carbking

Kingston model L carbs were used on LOTS of tractors. Going to be virtually impossible to determine the exact application. Best to just take pictures of all sides, and measure the center-to-center spacing on the two mounting holes. As to value, if the spacing is less than 3 inches, don't quit your day job. The larger ones (3 5/16 c-c or 3 9/16 c-c) will bring a little money. Jon.

This link may give you more understanding on the use of electric pumps: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Electric_fuel_pumps_and_old_cars.htm Jon.

The issue exists with some Rochester 4-GC (4-Jet) and Carter WCFB carburetors. THERE ARE FACTORY SERVICE BULLETINS ON BOTH! There is a vacuum passage that runs vertically from the throttle body through the bowl to the airhorn to activate the automatic choke. If/when the airhorn gasket deteriorates in the area of the passage between the bowl and airhorn, fuel slosh will be pulled into the vacuum passage on hard left turns, causing a temporary rich hesitation or stall. Both Rochester and Carter offered service "kits" (a set of instructions, a bushing, and a gasket). THIS IS A MACHINE SHOP OPERATION! The passage in the bowl is milled slightly oversize to a depth of (forgot exactly) maybe 1/8 inch and the bushing is pressed into the passage. The passage in the airhorn is likewise milled but slightly larger oversize so the bushing pressed into the bowl will slip into the oversize area in the airhorn. The redesigned airhorn gasket has a slightly larger hole to accomodate the bushing. The bushing prevents the fuel slosh from entering into the vacuum passage. Jon

As 1939_Buick suggested, before totally giving up on the carburetor, I would suggest thoroughly checking the ignition system and the fuel delivery system. Having said that, the BB series Carter carburetors used by Chrysler were among the worst, if not the absolute worst carburetors Carter built. The only real redeeming feature of these carburetors were that they were among the least expensive carburetors made during this era! I have linked to a section of our website with Carter service documentation. The ONLY carburetor that Carter felt necessary to issue a troubleshooting document was the BB series. All are published with authority of Carter and may be downloaded and used. Link: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carter_service.htm The BB series from 1933 to 1938 were very bad. The BB series was redesigned in 1939, and improved from very bad to just bad (without the very). Service replacement BB carburetors for 1933~1938 vehicles in all series were issued. The service carb for the DeSoto (and Chrysler), as your research indicated, is the E6P5. However, Stromberg also offered several different aftermarket replacement carburetors for these engines. If the car were mine, and originality was not of the utmost importance, I would yank the BB series for the garage shelf, and replace it with a Stromberg for driving enjoyment. The Stromberg BXV-3 part number 16-12 was designed specifically for the DeSoto 228 CID 6 cylinder of 1937 and 1938. This unit might be difficult to find, as it was specific for the DeSoto; however Dodge used a number of BXV-3 carburetors in the late 1930's and early 1940's on their 218 and 230 CID engines. I would suggest looking for one from a Dodge 230, as the displacement is almost identical. But check ignition and fuel delivery FIRST! Jon.

Came to this thread late, having trouble with the search timing out since the last upgrade. The link below explains some of the 1937-1938 Buick carb issues: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Buick_1937_1938_carburetors.htm Yes, enough enthusiasts have had problems with these Delco chokes to warrant an article on my website! Jon.

Thank you. Jon.

Having problems with the search function. About 60 percent of the time, I get the following error. Sometimes can do the exact same search, and it will work. Search term I am using is carb Jon. ERROR The request could not be satisfied. CloudFront attempted to establish a connection with the origin, but either the attempt failed or the origin closed the connection. Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront) Request ID: VQKx693-WTtsjhA4m7TphKzeLXR1YwvYNlyq7zbbap4dZiORwni8Tw==

