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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan: I'm not sure if you call it the "boost controller" but it's something like that. It's stock and all. It's the black metal cylinder thing with a couple vacuum lines. When revved, a little rod coming out of it is moved upward which controls the bypass gate in the S/C. </div></div> Oh ok, you are talking about the supercharger bypass actuator. What happened to yours? Did it break? The actuator does not normally control boost level. It's function is to open the bypass valve at low load levels to reduce stress on the supercharger and increase gas mileage. I know some people on the net are removing or modifying these in order to supposidly make the boost come on quicker, but the problem with doing that is you will put more stress on the SC when you don't need it which will cause heat to build up among other things. I would suggest you leave the boost control actuator alone -- and hooked up as it was stock. You don't need the electrical boost solenoid hooked up to it because that was only used by the computer to prevent boost in reverse gear and reduce boost when the car was nearing the top speed limiter. Now if you desire lower than factory boost levels, one could hook up a boost controller like one I described earlier but this is really not the right way to keep the boost down. The right way to lower boost would be by installing a larger SC pulley. -ryan

I agree with everything 2seater said. I must get about 20 emails a week specifically asking about putting a turbo or supercharger on a naturally asperated engine. Because I run a business, I can't simply go around telling people they can get away with doing that without concequences. Therefore, my email responses to such questions usually turn out to be a couple of pages long explaining that it can be done, but there are drawbacks to durability and reliability. Like 2seater said, he doesn't beat on his car much and someone like him would probably never suffer an engine failure due to the boost. But the problem is there are a lot of people out there that like to beat the living snot out of their cars on a daily basis so, when giving advice, those people's habits have to be taken into account. Getting back to Phil's problem; I have never tried running any sort of boost controllers on these engines so I can't really comment on it -- other than to say I understand how the boost control system works on these engines and I can see how a boost controller would work properly if the design was compatible and it was hooked up right. Most manual boost controllers consist of nothing more than some parts from a hardware store -- a couple of hose nipples, pipe T, spring, ball bearing, and bolt. That's pretty much it. There are electronic ones out there that work off of "active feedback" which use a MAP sensor to monitor actual boost, but these are very expensive from what I have seen. -ryan

I agree with Greg's opinion here. You can't always trust what you are told on a forum on the web. By no means is this a bash against any specific person nor the Bonneville forum, but most of these people don't have the proper training and education to back up their "advice". With that being said; here is the deal with the oil cooler. Yes, the older stock SC engines came with them. But have that guy explain to you why the newer Series II engines didn't have them and they put out more power??? I will tell you why. Oil technology has come a long way since 1992-95. Yes, conventional dino motor oil will break down quickly in high stress and heat environments, and if you were running a conventional motor oil from the 92-95 era, I would recommend using an oil cooler as well. But running Mobil 1, you don't need a cooler. The Corvette used to come from the factory with an oil cooler and when they switched to using Mobil 1 in the LT1 engines, GM published a notice explaining that the cooler was no longer needed because the full synthetic oil doesn't break down as quickly in high stress and heat environments. But you don't even have to go that far... Your oil pressure gauge is the best indicator of your oil's condition. Now as far as the trans cooler is concerned... Yes, the stock radiator has "restrictors" in it where the lines hook up. However, this factory cooler was designed to work with the trans you are running so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Not all of the fluid that goes thru the pump in the trans goes thru the cooler in the radiator; it's more complicated than that in how the cooling system works in the auto trans. What I can tell you is you shouldn't run just an external cooler. The reason why is because of two reasons. The first is, without a trans fluid temp gauge, you have no idea how hot your trans fluid is getting. If your external (only) cooler is not big enough, you could easily overheat the trans. The factory cooler was designed to cool the stock transmission using the stock engine in the hottest possible environment. The addition of an external cooler will help your trans fluid temps run cooler than stock by supplimenting the stock auto trans fluid cooling system. The second reason why you should not just replace the stock radiator cooler with an external cooler is because the auto trans fluid cooling system relies on the radiator cooling system to warm up the trans fluid during colder ambient temperature conditions. It is possible to overcool transmission fluid which will result in the trans fluid not running at the proper operating temperature for the best performance. Fluids like your engine oil and transmission fluid need to be working at a certain temperature in order to lubricate and clean internal components properly. Too cold of fluid temps will not allow these fluids to work as-designed. If it puts your mind at ease, Philip, I am not running an oil cooler on my 3800 Series II Turbocharged engine. But I do run Mobil 1. I know for a fact my engine sees a lot more stress than yours does plus my turbo heats up the oil more than what your car sees. I am also running the auto trans fluid cooling circuit thru my stock Fiero radiator then then thru an external cooler before it returns to the 4T60-E trans. I have been running my car this way for over three years and 20,000 miles now with no problems.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that my boost controller is faulty. I'm asking the Bonneville guys about it, but when disconnected, I get full boost <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. With it connected normally, there's not really anything. I'm gonna check it out and see if it can be cleaned or something, but its old anyway and replacement would probably be best. </div></div> Sounds like your boost controller is the device giving you fits. I don't know what you are using so I don't know how it works so I can't offer much help.

