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Rusty_OToole

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Posts posted by Rusty_OToole

  1. Tiny bit of trivia here, Chrysler was the first company to go to electric wipers starting in 1939. The 52 Dodge did not have vacuum wipers, they were electric, which is why the manifold does not have a vacuum port BUT there should be plugs where a fitting can be screwed in just in case. Thought you might like to know why the Vacuum port is "missing".

     

    And yes, vacuum for distributor advance is quite different from manifold vacuum. They do not interchange.

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  2. One way to check this is by finding the crossover point of the cam in relation to the crankshaft. First you must verify or mark TDC on the crank pulley. Then using dial indicators, find the spot where intake and exhaust valves are open the same amount. One will be opening, the other closing, and a very small rotation will change the measurement. The crossover point should be at or near TDC. Like a couple of degrees.  If it is way off you have a problem.

     

    Incidentally advancing the cam enhances low speed cylinder filling, retarding it helps at higher speed. This is an old stock car racer's trick. But they would advance or retard the cam a couple of degrees at a time using an offset bushing or key.

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  3. 1 minute ago, kramaton said:

    Just be sure you are on #1 cylinder compression stroke for TDC.  Exhaust stroke the piston will be all the way up also. 

    Good point. It won't matter for setting timing but you can check by seeing where the rotor points. If timing an engine from scratch you can remove the #1 spark plug, turn the engine until air wooshes out and you are on the compression stroke. Top of the compression stroke is when the plug fires.

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  4. 2 hours ago, InsideTrader said:

    How do you feel about the timing method Ben Bruce aka First Born described above?  It seems easy enough even I could do it.  :)

    Either method will work. My method will work even if you have the engine completely apart and have to time it from scratch. Requires no tools except a bit of stiff wire, wrench, and ciggy paper. Bruce's method will give the best performance and is easy to do if you have a vacuum gauge and  IF the engine is close to begin with.

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  5. 4 hours ago, InsideTrader said:

    I found a YouTube video of a guy with the same engine and his was hesitating exactly like mine is.  They sounded identical.  His was a timing issue.  He adjusted the timing and solved his issue.  I have never adjusted timing in my life other than on a diesel engine.  I’ve YouTubed it and I know you loosen that screw and twist the distributor but I don’t understand timing light usage nor do I have one.  I’ve also heard of people timing with a vacuum gauge but I don’t feel I have a really good understanding of that either.  I’ve also heard horror stories of guys not timing correctly and either damaging their engine by firing way too soon or running the engine way too hot on the EGTs.  So screwing with the timing makes me nervous.  I was hoping it could be as simple as trial and error and just adjust it until it sounds like it’s running the best.  But I haven’t seen any YouTube videos of guys doing that.  :)

    Chrysler built flatheads have a unique feature that makes timing a cinch. Look on the cylinder head, above the last cylinder, you will find a small pipe plug. If you unscrew this plug, there is a hole above the piston. Drop the point of a screwdriver down the hole and it will hit the piston. Now you can slowly turn the crankshaft until the piston is as high as it goes, that is called Top Dead Center. #6 and #1 piston rise and fall together so you have found the perfect position to set the timing.

     

    Now you can pop the distributor cap off and connect a 12 volt test light across the points. Slowly turn the distributor until the light lights up. That means the points just opened. When the points open, the spark plug fires.

     

    If you do not have a test light put a cigarette paper between the points and turn the distributor as you gently tug on the paper. When it slips free the points are open.

     

    This method eliminates the crankshaft pointer and timing marks which on some cars, can slip out of place over the years.

     

    You can use a wire in place of a screwdriver but bend a loop in the top so it can't fall into the cylinder.

     

    What I described is the factory setting of TDC or Top Dead Center. If you feel ambitious you can give it a little extra advance for better power and performance. This is where the vacuum gauge comes in.

  6. 1 hour ago, 1939_Buick said:

    From a private message InsiderTrader sent me.  Others will know more and be able to answer

     

     

    1 hour ago, 1939_Buick said:

    can I ask you a question about the vacuum advance?  The distributor side of that vacuum line has what looks like electrical tape around it.  I have also noticed a leaking air sound that I didn't think too much of until your post.  Is it possible I have a vacuum leak in that line someone tried to fix with tape?  And can I simply take that line to an auto parts store and get a new one to replace it?  Is it that simple?

