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Mark66A

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Posts posted by Mark66A

  1. AJ = Yes, the red and black Cabriolet is a restoration. Car came out of a barn near Spokane WA. It had been restored with a light green body in about 1960 and the strips were painted body color at that time. No photos of it prior to that restoration. When Al got it all the original trim strips were there.He Jazzed it up with the wood ones.

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  2. Steve's divided limo with the wood trim on the gas tank cover was in W.O.K.R. info as early as 1968. At that time it was located in Orange, CA.  The Sorenson car (Cookie Man) was first recorded in W.O.K.R. in 1972 as part of the Harrah collection. We don't know of its origin prior to that. Here is some conjecture: If (big "if") these were both California cars sold from the same dealership, this feature could have been added by that dealer. I don't have a breakdown of SK cars sold by city or dealer, just by state (source was a vintage MoTor magazine). I neglected to look at the doorpost on Steve's car to see if it had an oil/lube plate with a dealer name on it.  Those were discussed earlier in this site. Could Darryl and Steve report if they have one? So far we have 3 cars sold from the same dealership.

  3. Another conundrum regarding the H and J 8 cyl cars.  There are half round trim pieces on top of the gas tank cover and on the "bottom" of the rear trunk rack (if present).  The trim on the trunk rack is on display when the trunk rack is in the up position. I think there is a question to be raised on style and finish of these trim pieces. I reviewed the photos I have of a few of these cars. Two have very similar wood trim pieces with a narrow chrome strip in their center. One car - a Raulang bodied divided Limo (Pugh car) and the other the Brunn bodied car pictured in the Cookie Man's posts earlier here. All others I have pictures of have half round metal trim pieces in various finishes. Their finishes differ and are chrome, painted and wood grained.  The Nethercutt's Raulang bodied divided limo has wood grained trim pieces. To the best of my knowledge this car is known to be an original unmolested car. In photos of the "orange" coupe prior to its restoration, the trim pieces also appear to be wood grained.  In very early photos of the restored coupe now in PA the trim pieces are chrome (neither coupe has a trunk rack). Painted trim pieces are either body color or black. In addition to the PA coupe 3 sedans have chrome.  I think the Brunn Victoria has the fewest number of trim pieces due to it having an integral trunk in the body design. I recall those to be painted.  There may not have been a "standard" for this detail at initial assembly - - - but who knows.  Observations or opinions?

  4. I have the history and ownership of our 1912 Stearns-Knight Four. It was given it's first refurbishment in 1950 by Robert Gottlieb when it entered the collector world. The work consisted of new paint and upholstery repair. The color was changed from the original blue with yellow wheels to maroon with red wheels - an original color choice. In 1970 Art Aseltine gave it a new top, but didn't get the side curtains completed. Art also removed the "remodeling" Lynn Kelsey had done during his ownership in the 1940's.  Lynn had added an electric starter and hydraulic brakes as well as cut down wheels in order to get tires.  We are thankful Art fixed that. When we got it we had the first complete engine overhaul done (many prior "repairs" hand been done during the years). We also added back electric start.   SO MY QUESTION.... What do we call this? It is not "original" nor is it "restored"? Also any suggestions on how to preserve lacquer paint that is lifting?  Thanks.

  5. Engine design on the 1913 and 1914 SK-6 is basically the same as the 1912 thru 1915 SK-4 but with a 1/4" longer stroke. The four is 4 1/4 bore by 5 1/2 stroke. The six is 4 1/4 bore by 5 3/4 stroke.  Here is the four.

    IMG_0570.JPG.0b5707ab1ca60ec9098a7ecb503e5d3f.JPG

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  6. Art and Sarah brought the Blue 1913 to the Omaha WOKR meet in 2002. It is a massive car . . and FAST.  Many members enjoyed a ride in it, and Art had a big grin on his face when he accelerated away from the hotel parking lot. It's speed is comparable to the 1910 45-90. The 1914 six cyl cars (SK-6) were basically the same chassis and engine with a different body. One is in the AACA museum and one in private hands.

