carbking

Did you provide a "map" of the hidden filter to the owner, so when he/she sells the car the new owner will not have the same headache? Jon.

Since you live in San Diego, you might get away with it, since you do have the Stromberg and not the Marvel. Once you find (fabricate) the parts for the choke, adjust the choke so THE BUTTERFLY IS ALWAYS VERTICAL (WIDE OPEN). Don't even attempt to make it work. Like trying to teach a pig to sing. It cannot be done, and it annoys the pig! When you go for a cruise, start the engine, and hold at a medium fast idle until the engine warms. Expect idle issues if the ambient is above 85 degrees F. Good luck. Jon.

The AAVB267 is a Stromberg carb of later design. It may/may NOT function on your Buick (if it has not been modified, it will not). Below is a blog I did in a different thread on this forum years ago about the 1937 and 1938 Buick experimental (but production) carburetors: EDIT: I thought this was in the blog, but it is not. There is a Buick bulletin available which advocates absolute butchery to the Delco choke trying to make it function. And no, it still didn't work, which is why most 1937 and 1938 Buicks have the wrong carb. Most owners really wanted to drive their Buick! Jon. 1937~1938 Buick carburetors. Buick used two different vendors in these years: (A) Marvel (at this stage a.k.a. Marvel/Schebler) and ( Stromberg. The Marvel downdraft was the last gasp for a company trying to hold on to its customer base. Marvel kept Buick through 1938, and Graham through 1939. The Marvel downdraft carburetors still retained the cork float; although every other automobile carburetor manufacturer had discontinued the use of cork floats several years earlier. To my knowledge, no one has ever produce a brass float for the downdraft Marvel (although Standard Hygrade did produce brass floats to replace the cork in some of the earlier Buick updraft Marvels). We cut the modern closed cellular poly-nitraphyll material to replace the cork in the kits we make. The Stromberg carburetor used was what today would be called a "beta test". The Stromberg was the first "production" versions of the AA series, which eventually became excellent carburetors. Unfortunately, the 1937 and 1938 versions weren't that good; and Buick's insistance that Stromberg use the Delco automatic choke just made them that much worse. The Delco choke (also used by the 1937 and 1938 Marvel) NEVER worked well. Since the Strombergs were really experimental (I couldn't even give that much credence to the Marvel), the throttle linkage was assembled on the opposite side of the shaft from other carburetors, to prevent owners from easily switching out either the Marvel or the Stromberg. Most of the circuitry in the Stromberg was completely redesigned from 1937 to 1938. The carb WOULD have been MUCH improved, but Buick still insisted on using the Delco choke. By 1939 Buick finally gave up on Marvel AND the aforementioned Delco choke. Carter was added as the second carburetor vendor. Both the 1939 Carter and 1939 Stromberg utilized the hot air choke (the design Stromberg wanted to use in 1937). At Buick's request, both Carter and Stromberg offered service replacement units to replace the troublesome 1937 and 1938 Marvels and Strombergs. These service replacements (offered through the Buick dealerships) were nothing more than the 1939 production carburetors with a special arm grafted onto the throttle to change the direction of throttle travel. Think of a child's seesaw in action. When one kid goes up, the other goes down. If one uses this principal, and uses the throttle shaft as the fulcrum, machining an arm extension to attach to the throttle arm will allow these (and other) carburetors to replace the experimental 1937 and 1938. Both the Carter and Stromberg replacement also included a heat stove to supply heat to the hot air choke. (Opinion) on a scale of 1 (awful) to 10 (wonderful) 1937~1938 Marvel - 2 1937 Stromberg - 5 1938 Stromberg - 6 (would be an 8 with a decent choke) 1939 Carter WD-0 - 8 1939 Stromberg - 9 1941 Carter WCD - 9 Others will have differing opinions.

A couple of possibilities: (1) When ignition coil rotates to certain RPM, primary wire is pulled and there is an "open circuit". (2) There are a couple of fuel valve designs for the carburetor that are still floating around that might give this symptom. As I got in trouble with the moderator for mentioning a specific company once before, you will have to call if you want more information. 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.

The choke shafts used on the 1937 and 1938 Buicks were not used on any other year or any other vehicle. I don't remember if the AA-1, AAV-1, AA-2, and AAV-2 all used the same shaft on not. If you wish, give me a call at 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues) and I can pull the prints to see about interchange. Any good machine shop could make the butterfly shaft. The choke cable simply pushes into the end of the shaft as is does the vertical shaft in the choke housing. Vertical rotation on the vertical shaft from the choke housing is transformed into horizontal rotation of the choke butterfly shaft via the flex cable. But good luck on making the choke work once you have it back to original. EDIT - Monday morning: pulled the prints, all 4 of the carbs listed above have the same choke butterfly shaft. These were never used on other Strombergs, as no other manufacturer attempted to use the Delco choke. Buick finally gave up on the Delco choke after the 1938 model, as it was impossible to make them function correctly (other than maybe Miami, San Diego, or Honolulu if you only attempted to drive in the heat of the day!). There were none of these choke shafts left in the original remaining Stromberg inventory when we acquired the inventory. Jon.