A few comments about the compound carburetion: (1) Buick was experimenting with multiple carburetors somewhat earlier than 1941. Some of the "in-house" Stromberg documentation shows Buick interested in dual ONE-BARREL carburetors as early as 1935. (2) The compound carburetion as produced by Buick was really pioneering in the field (some pioneering is good, others less so). While Buick was certainly not the first American manufacturer to use more than one carburetor on an engine, as far as I can determine, Buick was the first to use "progressive" linkage with multiple carburetion. (3) It didn't work well! OK, before my time, but my Dad told me that fuel economy was horrible, and during WWII, fuel was rationed. According to Dad, ALL of the 1941 Buicks in our area (north central Missouri) got retrofitted with a single manifold and carburetor. I have seen this since, with many customers and prospective customers wishing to refit their Buicks with compound carburetion. The cost of the single manifold and carb was insignificant when fuel to run the compound carburetion simply was NOT available. (4) As mentioned by Willis in a post above, the success of compound carburetion is due to better average fuel density distribution among the cylinders. For this reason, we started selling and suggesting to others to leave the original compound carburetion to those that were showing their vehicles; and to use two primary carburetors with solid linkage for driving. So far, all of the feedback has been positive from those who have done so. The use of 40 series post-WWII single carbs (either Carter or Stromberg) on 60 series engines works exceptionally well, and these carbs are much less expensive than the correct compound carburetion carbs. For the 40 series engines, there are some Carter WCD's used by A.M.C. that work well, and again are not overly expensive, but obviously, there is no Buick starter switch on the A.M.C. carbs. Personally, I like the tunability of the Carters over the Strombergs, but not everyone has a lathe capable of machining metering rods for different calibrations. (5) Finally, while intake manifold design is NOT my area of expertise, I believe that an intake with more rounded runners than the factory intake would significantly improve performance. REPEAT, not my area of expertise, just my opinion. For those with aluminum welding capability that might be interested in attempting this, think thick aluminum electrical conduit. The conduit is available in a number of different degree bends. Several customers with antique cars wanting to use multiple carburetion have used conduit in this manner. Jon.

John - I have a 440s that is totally restored (recolored, replated, etc.) available; and if you don't need castings, probably have the parts you need for the 419s. Also have several 440s cores, and one 440s new old stock. 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.

If you have either Microsoft Access or Microsoft Excel, send me an email, and I will send you a copy of the listings in my database for Hershell Spillman engines (102 entries). Jon.

Never will forget my first Chickasha early meet. It was the very first one. Took a lot of scarce early stuff (Caddy, Packard, etc.). Found out it was a glorified Ford T/A meet. Didn't sell a single thing! Towards noon of the final day, left my Dad to mind the space (we had walkie-talkies to communicate) and walked around. Found a elderly gentleman (in retrospect, maybe close to the same age I am now ) with two tables of carburetors. They had been painted black over everything, throttle shafts wobbled, etc,, and each was very carefully identified, and in my mind, grossly overpriced. They were ALL common Ford T and A carbs except one, which was tagged as "non-Ford carburetor - $1.00". The carb was a new old stock Zenith 105DC. I didn't even attempt to negotiate! I just gave him a dollar, and left! So the net for the trip was better than hoped for! Jon.

You didn't, just giving others an opportunity to answer. It was used on a 1915 Jeffery 2 ton. The carb was serviced by replacing with a Stromberg M-2. This is truly a one make, one year, one model carburetor. The Stromberg K series was a transition model between the older glass bowl models, and the newer type L, M, and O models. Only a handful were produced. Jon

There are a number of aftermarket carburetors which are either readily available or may be available if you look. I recommend 4, depending on where you live, and other considerations: (1) modern Zenith (cheap, but has no power circuit, doesn't work overly well in hilly terrain) (2) older cast iron Zenith (vacuum accelerator pump) (3) Carter BB-1 (mechanical accelerator pump) (4) Stromberg SF-2 (vacuum accelerator pump) Each of these series have multiple carburetors, so you have to know which one to pick. Personally, I much prefer the vacuum accelerator pump over the mechanical one, but others differ in this opinion. Also, don't remember when Pontiac went to the pressure fuel pump. The fuel inlet orifice in the carb MUST be calibrated to the type of fuel delivery system. Other than the above, off the top of my head: Linkert, Rayfield, Marvel Schebler (sold under several different "brands", Schebler, Winfield, and Tillotson all made aftermarket carbs, and there are probably others. Jon

Lots of possibilities, the numbers tell the story. Numbers are STAMPED on the edge of the mounting flange. One example: ECZ-9510-B List R-1161-A Jon

Chris - thanks for posting the ad. I know better, but will ask anyway, do you have any Wilcox-Bennett or just plain Bennett sales or service books? I have no record of one ever being used on an automobile or truck, but they were used on quite a few tractors. Thanks. Jon.