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  7. Brunn bodied cars - Speculation

    In 1984 in Grosse Pointe Woods. MI David R. Crippen interviewed Gordon Buehrig as part of a series of “interviews with automotive and industrial designers that have influenced the course of the industry.” I obtained a copy of the transcription of the (35 page) interview. In this interview Buehrig discusses the process a body company would go through to build a car after the drawings were completed. He said” we would actually build a sample body framework directly off the body draft. And when that was finished, it would be put together just the way a finished a body would be put together except that we: would not use any glue. We'd put the screws in and screw the whole thing together, and then that was a final checkout for the body framework. After that was done, the body framework parts were all given names and part numbers. The body then was disassembled, and each part was marked with its part number and was shellacked and put in the tool room. That was our tooling…..”  The tooling was used to make enough parts for the entire order. Those parts were stored and eventually assembled as final orders were received. Several pages later Buehrig discusses his time at Duesenberg and noted that when a new body was designed they would order up to ten from the coachwork supplier. The coachwork firm would use their “tooling” to cut out framework parts for the entire order and put them in storage. When a body was needed they would retrieve the wooden parts and assemble the framework for that body. It is inferred that the car company had paid for the framework parts for the complete order.

    In the case of Stearns, their data book and pricing documents described two Brunn bodies. An “All Weather Cabriolet” and an “All Weather Town Brougham” both by Brunn. The two Brunn offerings were listed as being on the 145” J chassis. The “Victoria” body (A.J.’s) is not listed in these documents. Based on the general body building information from Buehrig and on the two Brunn bodies being listed in Stearns advertising documents, I would not hesitate to assume that at least several of those bodies were built. Regarding the Victoria, I have to assume that wood would have been cut for five bodies. The chassis number of A.J.s Victoria is very near the end of our records. That, the precarious financial condition of Stearns in late ’29 and no evidence of another, would support one car…. But nobody knows!

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  8. Here are some ramblings and observations of the F. B. Stearns Company’s last few years of existence.

     

    Ownership of Stearns changed in December 1925 when it was purchased by J.N. Willys. His intent was to add a high-end car to the Willys Overland company; however, he did not integrate the companies. F.B. Stearns had resigned from the Stearns company in 1917 due to serious health issues. Following that event, Stearns was run by “bankers” who focused on generating dividends with little thought to the product offerings. As a result, by the 1925 to ’26 era they were offering a confusing array of models – the B (Big four) 4 cyl followed by the models C, S, and D – all 6-cylinder cars varying slightly in displacement or design. The new management ordered changes. New model F (6 cylinder) and G (8 cylinder) went into development and all the existing models were dropped by the end of ’26. The F was dropped prior to the end of ’28 in favor of adopting the successful Willys Knight Great Six chassis and drive train fitted with series coachwork. These were offered as the M – 125” WB and the N – 136” WB. Their appearance was of a slightly shrunk H or J car.  The G car was essentially the F car fitted with the eight engines which had a few issues. The H and J cars had a completely redesigned heavier chassis and updated coachwork. Production was never large at Stearns. Total production of all models: in ’25 was 1,931, in ’26 - 2,128, in ‘27 - 822, in ’28 - 985 and in ’29 - 2,283. The eight-cylinder production between ’27 through ’29 was: G 640, H (137” WB) 371 and J (145” WB) 509.  J.N. Willys sold all his shares in F.B. Stearns Company in mid-1929 and sailed for Europe to assume his role as an ambassador. Some references indicate he took with him his Stearns All Weather Town Cabriolet by Brunn.   On December 20, 1929, the shareholders voted to close the company – some believe the vote was influenced by the loss of the backing of J.N. Willys as well as a dire financial situation.

     

    You may have wondered how Stearns, under its new management, could develop the new eight engine so quickly.  Having studied the Stearns and Willys companies in minute detail, Art Aseltine told me that he was convinced the Willys Knight Great Six engine and the Stearns Knight Deluxe Eight were the result of design work by Pete Sterling. Sterling had been the chief engineer at Stearns practically from the beginning. He left Stearns sometime after F.B Stearns departure and attempted to start his own company – the Sterling Knight. Due to difficult post WW-I economics, his attempt failed and in 1925 the Sterling Knight company assets were sold at auction. I have seen one reference indicating that J.N. Willys purchased at least some of the Sterling Knight assets. Let’s call that a rumor until I can again locate the reference.  If that is accurate, it puts some meat on the bones of Art’s theory.

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  9. The photo of the 1928 Brunn Town Cabriolet proves that more than one were built. Cookie Man's car has 1929 bumpers and a 1929 Sparton horn. The one in the above photo has a 1928 bumper and a 1928 curved Bosh horn (which used a different mount on the headlight bar).  Interesting that these two Brunn bodies used the same door handles while the Brunn now shivering in northern Rhode Island has different handles.

