1925 Peerless on the AACA General Discussion Forum. I believe the car is a Model 6-72 Sedan, is in New Jersey, and is for sale at $10,500. There are even photos! The original post is from "broker-bob", who has seen the car and is interested in buying it.

Dear twistwrench, Great to hear about and see a picture of your 1918 Peerless. Quite a grand car! I'm not familiar with your car personally, but had read about John Rich's ownership of it on the Peerless Motor Car Club's owner's list. You have probably looked at it already, but please feel welcome to leave posts on the Peerless Forum as well as here on the General Discussion Forum.

Royal, Your link on post # 57 doesn't work. I think you left out a "u" after the last "a" of the highlighted address.

In case you were thinking that 1925 Peerless cars were rare like 1965 GTO's are rare, my records show that about six 1925's may exist, with two possibly being V-8's. 1925 list price for this model was $2,565.

Dear broker-bob, Thanks for telling us on the AACA Forums about the Peerless you found. Good photos, actually! As BJM and The Green Dragon said, though Peerlesses defy hard and fast estimations of value, $10,500 may be a little high for a price. For that, you'd be tempted to say: "Yes, drive it over on Sunday and we'll see how she drives." I try to keep track of all the Peerless cars & trucks worldwide, and am not really familiar with this car at all. Of course, I don't know last name of owner or even what country it's in. RHL was right that the Collins Six motors are interesting. They are about 289 c.i.d. and 70 h.p. If that's the motor in the car you'd notice that the crankcase is aluminum. Peerlesses are a little hard to establish model year on. Based on photos and cars I've seen, the car's dash is exactly right for a 1926 or 1927 Peerless. Motor layout looks right for one of the Peerless 289's -- used in Models 6-70, 6-72, 6-90 and 6-91 (total production of about 14,oo0 ....maybe 23 still exist). Sorry if parts of this message are a little jumbled...I just got home from driving all night as part of a nine-day road trip to the wwilds of Los Angeles and back. My educated guess is that this may be a Model 6-72 Peerless Sedan built after August, 1925, making it officially a '26. Of course, if you take a '26 & title it in '25, u have a '25, in some states. All for now, Jeff

Nice idea for a thread. I once was at an auction 20 years ago at which I could have had a 1910 Buick Raceabout, Model 16 or 17, for about $3,500 and a Full Classic Cabriolet for about $1,700. I didn't have the money in checking, but was expecting a similar amount in a year or so. Couldn't figure out where to get the money for the purchase. They ought to advertise loans for that kind of thing! The classic was a '26 Elcar. My Grandfather had a similar "Ought-Oh" moment once. In 1944, some local character who had fallen on hard times came to his jewelry store and said he had a car he knew he'd be interested in buying and he would like to get cash for it. My Grandfather told him he'd had his eye on it awhile but...it being 1944...you couldn't get parts or gas for it and declined. The price: $500. The car: priceless. A 1929 Model J Duesenberg Murphy Roadster.

keiser31, They're all pickup trucks. The J-20 is a 3/4 ton -- the J-10 is a 1/2 ton -- both usually with 360 V-8's {a 401 was available, too}. The Comanches all look like Jeep Cherokees and usually had 4.0 L I-6's {if you believe me, a diesel was actually offered when they were introduced in 1986}.

Steve Braverman, Thanks for the photo of the Franklin Pursuit. I had never heard of one until this week. Quite an automobile! Olympic, You said that three companies used the same body. You might want to add a fourth to the list: Peerless. Though I have never seen it mentioned anywhere else, the Hayes entry on the coachbuilt.com site says that the Marmon Big 8 had the same body as the 1930-1932 Peerless Custom Eight. The text said something to the effect that the public was not likely to notice similar body lines on cars, because they usually just looked at the radiator shell or company logo to tell the cars apart. Upon re-reading the listing for Hayes at: www.coachbuilt.com, it says the Marmon and Peerless had one body...and the '32-'34 Reo Flying Cloud, and '33-'34 Franklin Olympic shared another.