Actually, no. Both the 715s and 627s are type WE; while the 633s, 606s, and 777s are type BBR-1. Jon.

Listed in order of scarcity: The passenger Champion six used a Carter 715s. The passenger Commander six used a Carter 627s. The 2R5 truck six used a Carter 633s. The 2R16 truck six used a Carter 606s. The 2R6 truck six used a Carter 777s. Of the above, the 715s is relatively common (nothing on a Studebaker is "common") to the 777s which is quite scarce. Jon.

MOST avgas has some lead content. The Clean Air Act (1990 supplement) BANNED the use of leaded gasoline in the USA except for aircraft; therefore road tax is not the only issue with using avgas for highway use in the USA. (I haven't bothered to research leaded use in other countries). Avgas will run in older engines, but as the octane is higher than necessary, may get less fuel economy and power than fuels with lower octane. Most older engines have insufficent timing advance/compression to completely burn the higher octane. Higher performance "muscle car" engines from the 1960's (Ram Air GTO's, dual quad hemi's, etc.) will tolerate the octane much better than 1930's engines. Interesting that the FAA and EPA totally disagree on the effects of ethanol on an internal combustion engine. Perhaps this has to do with the consequences to the inhabitants of the vehicle should a catastrophic engine failure occur. Some older tractors WERE calibrated to run "distillate" or kerosene. The ones we used when I was significantly younger had a small tank for gasoline to start the tractor, and normal tanks for distillate to run AFTER the engine was up to normal operating temperature. The carburetors for distillate engines are significantly different in calibration than those for gasoline. Jon.

An article that might explain about the choke: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Automaticchokes.htm And, if you wish to make your own heat stove: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Heatstovefabrication.htm Jon.

Buick did NOT use the Carter as original equipment in 1937! Buick finally ended their relationship with Marvel in 1939, and added Carter as their second carburetor vendor. As even the Stromberg carb used in 1937-1938 was not the best (because of Buick's insistance on the use of the captive Delco choke); both Stromberg and Carter were asked by Buick to offer "service replacement" carburetors (with hot air choke) for the 1937 and 1938 Buicks. Your Carter WD-0 (it is a zero, not an ooh) may be one of these. Jon.

Suggestion - BEFORE you pull the carb (you may still need to do so, but maybe not). First, go back and reread Willie's post 32 about idle speed. Now, you have posted that you have to hold the throttle slightly to keep it running. This will allow the the fast idle cam to advance prematurely, and prevent a normal idle until the engine is completely warm. So the suggestion, and you will probably need a helper: start the engine, and keep it running at a fast idle for at least 8 ~ 10 minutes using the throttle. This should warm the engine to normal operating temperature. AND, IF FUNCTIONING NORMALLY, THE AUTO CHOKE SHOULD HAVE THE CHOKE BUTTERFLY IN THE WIDE OPEN (VERTICAL) POSITION. You may need the helper to check this. If the choke butterfly is not vertical, find out why, and fix it. If it is vertical, then try to get the lower idle suggested by Willie, and check the timing. And if this doesn't work, there is still time to pull the carb. Just for the record, the older updraft carburetors were much more reliable than the downdraft carburetors. Why ? Because the updraft carburetors were normally so difficult to get to that the real problem was fixed before the carburetor was removed! Good luck. Jon.

Possible choke adjustment??? Jon.

Kent-Moore made dozens (possibly hundreds) of different sets of these carburetor adjusting tools. Each set like the one pictured by the OP would have the necessary adjusting tools for one carburetor. Prior to the K-M individual tool chains, the carburetor manufacturers (Carter, Holley, Rochester, Stromberg, Zenith, etc.) produced carburetor tool kits, which contained the common tools for working on all of their common carburetors. Both Master kits (covering everything) and dealer kits (covering a single brand) were available. Jon.

If you put in fresh gas, make sure you also put in a new fuel filter. If there is any sediment in the tank, and most assuredly there is, the fresh gas will cut it loose, and guess where it will go??? Maybe buy two or three filters!!! Jon.

It certainly could be old gas, but the experience I have had with old gas is VERY hard to start. I have been able to burn out old gas by starting on starting fluid, and running at a fast idle until up to operating temperature before attempting to actually drive. But if you can drain the tank, it would be good insurance. You mentioned pertronix. Did you install an alternator at the same time? ALL electronics really like a stable voltage, more so than is possible with a generator. Even though the engine is rebuilt, I would suggest a compression test. Like Willie said, possibly one or more sticking valves from sitting. I would also check the automatic choke on the carburetor to make certain it is functioning normally. Jon.

The spring on the left is the one you should be using: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Marvel_springs_HR.jpg Popping through the carb could also be a sticky intake valve, or valve timing. Jon.

