carbking

Information from "The Motor": http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=232331 Since the carburetor is listed as a Wheeler Schebler, it would be either a model D or model L; with a very high probability that it is a model D. Jon.

Seems like virtually every carburetor question the last week has been Schebler. I have attempted to answer what I can, but I also have a request. Over the last 50 years, I have bought all of the Schebler literature I could find, but still missing a lot. The various motorcycle carburetors are fairly well documented in a Schebler motorcycle book dated 1928 (it has been reprinted). Since I do nothing with these carbs, I have supplied what I had to a company that services the Schebler (and other) motorcycle carbs. I am not really looking for more motorcycle information. The Schebler models S, T, and U are fairly well documented in the Schebler car & truck books. What I am looking for is information on Schebler Models A, AT, D, HD, L, and R. The A, AT, D, and HD are primarily used on stationary engines, low speed marine engines, some trucks, and tractors. If a book on these exists, I have never seen one in 50 years of searching. There is a very little information on these in the car & truck books. The Models L and R were used primarily on early cars and trucks. These are somewhat documented in the early Schebler books, but no differentiation if an application is original or aftermarket. So what do I need? (1) If a Schebler tractor book exists, an original or a copy would be wonderful!!! (2) Photocopies of a carburetor page in early (pre-1920) car & truck factory parts books (eg. Studebaker used the Schebler model R). (3) Photocopies of a carburetor page in pre-1930 tractor factory parts books that cover the A, AT, D, & HD models. Will gladly pay for copies (or original Schebler literature I don't have) and will then add this information to the database on my website, and try to answer more Schebler questions. Should you have something, please contact me. There are many other obscure makes of carburetors that I would like to further document, but that can be a different thread sometime. Thanks to all. Jon.

Wrong numbers, the "SV" numbers are casting numbers, and totally meaningless. Basically, a number for a casting "blank" BEFORE it was machined. Used internally by Schebler, but after machining, worthless. What you need is a stamped (recessed, not raised) number beginning with SX. Once you have that, you should be able to find the application on our website. Have to give some credit to Schebler, as they did stamp the identification number on their carburetors. Most companies did not. Jon.

The Schebler FA series was, at least according to the Schebler literature, strictly aftermarket. What instructions there are: turn the high speed needle out 4 or 5 turns and then adjust based on how the car runs. Unless you are a collector of model T Ford carburetors, and want a video of each running the engine; I would suggest there are much better aftermarket carbs for a model T. (like a Stromberg model OF). Remember the cliche "fits to a T" is rooted in all of the aftermarket "stuff" available for the model T Ford (SOME of it was actually an improvement on Ford, a lot of it wasn't). Good luck. Jon.

No, but thank you for asking. Jon.

Schebler lists the SX-302 as: (1) 1928 Chandler model 137 (2) Universal replacement model What does this mean? I don't know. Speculating, possibly Schebler built more of the SX-302 than Chandler purchased (I believe Chandler discontinued production in mid-1929) and offered the rest as universal replacement carburetors??? Also, again speculating, since the 137 is the same 340 CID engine as the Royal model 85 of 1929, it is very possible, even probable, that the SX-302 was held over from 1928 to 1929, and Chandler did not tell Schebler with the scrambling being done by the automotive companies at this time. I did have a wee bit more information in my database on Chandler that I have now uploaded to the website: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/PkitC.htm#PCHANDLER And as you may have been told, Schebler is not my favorite brand of carburetor (it probably doesn't make the top 50!). While originality is very important when showing cars; if it were mine, and I wanted to tour with the car, or even drive it locally, I would replace it with an equivilent Carter 289s, Stromberg SF-3 or Zenith 63AW12. I do make kits for the SX-302. Jon.

Quote Aaron "The other carb has a 1 1/16" venturi; that one is (I believe) a 725s, so they are NOT the same casting numbers. From everything I've been able to find, however, all WCDs should have the same accelerator pumps, but it sounds like it's not that simple! " End quote. Aaron - Carter type WCD carbs were used on engines from 195 CID to 427 CID. The larger engines require a larger pump shot. Carter accomplished different pump shots by: (a) different diameter pumps, and (b) different length pumps. Changing either changes the volume of fuel in the pump well to be displaced by the pump. As mentioned previously, this was a tuning "trick" used by the racers, and some enthusiasts with deep pockets raced Allards with Cad engines, using WCD carbs. Jon.

Wilbur - see my answer under your other post. Jon.

Victor - X2 on the comments above by George; but the information you requested: Marvel type TD number 10-1578. Jon.