     

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  10. I am missing the pair of front license plate brackets for the J-8-90 Stearns Knight that I am working on as well as form my own car. I have mailed the only single bracket I have to a foundry to have it duplicated. Their process is to scan the part, print it in wax and then use that to do an investment casting. They then save the scan data for a while in case there is a need for another part. SO, do any other SK H/J owners have a need for these brackets, and do any other cars used this bracket?What cars would they be? Here are a couple photos:

     

    20220922_105416.jpg.fba50a6535d48c6260c0e24f6d60b320.jpg20220922_105432.jpg.90c6f362e6f9420cdd056afeb469a01d.jpg

     

     

  11. 1929 H-8-90 Coupe. Left in a house garage in the Detroit area. House was sold. Several years of unpaid rent. No result in the efforts to find owner. Bought and restored in early 1970's in Plymouth, MI. Sold at ACD Auction in mid to late 80's went to Jonesville, TX. Sold at an estate auction fall of '90. Went to Rural PA at that time and is still there as of 2022. One of three known coupe survivors.

    338289146_1929SKcoupemodelH.jpg.fadd2f0aa5d0414637af968b84958c0b.jpgscan0002.jpg.538cfd1d8b89a80c0f2a65702c78a693.jpgscan0006.jpg.c6699d3a52af5fc183caad7939322c87.jpgscan0004.jpg.665314b558a8865aba800d4a9a196bf2.jpg

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  12. I'm surprised Ed didn't rave about the side mount rear view mirrors on the Nethercutt car 😄.   Note from Stearns Knight Data Book page 42: Body Equipment. Fender Mirrors: Seven Passenger Limousine. Front Tire Mirrors - Seven Passenger Limousine, All Weather Cabriolet, all weather town car - all weather Brougham.

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  13. Nethercutt Collection's 1928 J-8-90 divided Limo with a factory installed radio. Dash was reconfigured to accommodate radio controls, antenna is under roof material. This car was first owned by Lawrence Townsend a Washington DC diplomat. He gave car to his chauffeur who sold it to Clyde Simmons cira 1953.  car bought by Jack Nethercutt about 1960, then sold to Harrahs about 1962, and later bought back by Nethercutt at the Harrah auction in 1985.

    IMG_1082.JPG.59834f775f79d687a71ee89fb6a8458b.JPG          SKIMG_1076.jpg.e0323164cd6944e8d5900d7bb8fd7aba.jpg  

     

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  14. 1929 H-8-90 Cabriolet.  Purchased new by a mining "tycon" from Coeur d'Alene, ID from Adelman Bros in Boise ID. along with a H-8-90 5 Passenger Sedan (now owned by Peter Woyen}. Eventually owned by collector Bob Lane, Colbert, WA .. Sold to early WOKR member Ray Lillengreen who toured it extensively in the PNW 1961 to 1972.  Stored in barn near Reardon, WA by heirs until 2010 then bought and restored by Al Giddings. Now in Canada.  This and the 1927 G-8-90 are the only known Cabriolet Coupes to have survived.

    dsc02645.jpg.eda84200179bfa2e9f60946895335fde.jpg        DSC01185.JPG.fde194cec91eef32b5b15687a91ce357.JPG

     

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  15. 1927 G-8-90 Cabriolet aka Black Beauty. Owned initially by Adelman Bros SK Dealership in Boise ID. Then to Peter Heiser, then to Harrahs, then to R.H. Satchwell Avon England, then Pat Barnes, now in Ohio.  A Stunning Car!

     

    IMG_0702.JPG.888e1d58e37458f703796f586d032239.JPGLetter0001.jpg.59b1bc98bc6be9a82dd287ed98c67a59.jpg

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  16. The pinnacle of poppet valve cars by Stearns - This 45-90 is capable of over 100mph. The car is rated at 90 HP and has a 800 CID engine.  It was bodied as a race car from Barney Oldfield's ownership when new through Lindley Bothwell's ownership (thru about 1960) and raced regularly in southern CA. Harrah's rebodied it as a Toy Tonneau. It now resides in a private collection in California.  In 1948 Lindley Bothwell (then President of HCCA) used this car to lead the very first HCCA Caravan. My 1912 Stearns Knight also participated in that event.

    dsc08031.jpg.55bf0991e73db1b60228ef5ed7882d1e.jpgdsc08020.jpg.b40004641dcf9a1938ea93c962dbd9e0.jpg

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  17. Before and after pictures of the "Orange" H-8-90 8 cyl coupe. It originally came from Culver City,CA. Discovered in Mitchell, SD. Inherited by a nephew in Johnson City, IL. Then sold to a collector in Pleasanton, CA about 1991. Sold again and was restored in Corinth NY.  Sold in 2017 to a  collection in Glen Cove, NY.