He Phil, just wondering how the car is running and if you did that cold air induction upgrade yet?? -ryan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you Ryan. I meant to move the on-screen climate/comfort outdoor temperature sensor, cuz it reads high from the engine's heat </div></div> Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about the IAT sensor.

I wouldn't mess with a external trans filter. It isn't going to be of much benefit for your application. Also, you will want to run BOTH the trans cooler in the radiator AND the external cooler. Yes, running only the external cooler would make fluid flow more but the external cooler may under or over cool the transmission. Also, you want to have the hot fluid coming from the trans to pass thru the radiator FIRST because you have to remember there is hot coolant in the radiator that can actually heat up the trans fluid if you had it hooked up the other way around. I would leave the IAT sensor in the air induction stream. Yes, you can relocate it to a cooler location but then the computer won't have an accurate reading of how hot the air is going into the engine. Besides, leaving it in the induction system will tell you how much of an improvement you will make once you relocate your air filter. -ryan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the scanner record the 0-60 times or approx. 1/4 miles? I have had to delay starting a run to be sure the scanner connected to the ECM before matting the pedal. Only records 15 frames so generally only got about 13 frames @ one per second to get a good run recorded. Indications are between 5 and 6 seconds 0-60 and 90-95 mph after about thirteen seconds with my turbo installation. </div></div> I was using an OTC Monitor 4000 Enhanced but I don't know the specific frame/update rate when hooked up to the Reatta. It is somewhat slower than what I am used to because the scan tool was sharing the feed with the DIC/CRT which slowed it down a bit. Sorry no idea on 0-60mph numbers. But I can tell you the car felt pretty good to me at least.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think cool air is probably more important at the moment. Even just moving the filter from the present location to closer to the normal inlet area from the front below the relay box would help. Or possibly a surround for the filter in the present location with a hose feeding it from the stock forward area. In a pinch you can use the stock inlet hose, connected normally as marked, and a short piece of 3" pvc pipe to connect the filter to the hose. They will stretch to fit over the 3.5" o.d. of the pipe. The present location picks up radiant heat from the exhaust below and mostly warm air from the radiator. Pressurizing the air to around 7-8 psi will raise the outlet air from 70*F to around 200*F, cooler to start with will help a lot. </div></div> Agree 1000%. Philip, even if you can't afford a K&N filter at the moment I would at least get your filter as far away from the exhaust and radiator heat as possible.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will commandeer some 3'' pipe from the van and see what I can do. On my list of things to do soon. About the tranny cooler...I haven't really been under there to investigate the lines, but how would I go about connecting one? Would it be before the cooler in the radiator or after? Should an auxiliary filter be used too? I'll drop the pan/filter and do a refill when I do it too. How big of one? Seems they're rated in max-towing weights How about this bad boy? Sorry, haven't e...zz one, etc...? </div></div> You don't necc need that style of cooler. There are other, cheaper designs out there that work just fine and can be mounted in front of the radiator / ac condensor. (here is an example of what I use:) Basically what you will need to do is determine which way the fluid flows thru the trans cooler in the radiator. What you will need to do is unhook both trans cooler lines from the radiator -- Do this with the engine OFF. Some fluid will come out so have a drip pan ready. Once the lines are off, hook some hose to both lines and drop the other ends of both hoses into your drip pan. Have an assistant start the engine and shut it off immediately once you see fluid spray out of one of the hoses. NOTE WHICH LINE THE FLUID SPRAYS OUT OF. This is the line you are going to hook back up to the radiator as it was from the factory. The purpose of doing this is because we want the fluid to come from the trans and flow thru the radiator cooler first, then thru the external cooler, then back to the trans. If we had it go thru the ext cooler then the radiator, the coolant in the radiator could actually heat the fluid back up a little. Now, what you need to do is obtain a fitting that screws into the radiator that has a nipple or length of line coming from it (to clamp hose to); I believe that would be 5/16" line w/ double flare for your Reatta. Then, using approved trans cooler hose, attach one port of the external trans cooler to the line coming from the radiator and the other port of the ext cooler to the line going back to the trans. Make sure you double check your hose clamps and make sure they are tight -- but not too tight (you don't want the clamp cutting into the hose). You will also want to check your clamps and hoses for leaks for the next few weeks to make sure they don't loosen up on you due to temp changes. You can get external trans coolers for about $30-$80 depending on size from most auto parts stores. Bigger coolers work better but any cooler would be better than nothing. Autozone and places equiv also carry approved trans oil cooler hose and clamps. I usually find nice sized used trans coolers at the junkyards on Ford Rangers and Aerostars as well as some Chrysler products. Every once in a while you will find one on a GM. Anyway, if you do get a used one make sure you flush it out really good with carb cleaner then blow it out with compressed air before you install it. The trans cooler can be attached to the A/C condensor or core support structure using plastic wire ties. Or you can buy the fancy trans cooler mounting hardware.