    I wouldn't put anything past the bird who put in those spark plugs and installed that alternator. The rubber hose from the carb to the distributor is a standard item you can buy by the foot at any auto parts store. Suggest you take the old one off and buy a new one.

     

    If you want to get icky, the 1952 Dodge had a solid steel line. By 1961 most cars were using a rubber hose. If they put the newer carb and distributor on the old engine, it would explain the rubber hose. If it is a mixture of parts it could be a home made lash up.

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  7. When your engine was new compression was about 120 and oil pressure 45. What you have now is a well worn 72 year old engine. The amazing thing about Chrysler built flatheads, is their ability to keep running in an advanced state of decay without knocks or bangs, without making a fuss of any kind. They just get slower, hard to start, and burn more oil and gas.

     

    If that motor was in a car you planned to drive from coast to coast, or use for every day commuting I would suggest you plan on a rebuild. Not right away but in the near future.

     

    In your case it will probably last as long as you want it to and if it doesn't, you haven't lost anything. So I would suggest you change oil, check points and plugs and reset to factory specs, adjust carb and let it go at that. A little heavier oil might curb oil burning a bit but don't go too heavy, 15W40 is fine. The main thing is it should have oil in the crankcase, don't let it run dry.

     

    One little odd fact no one has mentioned. Your tug was made in 1961, two years after they stopped putting those engines in cars. By that time they were only available as industrial and marine engines, and in some heavy trucks and military vehicles.

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  8. Maybe they were some old airplane plugs they had lying around. Not hard to get the right plugs for a 52  Dodge, all the spark plug co's have them. They probably changed the part number a few times over the years. As a rule I prefer to use the OEM brand but it shouldn't make much difference which brand as long as they are the right part .

  9. More likely a leaky rear main seal on the engine. Or, is there a vent on top of the trans? If there is, and it is plugged up, can build up pressure and cause a leak.

  10. 54 minutes ago, InsideTrader said:

    Rusty, I am in further need of your wisdom. I pulled all of my spark plugs to check gap.  They all needed to be closed a little bit but I got them all done except for one.  The plug closest to the flywheel looked like it had been hit and the gap was almost completely closed.  When I looked in the hole, it looked like it made contact with wherever is under it.  The plugs that are in it are rv12yc champions.  Those are not what you said they should be and I wonder if my plugs are too long.  I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

    Also, I don’t know how to ask this without sounding like an idiot but where in the heck to I put oil in this engine?  Am I overlooking something obvious?

    Easy question first. That big pipe on the left side of the engine by the distributor is the oil filler. Pull off the black cap and there you are.

     

    There may be something in the back cylinder that is not supposed to be there. If you have an air compressor stick the hose in the spark plug hole and blow it around, see if anything comes out or seems to be blowing around. Hope it's not a broken valve or piston. The spark plug is over the valves so unless you have a broken valve spring it should not hit the plug.

     

    OEM spark plugs were Autolite. Yours may be the Champion equivalent. The number I gave is probably obsolete.

     

    Did you do a compression test?

  11. 8 hours ago, InsideTrader said:

     There is a black rubber tube going from the carb to the distributor.  I don’t know what that’s about.  It has some sort of valve looking thing between the exhaust and intake manifold under the carb.  There is a wobble in the crank pulley that powers the fan belt.  I cannot imagine the crank is bent because I wouldn’t think it would run if so but maybe I’m wrong.

    Rubber tube is for the vacuum advance. Valve is the heat riser valve, directs hot exhaust toward the carb when cold for quick warm up. Wobble is probably a bent pulley but could be loose bolts, might pay to check with a wrench. Looks like someone adapted a Ford Motorcraft alternator in place of the original generator.

  12. Inside, from what you have told us I suspect that is a used engine that was put in the tug at some point to replace the original. It seems to be well worn with low compression, oil pressure on the low side, and considerable blowby. But starts and runs without knocks or bangs. In other words a typical Dodge flathead . For your purposes will probably keep going for another 40 years.

    Think I would revise my oil recommendation from 10W30 to 15W40 but no heavier.

     

    It would not be hard to rebuild but for your use I would not bother.