Updraft carburetors are MUCH more reliable than downdraft carburetors :confused: The reason being that most updraft carburetors are so difficult to get to that the real problem is fixed before the carburetor is touched! Seriously, while the carb might be an issue; lots of other items to check first: (1) Have a helper push the footfeed to the floor while you observe to see if the carb goes to wide open throttle (2) If the vehicle has been sitting a long time, a new fuel filter (even if you just changed it) (3) The whole ignition system (4) Will the engine rev to higher RPM's in the lower gears? If so, NOT the carburetor. (5) Fuel tank vent clogged. (6) Auto choke not opening. You will find it. EDIT: It's early in the morning. The fact that it is a 1937 just sunk in. In 1937 Buick used Strombergs and the marvelous Marvel carburetors. If yours is a Marvel, it just might be the problem. Jon

As far as gaskets for this unit are concerned, you probably will have to make your own. It was sold as a "throw-away", with no service parts available. We don't make a kit for it, and if there are any other manufacturers today making parts for it, I am unaware of them. Jon.

It looks like a Rayfield. If so, will have an oval ident in the end of the bowl, where the "original manufacturer" name was placed using a water decal. Have seen decals of Wizard, Johnson, and Marvel Schebler. It was sold mail order to those customers too frugal to purchase a rebuilding kit for the original carb. Jon.

This thread brings back memories of one of my more stupid moments. I have always liked the styling of the 1957 and 1959 Fords. As for the 1958, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and mine were obviously closed In 1972, was living in swampeast Missouri, and a neighbor had a red/white 1958 Ford fliptop. He had quite a bit of work done, including rebuilding replacing all of the top motors. Car was a nice driver. Memory isn't clear, but I believe it had a 292 (maybe 312) with 3 on the tree. He was suddenly transferred to the state of California, and could not take the car with him. Offered it to me for $75. I refused. The day he left, he came over to the house and told me the junkyard would pay $45. and I could have it for that. Again, I refused. Just didn't like the styling of the 1958. Guess I didn't like to pay capital gains tax either Jon.

Question 1: smaller jets are available Question 2: originally, the linkage was progressive Other information: Buick started experimenting with compound carburetion as early as 1935 (Stromberg built some experimental single barrel carbs for Buick, it this time they were experimenting with two single-barrel carbs). The compound carburetion, as offered in production (two 2-barrel carbs, either Stromberg or Carter) never did perform to Buick's expectations. Most were removed in the first couple of years, and in fact Buick discontinued the production after the 1942 models. Fast forward to today. We have seen many of these setups, and ever single one we have seen have had the following issues: (1) Heat valves in the exhaust manifold stuck in the closed position, which caused excessive heat to crack the intake manifold creating a vacuum leak (2) The auxiliary air valve under the rear carb warped in the closed position, so the rear carb would not open. For customers with showcars, we have (in the past) freed the heat valves, fabricated new heat springs, machined new auxiliary air valves, and had the intake manifolds welded (not me, my welding looks like the underside of the desk I used in third grade ) to fix. And the units still didn't perform as well as a single carb. For customers with "drivers", we suggested: (1) Removing the heat valves from the exhaust (2) Removing the auxiliary air valve (3) Using two exact matching carburetors from different engines (eg., two of the carbs from the small Buick engine from the late 1940's work great on the large engine). (4) Rework the linkage so it is solid rather than progressive. This allows BOTH carburetors to operate all of the time. All of our customers loved the results with the modified system. Jon.

Tim - thanks for the reference. Al - we still offer kits (we also offer advice). The CG should have the two-barrel DD-3 (one of the "2"'s is hidden under the vent). Before I offer the advice, please remember that we no longer restore carbs, so NOT "grinding my own ax". This carburetor requires several special tools just to disassemble the carb and not break it. So the advice is: unless you are an experienced carburetor technician, AND have access to a good machine shop (lathes and milling machines), this carb is best left to a professional. And pick the professional carefully. Very few will have done one of these, and can easily turn an expensive restoration into a very expensive restoration. Don't be afraid to ask questions of the professional. Maybe the gentleman whose username on this forum is edinmass will see this thread. He would be a good candidate to do the work. If you wish, call, and we can discuss it further. Jon.

I completely understand wishing to keep it original. I would not have suggested the manual conversion except your original post was about changing carbs for better fuel economy. And the work scared me as well, which is why I didn't do it! Went to the local transmission shop, and asked what I needed. Got a laundry list, and went to a salvage yard. I bought all the parts at the salvage yard, bought new clutch, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing at the FLAPS, and took everything to the transmission shop, along with the truck. Went back two days later, and drove home the truck. Shop accepted the used C-6 in full payment for the labor. Jon.

And, while many do not like them, a less expensive method of improving fuel economy is to swap in a 4-speed manual transmission. Of course, mileage will vary with your driving habits. Not a Chevrolet, but my 390 went from 17->22 when the C-6 was replaced with a 4-speed manual (highway mileage). Does require a different set of pedals, and some additional linkage, but these can often be found in a salvage yard. Jon.

Sometimes this happens. Many of the parts will interchange: Pump piston, "top hat", both check valves. Power piston plug Float Possibly interchange Power jet pushrod, high speed bleed, both idle tubes, choke and throttle valves Jon.