For some reason I am not getting notified of updates to this thread... Anyway, it was great to meet Philip and finally see his project. I must say he hasn't done to bad with it -- looks a lot better than the first stuff I messed with years ago. Like Philip said, we found a bad plug wire which was causing most of the problems. We also discovered that the engine wanted more WOT timing than what I had originally given it. We also bumped up the idle TPS setting to I think about 0.42 volts because the 0.3x it was set at caused a high idle after I reset the computer. I also gave him a little more fuel at WOT to satisfy what the engine wanted. I must say that the rescaled MAF tables worked out great. The LV8 doesn't max out at 255 unless we were near max RPMs just before the shifts at WOT. At lower RPM's in WOT the LV8 was hovering around 240. This tells me that we are just getting towards max airflow reading at the upper RPMs. Unfortuneately my scan tool maxxes out airflow reading at 99.9 gm/sec so I couldn't keep an eye on that. Anyway, Philip has a few other things he is going to do like looking into extending his induction system so it isn't sucking hot air close to that exhaust crossover pipe. I did notice on one test drive the ECM was seeing IAT temps close to 140 deg F. There is some more power there if he upgrades the air filter to a K&N unit and can get it fed with some colder air. We also discussed the possibility of adding an external trans cooler to complement the factory unit that is in the radiator to keep the trans temps down. Putting a lot more power thru this trans not only increases the load on the trans itself but also makes the torque converter stall higher than it would with a stock C motor. I was also discussing with Philip something I had found out about the plug wires. Appearantly factory equipped and GM replacement wires for the Supercharged engines have lower resistance than what you would find on naturally asperated engines. At least this is the case with Series II engines. I don't know that much about series 1 stuff because those are hard to find with low miles and original plug wires on them. Anyway, I told Philip next time he gets some plug wires it might not be a bad idea to shop around for some performance ones possibly some from the GM parts department (not sure if Series 1 SC wires are still available). The increase cylinder pressure from the boost puts a strain on all secondary ignition components. I told Philip that his Type I ignition system (Magnavox style) should be fine for this engine because I know a lot of GN / Turbo Buick guys who still run stock units on 10sec and faster cars...Although the Type II (Delco) setups are becoming more popular and are proving to be more durable. Anyway, I am happy we get Philip's project squared away and running right for him. Now hopefully he remembers to keep his foot out of it while he is around his local law enforcement because that shiney red Reatta does attract attention when you hear that supercharger wind up! PS: Padgett, I did get that CD you sent me -- Thanks! I haven't had a chance to look at it though because I have been so busy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Ryan. I read at the Bonneville club of the vacuum controller being disconnected and pulling like 17 psi . Nothing I'd ever do though. </div></div> I don't know what those guys over on the bonneville forums are doing or using but the bypass actuator DOES NOT regulate boost on these engines. This type of supercharger is a fixed displacement or linear output supercharger which means it will only put out a fixed amount of airflow/boost per RPM. The only way you are going to get more boost is by installing a smaller SC pulley, but even then the boost level should stay pretty consistant throughout the RPM range. Like I said before, all that bypass actuator does is unload the SC when the engine doesn't need it. It also has a provision to open the actuator to prevent boost during reverse, top speed limit, and decel (via the boost control solenoid). That's it. At least from the factory standpoint. I suppose someone could hack the PCM to make it control the boost solenoid in such a way to actually control boost level. But the only thing that can do is reduce boost from what you normally have; it can't increase it. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've still got that myterious tranny leak. When off, or idling, and even in drive on stands, it doesn't drip. It's leaking a little bit but not a significant amount. It is burning though and getting on the bottom of the passenger side. Some even makes it back to the cat and burns. My dad and I looked under it and couldn't figure out where it's leaking. </div></div> The only thing in the rear of the trans is the dipstick tube seal and pan gasket. On the right side all that is there is the axle seal, pan gasket, and governor/VSS sensor housing seals.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, with Greg's car? I read of that being mentioned. If I'm right, the current boost control uses just vacuum. How does the solenoid thing work in? </div></div> You don't really need the boost control solenoid on these engines. All it does is disable boost in reverse and when you are nearing the preset top speed limiter as well as on heavy decel. Basically it serves no practical function for us HP guys. Now the vacuum operated bypass actuator is something you do need to leave hooked up. This device opens the bypass valve during low-load conditions to relieve drag/stress on the SC. It automatically closes when you open the throttle enough to warrant a power increase. F14crazy- you have mail. -ryan