     

    Clean and gap the spark plugs, file and set the points, check timing. Adjust carb for a smooth idle. If it seems sluggish and down on power live with it.

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  13. Engine Specs- 1951 - 52 Dodge D42

     

    Bore X stroke - 3 1/4 X 4 5/8

    Displacement - 230.2 cu in

    Compression Ratio - 7.00:1

    Horsepower - 103@3600RPM

    Torque - 190@1200RPM

    Oil Pressure - 45PSI

    Spark Plug - AR-8

    Spark Plug Gap - .035

    Points Gap - .020

    Dwell - 39 degrees

    Firing Order - 153624

    Timing - TDC

    Battery - 6 volt, positive ground (this is for a 1951. Yours is probably 12v negative ground)

     

    Hope this information comes handy.

    2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

    3 1/4 x 4 5/8 230.2 7.00 103 @ 3600 190 @ 1200 45 AR-8 .035 .020 39 153624 TDC +6

     

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  14. As you know, what you have is a 1951 or 1952 Dodge car engine. 230 Cu In and (I think) 103HP? I expect when built in 1961 it had a Chrysler industrial engine that was swapped out for a used Dodge at some point.

    BoreXstroke/cu in/compression/HP/Torque/Oil press/Spark plug/Plug gap/Points gap/Dwell/Firing order/Timing/Ground volts

    3 1/4 x 4 5/8 230.2 7.00 103 @ 3600 190 @ 1200 45 AR-8 .035 .020 39 153624 TDC +6
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  15. Nothing wrong with synthetic but it is wasteful and unnecessary especially when you change it so frequently. Also, synthetic can leak out thru gaskets and seals that are perfectly ok with conventional oil. As I said I would use plain ol 10W30 in fact, I would probably use Walmart house brand and save a little money.

     

    It sounds like a normal, old engine with normal wear. If it starts, runs and drives OK I would not worry about it. I would not even buy new spark plugs, just clean and adjust spark plugs and points, check air filter, change oil and let it go at that. Those old Dodges will run forever in an advanced state of wear. They just get harder to start, low on power and burn more gas and oil.

     

    I presume you are keeping it as a curiosity. If you plan on dragging B29s around all day that is a different story lol.

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  16. Serial number stamped on a raised pad on the left front of the block, high up near the head, behind the generator. If it is an industrial engine may have a plate rivetted to the block on the right side, in the middle, low down near the pan rail.

     

    It sounds like your industrial engine was replaced by a Dodge car engine of the same type. This could mean the original was swapped out for a factory rebuilt or just a junkyard engine.

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  17. On the question of, does it need to be rebuilt? Probably not, but if you want to be sure answer these questions. What is the oil pressure? What is the compression?

    Oil pressure should be 30PSI at 30MPH or the equivalent. 10 or 15 at idle.

    Compression around 100 ideally. But if it is the same on all cylinders, within 10 pounds, you are good to go. Industrial engines often were built with low compression to run on tractor gas. At best flatheads are limited to compression ratios of 6:1 to 7.5:1 because of the combustion chamber shape.

     

    If compression is good and oil pressure good, you should be good to go. If compression is low try squirting some oil in the cylinder with an oil can. If compression comes up, it's rings. If not it's a burnt valve or, outside chance, a broken piston. If you do have a bad valve it is easy to fix without taking out the motor. You can grind in the seat, install a new valve just by removing the head and the valve cover.

     

    From the sound of it, it does not matter much how it runs as long as it runs as you will not be using it hard anyway. It should not be hard to get it running and tune it up. Maybe you can find an old retired mechanic who is familiar with these engines to tune it up for you.

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  18. These engines are VERY common, millions were made for Plymouth and Dodge cars, Dodge trucks, industrial and marine engines from 1937 to 1972.

     

    Most parts can be had from your local NAPA or other good auto parts store. Don't bother the shiny new store with the kid with purple hair behind the counter. Look for a dusty old store where the farmers shop with a gray haired or bald headed guy in charge.

     

    A good source of motor parts is Vintage Power Wagons in Iowa. They have parts by the dump truck load at good prices. Power Wagons (military Dodge 4 wheel drive) used the same motor for years. Last I looked $75 a set of 6 NOS pistons, how good do you want it?

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