Actually, no, my references are mixed to missing on this model. Information I have: The Schebler books (I have several versions, all going back several years, with the latest printing in 1931) do not mention the Chandler Royal 85. An aftermarket book "Specifications of American Cars 1920-1929" state the 1929 Chandler Royal 85 was a 340 CID 8 using a Schebler. Which Schebler is not mentioned, and I have found numerous errors in this book. The 8th Edition of Hollanders (I believe the first issue of Hollanders to list carburetors) lists the 1929 75 and 85 as using the Tillotson V-3A. Early Hollander carburetor information is not overly reliable either. The Tillotson factory master book lists the V-3A as being used on the model 75; but no mention of the model 85. Since the 75 is a significantly smaller engine; using the same carb on both is not overly realistic. Now, speculation: Assuming the 340 CID is correct for the model 85, then a Schebler model S-3 (nominal 1 1/2 inch carb) sounds reasonable, as the next largest Chandler would be the model 35 which Schebler shows as a 331 CID using a Schebler S-3 model SX-304. Schebler model S carburetors are identified with a stamped (not raised) SX (not SV) number. This number will be stamped on a horizonal "boss" located approximately midway from top to bottom on the end of the model S opposite of the airvalve. If you will post this number, I can determine if I have information regarding the unit. Often, a stall off of idle as you describe, can be attributed to a weak airvalve spring. Since I don't know what you have, I cannot offer a rebuilding kit with the correct spring However, you might try removing the lower plug for the airvalve spring, and inserting a washer under the spring. This should have the effect of a stronger spring, and may alleviate your stall. Please post the number on the end of your Schebler, and good luck with the adjustment. Jon.

BE CAREFUL! 49-164 is the part number for the upper part of the pump stem, NOT THE PUMP! It was used with both diameters. Carter 725s takes pump 64-126s Carter 2179s takes pump 64-159s Jon.

Pilgrim: Sign on to Ebay Look up auction number 252570906298 Click on the 4th picture Move the mouse over the picture to enlarge the picture Observe the fillister airhorn screw closest to you and to your left. Just to the right of the screw, you can faintly make out the stamped 7. The rest of the number is hidden by the pump arm. Sorry that my camera skills don't allow me to take a better picture of one of my carbs. Jon.

"Hi Jon you probably think is this man an idiot ? Feeling one at present as still can't locate stamped numbers ," Not at all. Everything is difficult until you see it the first time, and these numbers can be very difficult to see. I am photographically challenged, so trying to paint a picture using words. The numbers are on the top flat surface of the top casting. They are stamped with metal marking stamps, so recessed into the casting. The carburetor is wider from side to side than from front to back. You want to look on the top of the two sides, probably the side opposite the choke housing, although I have seen the number stamped on the choke housing side. Stromberg codified their numbers in the format ccc-nnna ccc is a number from 1 to 268 that represents the code Stromberg used for the company. A few common codes 2=Ford, 3=Dodge, 4=Chrysler, 7=Buick, 10=Packard, 205=Cadillac. nnn is a number from 1 to about 300 that represents the number of different carburetors sold to the company represented by ccc. a, if present, and it isn't always, represents the engineering change status for the unit in questions. So, some examples: 7-96 would be the first production AAVB-267 used on the 1954 Buick 7-96A would be the AAVB-267 used on the 1954 Buick WITH ONE MINOR ENGINEERING CHANGE 7-96B would be the AAVB-267 used on the 1954 Buick WITH TWO MINOR ENGINEERING CHANGES. 7-102 would be the AAVB-267 used on the 1955 Buick with no engineering changes. In the for what its worth category, Buick used 8 different type AAVB-267 carburetors (not counting engineering changes), which use 7 different rebuilding kits. If my word picture still doesn't work, give me a call: 673-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.

Do the bodies have the same casting numbers? The first carb is marked 1 3/16 for the venturii, but cannot read that on the second body. Jon.

Over the years, Carter has used at least 5 different diameter accelerator pumps, and many different lengths and articulations. One "trick" racers used with Carter carbs was to bore the pump cylinder oversize; and use a shorter and larger diameter pump. Both the larger diameter pump well and the shorter pump would increase the pump stroke. Very rarely seen, but occasionally..... Also, this trick occasionally used to "save" a correct carburetor with pitted pump cylinder. Another way is to bore the cylinder oversize and insert a brass sleeve. Then original parts will work. Jon.

The number is STAMPED with metal marking stamps (a recessed number). It may be found by looking at a very clean top casting (airhorn) looking straight down at the top along one of the sides. If Buick, if will be in the format 7-nnn(l). nnn is a number between 1 an 200. l (if present) is a letter that signifies the engineering status of the carburetor. AAUVB is a type or model. A little more informative than saying Stromberg carburetor, but certainly insufficient to get the correct carburetor rebuilding kit. Jon.