Yes, get some knock counts and spark retard degrees if available. Don't forget some WOT O2 readings as well. As far as the idle is concerned, I am sitting here looking at the programming software I am using and I don't see anything defined that governs IAC position. What are the lowest IAC position counts you are seeing on the data stream? What is the desired idle? -ryan

Yes, I would like to know some INT and BLM counts, as well as O2 voltage at WOT (if you are opening the throttle that far). As far as the TCC is concerned, I didn't touch it yet so if changes need to be made there we can do that on the next chip. -ryan

Glad to hear you got it running. As far as the high idle is concerned, there is a "learning" proceedure the ECM goes thru at about 40mph or so where it bottoms out the IAC which resets the counts in the ECM. However, even if this wasn't performed you still shouldn't have an issue with this high of an idle. 2000 still sounds way too high. What are the IAC counts doing? Desired idle? ECM going into closed loop ok? O2 sensor voltage moving around like it should? TPS voltage at idle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan: does that mean I could try running the engine with the LN3 balancer and sensor?</div></div> YES. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Kind of did a compression test when I applied pressured to each cylinder. At least was able to know that pistons didn't have holes blown in them and that valves were sealing.</div></div> That was a leakdown test. A compression test will give us a better idea if the valve timing events are close to being correct. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't think the timing chain came off since turning the balancer opened and closed the valves in my head gasket test. </div></div> The valves will still open and close even if the timing chain jumped. However, IF the timing chain jumped, then the valves will be opening and closing at the wrong times. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is it possible that the crank and cam got out of sync? Don't think this is possible... </div></div> Yes, if the timing chain jumped time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a word, "No" The Blower if not turning will completely block intake airflow. </div></div> Not true. I have started many 3800 Series II SC engines that had the SC belt removed. The SC will turn by itself (because of airflow) and the engine will start and run normally (with less power of course) without the SC belt present. I would recommend a very small shot of starting fluid to see if it will run off of that. BUT you need to be VERY CAREFUL with this stuff. A little bit should do the trick. If not, the problem is probably not fuel related. Of course a check of the basics will tell you what is and what is not working: -Spark (check by pulling all plug wires from coil pack and cranking) -Firing order / plug wire routing -Make sure spark plugs are not fouled / wet -Fuel Pressure -Fuel injector pulse (pull the fuel rail up out of the engine but leave it connected and crank the engine over and see if the ECM is commanding fuel injector firing) -Compression test If everything tests good (fuel, spark), then there is a possibility your timing chain might have jumped on you. -ryan