    964461414_2-SKinOaklandCAOct2000.jpg.d90c9eea3380f4f4d3c0efc980da7a93.jpgscan0002.jpg.60d3cc338ecfd594346b5d8313e57312.jpg

    1929 Ad1044897146_jsw_19280600_country_life_stearns-knight_sales_corp_ad_americas_most_artistic_expression_of_the_motor_mode.jpg.5680e4e82994283755195651c6bce7f3.jpg

     

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  18. This is for the un-numbered legions of Stearns and Stearns Knight custodians and enthusiasts. The high density scanning of my collection of Stearns literature has been completed. It contains most Sales Brochures, Operation and Care manuals and the Parts List Publications (some illustrated or with engine drawings) for the Stearns automobiles from 1901 through their demise in 1929.  Items from this collection are available in digital format from the W.O.K.R. on-line store located at “store.wokr.org”.  I still have a few pieces of general marketing literature to scan.  Also available from the W.O.K.R. Library is the complete Art Aseltine Collection of Stearns and Stearns Knight advertisements (1903 thru 1929) and a collection of factory photos. These are also all available in digital format as well through the store. Contact the W.O.K.R. Librarian for information on the Art Aseltine Collection. The items in these collections are not yet listed in the on-line inventory but can be purchased by contacting the store or librarian. The store and library are part time volunteer run services provided by the W.O.K.R. club. 

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  19. Been putting an old race car back together. It's a '28 Stearns Knight H Chassis cut down to 110" WB. No drive train when I got it. Got a tip in 2006 about a Stearns Knight motor that came off a saw mill in Canada. Was able to buy it. Timing chain tightener seized, valve timing messed up, water pump seized, dual point distributor a mess. Fast forward to this weekend... it runs!

    Sorry can't figure out how to post a mp4 video taken on my android phone.

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  20. More detail info I thought of after I sent the last message.  Regarding the three G cars...One is a "to die for" cabriolet black with red interior and is in Ohio. One is a RHD sedan located in Australia. It sold at auction a few years ago and I have lost track of it. Nice car.  The third car is a sedan that was undergoing restoration.  Owner lost interest and it was sold uncompleted at an auction a few years ago in the Virginia area. The chassis was done. I sent him a replacement crankcase, but I don't think he finished the motor.  If you want to track it down, I have the previous owner info. 

    Interesting tidbit on H engines..... Initially the H (and G) engines used copper oil lines to deliver pressurized oil to the main bearings.  An improvement was made and the cranks were drilled - running the oil into the rear main and through the crankshaft. Later production cars went back to the un-drilled cranks with copper lines delivering the oil. I don't know why. Art speculated there may have been a weakness discovered in the drilled cranks... but nobody knows. Also the late S/N cars used a slightly different oil pan to accommodate an oil level sensing device. The green sedan in the AACA museum has that feature as well as the chariot Ed is working on. There may be a few more but I have not chased after that info.

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  21. I count 23 cars existing. They include 3 G series 1927 to early 1928 using the F six cyl chassis. H and J series were all 1928 &1929 designed with a new chassis. 

    9 H series (137" WB). They include 3 Coupes, 3 five pass sedans, 1 Cabriolet, 1 five Pass Coupe -burned up in a fire but hulk remains, and 1 Speedster cut down to a race car in 1930s.

    11 J Series (135" WB). They include 1 Brunn Town Cabriolet, 1 Brunn Convertible Victoria, 2 Informal (divided) limousines, 1 seven Pass Touring (built to original dimensions from a salvaged sedan, 6 seven Pass sedans (Including 1 street rod).

    I know of 2 H spare engines, and parts for perhaps 2 more. Likely 3 H transmissions - I'll have to count them sometime. All H&J series cars engines were designated as H engines and had very early AC fuel pumps. The G engines used a Vacuum tank. There were three versions of sleeves and two versions of eccentric shafts (cams to the uninitiated}.  The very latest cars had the option of a 2bbl updraft tillotson carb as well as thermostatically controlled louvers in front of the radiator. Stearns was run by engineers - so there were uncounted running changes - usually minor -that were done to improve the product. Not unusual to see changes occuring every 10 to 20 serial numbers.

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