If the tag is unreadable, virtually impossible to determine exact application. Try the tag again. Things to try: (1) wire brush, followed by pencil eraser. (2) hold a strong light almost at the same level as the tag, shining across the tag so it throws shadows. if (2) above doesn't work, then: (2) use a felt tip pen ON THE SIDE OF THE POINT to coat the top of the tag, leaving the recessed numbers open. The fact that the tag is beat to pieces probably means the fuel valve (a.k.a. needle and seat) is or has leaked. Some feel it necessary to punish the carburetor with a large hammer rather than fixing the problem when it leaks. Of course, one can TAP the side of the carb with the plastic handle of a screwdriver to free a temporarily sticking valve; but physical punishment seems to allieviate the owner's frustrations! Jon.

A long time ago, when I had less experience dealing with individuals that do not share my values; I received a telephone call from one of the satelite channel car shows that then actually fixed up older cars. They had heard that our carburetor rebuilding kits were the best available, and if we would supply them with a rebuilding kit, they would mention "their friends at the carburetor shop" as a supplier. Was a fairly inexpensive kit, so I said OK, where do I send it. They gave the address, and I shipped the kit. About two weeks later, I received a contract from their legal department thanking me for the kit and informing me that the credit would be rolled at the end of the show with the other credits, but if I signed the contract AND send it back to them along with a money order for $2500. that the guy rebuilding the carburetor would mention us at the time of rebuilding. We still had a wood stove at the time, so I did get some use out of that contract! I never even watched for the episode. I have no idea, nor do I care, what they said. Its all about the money! Jon.

Pilgrim - I do remember, and thanks again. Jon.

Padgett - I did mention the car marque thing with the three examples (Cadillac, Oakland, and Packard). I would guess there are others; although I am aware of some of the car marques that did actually make their own carbs. We will never know for sure. Good reference material printed before 1912 is virtually non-existant, and a lot printed after that time is suspect. A researcher just does the best one can, and tries to cross-check references. Some of the carb makes (ie Buick) were separate from the car manufacturer. The Buick carb was not used on Buicks; rather it was used by Briscoe and Hackett. Eagle was used by Maxwell, and there are others. Jon.