What I would do is fill this engine up with some conventional oil to start out and make sure everything is working great / no leaks. After you are satisfied nothing is wrong, I would change the oil and filter again. No reason to waste expensive Mobil 1 to find out you still have a problem. Besides, I always like to "flush" the engine after it has been open (intake manifold removed). -ryan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Didn't think about it much, but what's the best way to clean out the bolt holes? </div></div> Thread chaser. Kinda like a thread tap but a little different. Make sure you get out a vacuum cleaner and prevent any debris from falling in the engine while you are doing this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah yes. Have taken that precaution. Will let it sit at least overnight, just to be sure. Would not be nice for it to seal up my oil passages. The page that Ryan emailed me for the manifold says to use thread lock on the intake manifold bolts...that necessary? When putting the manifold together, I propose to start all the bolts and turn them with a socket and extension (no driver) until they stop, and then torque them to the 88 in/lbs in sequence according to the FSM. That sound good? Holes and bolts will be near-sterile </div></div> I think the threadlock and low torquing of the bolts is necessary because the intake gaskets are constructed of plastic (IIRC). These gaskets are designed to seal great with low torque applications but will crack if overtightened. The blue loctite you are supposed to use on the intake bolts serves 2 purposes: 1) provide a positive seal against oil seepage and 2) lock the bolts in place so they don't loosen, due to the low-torque nature of the specs. GM had huge problems on later engines using the plastic intake gaskets because it was so easy to overtighten them. I can't count high enough the number of engines I have seen in the core pile at the junkyard that failed because of these dumb plastic intake gaskets that were not installed/torqued properly. Just so we are clear: -Clean the threads in the heads and on the bolts (it is OK to reuse the lower intake bolts) -Use blue loctite on the lower intake bolts -Tighten to factory specs and sequence -If you use a bead of RTV to seal up the end seals, make sure you let it set up overnight before starting the engine. Also, do NOT let it set up for more than about 30min (depends on type of RTV) before you torque down the intake. The reason why is because I had a friend let his fast-curing RTV set up for 1 hour on his Vortec 4.3 V6 before tightening down the intake and it was so hard at that point it wouldn't let the intake seal properly -- once he started the engine, coolant sprayed everywhere! Also, MAKE SURE anywhere you use RTV the sealing surfaces are completely clean and free of oil or solvents! -ryan

Philip, that is good news if you didn't get any bubbles up thru the cooling system during the leakdown tests. The little amount of air you heard escaping was probably that which was working its way past the piston ring end gaps. Of course there is still a very small possibility that you might have a cracked cylinder. It wasn't clear exactly how you did your tests but if you did them with the piston at bottom dead center, that should check the whole cylinder bore for leaks. At this point, like another person said earlier, it is far more likely you have a gasket or intake manifold failure that is letting coolant into the oil and induction stream. I would remove the lower intake and inspect all sealing surfaces carefully. DO NOT try to reuse the intake gaskets; it's not worth the risk. Also, if you use RTV on the end seals, apply the RTV, install the lower intake, start the bolts but do not tighten them down for about 30-60min. After that time has passed, torque the intake to specs. You don't want the RTV to fully cure before tightening down the intake because the RTV could prevent the proper gasket crush to take place. Also, allow the RTV to cure overnight before starting the engine. Let us know what you find once you get the intake off. -ryan

Philip, don't let this temporary setback get you down. Chalk it up to a learning experience instead. If you go ahead with a leakdown test, make sure your radiator cap is on and you have some coolant or water in the overflow tank. If you have a blown head gasket, air bubbles will come up in the overflow.

Lets take a step back here. I think there is a possibility you might have popped a head gasket and the pressure from the cylinders is getting into the cooling system and blowing out your little o-ring seals under the SC. The best way to check for a blown head gasket is to do a cylinder leakdown, or put compressed air into the cylinder. (auto parts and tool stores sell a hose that screws into the spark plug hole and allows you to hook up your air compressor hose to it). You will need to turn the engine over so each cylinder you test is a Bottom Dead Center after the power stroke. A blown head gasket may also show up on a compression test as well. You might also want to check your oil and make sure the level has not increased and it hasn't turned into chocolate milk. I would perform this check before worrying about your SC gasket sealing issues. -ryan

I do know for a fact that ALL 3800 Series 2 engines had a "windage tray" as part of the oil pan gasket. IIRC, the Series 1 engines had it built into the pan itself.