My information shows Rayfield type G-3. Jon.

Another thought: If in fact E15+ becomes the standard of the land, perhaps we would have better luck lobbying AACA to allow certain modifications in the fuel, and possibly the electrical systems. It might be worked out that a vehicle in a judged show would not lose points if the correct components were displaced at the same time. Example: a 1931 Packard 845 might be allowed to have a Stromberg SF-4 on the engine if the Detroit Lubricator C31786 were also displayed. Just a thought. And Dave, I really like the Asimov quotation! Jon.

Willis - in most, certainly not all, cases it is possible to have a "driving" carburetor. In the case of single barrel updraft carburetors, there are a number of different carbs available that were designed as universal replacements, with "looser" than stock calibrations, and an externally adjustable main metering jet. The externally adjustable jet means that with a little thought, the carburetor may be calibrated for even higher than 15 percent ethanol. Examples would be Carter BB series, Stromberg SF and SFM series, Zenith 63 and 263 series, as well as the current Zenith 68 and 267 carburetors in small sizes only. The two-barrel updraft carbs present a problem for which I have no solution. Concerning downdraft carbs: Single barrel universals with the adjustable main metering jets were available from Stromberg (the BX series); and a few are still available from Zenith (the 228 series). Many two-barrel downdraft carbs may be replaced with Carter two-barrels from the 1950's (WCD, and WGD series) with metering rod technology. The same is true for most four-barrel downdraft carburetors WCFB and AFB series). While not as easy to recalibrate as the adjustable main metering jets, the metering rod technology allows the carburetor to be recalibrated by removing one or two screws holding a cover, and removing and replacing the metering rod(s) with rod(s) calibrated for a different mix. We have been making these rods for years for enthusiasts that live/travel at higher altitude. And while I don't recommend this procedure, to prove a point, I once changed the metering rods on an engine while the engine was running! Of course, it was running on the idle circuit, and the metering rods calibrate the main circuit. An issue might be the fuel delivery system, as more of the ethanol fuel would be required. Another issue might be starting the engine on higher ratios of ethanol. Not my area of expertise. Someone else can figure out these possible issues. But my guess would be, that if the government wishes this to happen, it will happen; and we will just have to figure out how to deal with it! Jon.

The "smoke" test or the "propane" test or the "WD-40" test WILL ALWAYS FAIL!!!! Note my previous post on clearance. If there is no clearance, the "smoke" test will pass, but the throttle will lock up when hot. 0.006 inch is enough for a little "wiggle". Lots of enthusiasts/hobbyists have dial indicators. Just find a friend who has one, and measure the clearance. And if the throttle shaft is worn, and the throttle body is not worn, installing bushings will not change the symptoms. Jon.

Doug - virtually NONE of these carbs with the cast iron throttle body ever wear sufficiently to require bushings. Occasionally, a VERY high mileage unit will require a new throttle shaft (the shaft will wear long before the throttle body). SOME CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE THROTTLE SHAFT AND THROTTLE BODY IS REQUIRED, otherwise the shaft would seize when hot. Design tolerance was 0.004 ~ 0.006 inch from the factory. Wear of an additional 0.003 (to a maximum of 0.009) is OK. Easy to measure with a dial indicator. How did you determine that the throttle body needs bushing? Jon.

Mark - noticed you posted this under "Buick". Note that this carb is Chrysler, not Buick. Definately worth the money for a Chrysler guy. And not mine either. Jon.

The big problem with the main-jet plugs on the Stromberg EE-3 (and other type EE carbs) are a pair of needle-nosed pliers!!! The Stromberg jets require a special tool, which is quite easy to make, but obviously not as easy as grabbing a pair of needle-nose pliers and ruining the threads. When we were still restoring carbs, we finally had to machine new plugs with a slightly oversized thread to save some of these carbs! I guess the real problem is the design. Stromberg did not have the foresight to envision the lack of talent of future "mechanics". Jon.

Found that some time ago I had made .pdf files of the Stromberg type M instructions. 13.5 megabytes, so don't want to post here, but if you post your email address (or call me with it) I will email you the .pdf of the Stromberg M. Jon.

A couple of things: (1) Stromberg was a manufacturer of carburetors, and (opinion) one of the top 3. The M series carburetors were excellent carburetors for the day. Be careful if you purchase a "parts" carburetor, as the M-2 has several different internal venturii for use on different size engines (in fact, Autocar used several different M-2 carburetors). (2) I have never cranked an Autocar; however, I have cranked lots of tractors, import cars, etc. I was taught at a very early age NEVER to wrap my thumb around the handle!!!! Have never had an issue because of this; and probably old enough my cranking days are finished. Jon.