OK - going to end the "contest". Since I developed the contest and the rules, that makes me the judge, and there is no appeal!!! Since no one stated they could name a certain number, will only award one carburetion history expert attaboy, and that goes to Padgett for his guess of 20 different, which is the closest to my "official" list of 91 (there may be more, but this is all I could find in the last 50 years). Carburetors used as O.E. on US produced cars and trucks prior to WWII, at least my list. If I counted correctly, 91 different Semi-major players are starred (*) Major players are double starred (**) A & D A.W.T. AMAC American Amplex Ansted Apperson B.D. Bell Breeze * Bracke (a division of Holley?), experimental production carb on 1933 Ford Buick (not used on Buicks) C.R.G. Cadillac Cameron Carter ** Chadwick Chandler Groves (2 unhappy Stromberg engineers, eventually bought by Holley) Chapin D.A.C. Detroit Lubricator * Duryea E.M.F. Eagle Elmore Ensign * Fiat Fletcher Franklin G & A H & N Harroun Heath Heitger Holley Brothers (Earl & George, became Holley) * I.H.C. Johnson Jonz K & D Keeton Kingston ** Lafayette Lenox Locomobile Longuemare (imported by Holley Bros BEFORE Holley carb, sold to Packard) Lozier Marvel (later merged with Schebler) * Master (rotary) Maxwell Mayer (some automobile, many more marine) Miller (rotary) Motorette Muir Newcomb Oakland Oldsmobile Packard Panhard Peerless Penberthy * Phianna Pierce Planhard Pope Rayfield ** Reicherback Reo Richard Roader Rolls-Royce (Springfield Rolls) S.U. (Skinners Union, British-made, but imported on a couple of American vehicles) Sauer Schebler (a.k.a. Wheeler Schebler, later merged with Marvel) ** Scoe SGV Shakespear Simplex Standard Stavers Stearns Stewart (purchased by Detroit Lubricator) * Stoddard-Dayton Stromberg ** Sultan Swan Tillotson * White Yale Zenith ** Zephyr Doing any listing such as the above is somewhat of a “slippery slope” as follows: (1) Some car/truck manufacturers list a carburetor as their own in factory literature. Subsequent research finds that the carbs were specifically made for them by a different company; albeit sometimes with the car/truck manufacturers engineers working hand in glove with the carburetor company engineers. Examples of this practice would include: Cadillac (made by Johnson), Oakland (made by Schebler), and Packard (made by Detroit Lubricator). (2) In my opinion, the two “best” aftermarket reference sources tend to be the original carburetor manufacturers sales books (an actual sale of a carburetor to a car/truck company was made); and Branham Insurance Guide for model information (allegedly, questionnaires were sent to and filled out by the car/truck manufacturers). A problem can arise with the carburetor sales data in that a “sale” may be made in one year for a model coming out the next. Also, some carb companies such as Rayfield and Schebler did not differentiate between carburetors for original equipment use or aftermarket use. Thankfully, most, especially Stromberg and Zenith did make this distinction. And some companies had carb books for different groups of carburetors. Example: Schebler listed virtually no tractors in their passenger/truck book and none in their marine book; the only Kingston book I have ever found listed tractors, but not cars and trucks. Literature this early is exceptionally difficult to obtain. (3) The absolute best source obviously is the car/truck manufacturers parts manuals; however, these can also cause confusion, as the unit presented in the parts manual MAY be a service replacement unit instead of an original unit. This practice has continued even into the 1960’s. One tractor manufacturer had so much trouble with a certain brand of carburetor, they issued a recall and replace with a different manufacturer, and all reference to the original was removed from parts/service literature the following year. The only way to know the original existed was to have the parts/service manual from the actual year of production. Finally, there were two reasons for posting this thread: (1) I thought some readers might enjoy the diversion (2) I am hopeful that some “specialists” in a specific marque might be sufficiently interested to peruse my listings and offer suggestions as to omissions and errors. I have exhausted my resources for my database, and it can only become more complete and more accurate through the aid of others. I do have many corrections in my database to upload to the web listings as I have time. The listings are as follows: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Passengerkits.htm http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Truckkits.htm Hope you enjoyed the diversion. Jon.

Bernie - my term for these alleged mechanics is "Dr. Goodpliers". As you know, he is the evil twin of "Mr. Goodwrench"! Oh, and how would they fit a box-end wrench on a fuel line??? Jon.

The pump should have a 4 digit or 5 digit number STAMPED into the edge of the flange where the pump mounts to the engine block. This is the identification number for the pump, and should be supplied to the repair kit vendor. Personally, if I needed a fuel pump rebuilding kit I would contact "Then & Now Automotive" in South Weymouth, MA; but then I am located in the USA. I do not know what sources you may have in Cyprus. Then & Now are actual manufacturers, and produce top quality kits that are correct for the application. Jon.

Rochester was certainly aware of the inlet thread issue; as the initial fitting of three threads was upgraded to five threads, and finally to eight threads, all in an attempt to prevent damage from changing the fuel filter. Rochester also issued the following instructions for changing the filter: No joke, this is a factory Rochester bulletin! Note the side inlet, so either a Chevrolet or Cadillac carb. Jon.

Will be closing this at noon today; anyone else wish to make any guesses? Jon.

Em Tee - Back in the day, Rochester offered replacement fuel bowls. To satisfy my curiosity, I once took a new replacement bowl for a carburetor for which there was no demand, out of the box, and clamped it in my bench vise, where it was easy to get to without any possibility of cross-threading the fuel inlet fitting. I then "changed the filter" using the proper box end wrench, and a torque wrench when installing to eliminate any possibility of overtightening the thread. I was able to "change the filter" nine times before the bowl filter threads were junk! This is one of the "gotchas" of the Q-Jet. Eliminating the need to change the fuel filter will greatly increase the life of the carburetor. And with the garbage fuel of today, the filter needs to be changed more often than recommended. Willis - as I recall, the secondary cams were made slightly thinner to prevent sticking. And always a good idea to change the airvalve spring at the same time. As to the power piston spring you mentioned, these come in the better kits, and should always be changed during a rebuild. Jon.