1930 Ford Model A ( enclosed ) 1931 Ford Model A Deluxe (...it's a rare body style with chrome-plated metal rails along the top of the bed sides)* 1988 Jeep J-20 1987 Jeep J-10 1992 Jeep Comanche 1991 Jeep Comanche 1990 Jeep Comanche 1989 Jeep Comanche 1987 Jeep Comanche 1986 Jeep Comanche * I've been a Model A owner for 40 years and have never seen one. They must be about as rare as Model A Town Cars!

I saw a 1924 Peerless 6-70 with Gabriel Snubbers, and have read that the 1926 6-80 and 6-72 models had them listed under "standard equipment".

This post is so old it pre-dates the AACA Forums. The following is from a Peerless owner in Norway from March 7th, 1998: "To anyone out there who know something about Peerless cars ( the American cars from before 1930 ). I want to come in contact with you." ----Egil Johansen egil@porsnes.vgs.no found on: www.alt.autos.antique [Note:neither of these links work anymore] There was also a post on this site about parts he wanted to trade, from March 2nd, 1998: "I want to get in contact with owners of Peerless cars. Im also interested in trading parts for this car." Egil Johansen Norway I have never been able to find out what part of Norway Egil and his car are in, or what year the car is. I think both EGIL and JOHANSEN are common names in his country. I think "porsnes" may be a school. It's interesting to think that somewhere in the fjords or on the Hardangervidda of Norway someone might have a 1909 (or a 1929 ) Peerless! -Jeff

Rusty, I hadn't seen many posts from you for awhile and am glad to see that you're back. I have enjoyed reading a lot of your comments, like the ones on the thread of a lady wanting advice on writing a historical novel set in 1905 and wanting suggestions on what autos to use. I was hoping some Marmon Club members would already have answered your questions, but I'll give it the old college try. I believe the body is by Hayes. I think the designer was Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky, who designed for Minerva, Hispano-Suiza, Cadillac, Packard, Mercedes and Peerless as well. This is going out on a limb, but it may say "Hayes Body Series 70" somewhere on the firewall. I read most of this on the coachbuilt.com site, under Hayes. I agree with you and Wayne on the looks of the Marmon. Very stately. Beautiful restoration.

Thank you for your thoughts on the Green Dragon race cars. I read about the 17-liter capacity of the first Green Dragon in the 1973 Automobile Quarterly piece that Maurice Hendry wrote. Sorry if I repeated what may be a misprint on the part of the publishers. To paraphrase a historian's axiom: "The facts never change, but history sure does!". Hendry actually said that the bore & stroke was 6" x 6".....but I don't have enough of an engineer's mind to look at those figures and say "Gee, that's not seventeen liters!". Maybe Mr. Hendry uses the AACA Discussion forums, too, and he could comment. I think he lives in New Zealand. One thing which I thought was great about his chapter, "All That The Name Implies: The Peerless Story" was that he seems to have talked to some of the Peerless designers and engineers who were still around in the 60's or 70's about the company's activities. In The American Automobile by Ralph Stein, there's a brief passage about what may have happened to one of Barney's Peerless racers: "Oldfield sold one of the 'Green Dragons' to my friend Ray Gilhooley in 1908. Ray cracked it up first time out at the Brighton Beach track."

Great story, Peter I actually like the Bugatti Veyron, and am sorry to see the car go in the water. There are some great road tests of the car they've done on Top Gear, the BBC America show. Who knows if the driver really is wealthy. Maybe it's a rental!

Dear JustDave, There was a wreck bearing some resemblance to the one you describe in one of the Green Dragon Race Cars. Barney Oldfield was driving a Peerless in a 1904 race in St. Louis, went off the track, hit eight fenceposts, twelve people and an oak tree. Though nearly killed, Barney recuperated enough to have a romance with one of his nurses, return to racing for years, and live until at least 1946...which contraindicates decapitation...as Dr. Joel Fleischman would point out. Green Dragon Race Car No. 1 was destroyed by the wreck and the angry mob that took home bits of it for souvenirs, according to one story. I WISH it had been buried and someone would tell me where it is....wouldn't mind having an 11-litre Peerless race car to tool around in!

The Old Guy, I've only been to the collection in Nebraska, and thought that was large. I have a feeling the Lemay Museum holdings are so big, they couldn't even tell you how many cars of a certain make they have.

Irlforfun, Yikes! I'm sure you're a contender for King of 1960's Buicks.